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davecom · Jul 29, 2003, 11:47 AM

Hello everyone,
I currently own a G4 500 MHZ Single Processor, AGP graphics, Radeon Mac Edition, 640 MB RAM, 60 gigs hard disk space.

I am trying to decide whether to get a new G5 (1.8 ghz) for $2200 with academic discount or to upgrade to a 1.2 ghz G4 via Sonnet for $529. I will be getting a new Mac in two years regardless of the decision. The $2200 is expensive for me, but I could afford it with money left over for new Microsoft Office, Panther, etc.

However, since I'm getting a new machine in two years anyway, does it make more sense to just get the upgrade for the time being? I mean my main concern is programming, doing some Unix stuff, using iApps and playing some games. When I say games I mean things like AOE2, Sim City 4, and I want to try out Warrior Kings and America's Army. Will I still be able to play new games on a G4 1.2 ghz 1 year from now?

Things to keep in mind: G4 only has 100 mhz system bus; I don't mind the G5 being a rev A; I could max out RAM on G4 pretty cheaply; I could use the extra money from not buying the G5 to buy a cheap wintel box for some radio serving stuff I do - http://www.merrickradio.com/ ; I could get some nice software with the extra money

So, if you were me, what would you do? Save the cash on the G5 and get some nice extras, or splurge on the G5?

MindFad · Jul 29, 2003, 12:06 PM

You'll be much happier with the 1.8, especially in two years when you get a new machine. Go for it. And if you sell it, it's going to sell for a lot more than a 1.2 upgraded machine.

davecom · Jul 29, 2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
You'll be much happier with the 1.8, especially in two years when you get a new machine. Go for it. And if you sell it, it's going to sell for a lot more than a 1.2 upgraded machine.

I forgot to mention, the G4 cannot be sold either way. It's the property of a university, long story. Bottom line - I'm not getting any money out of it.

turboSPE · Jul 29, 2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by davecom:
I forgot to mention, the G4 cannot be sold either way. It's the property of a university, long story. Bottom line - I'm not getting any money out of it.

In that case, have you checked with your university about their policy on upgrades? I know our ITS department never supports upgrading hardware beyond RAM.

turboSPE

davecom · Jul 29, 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by turboSPE:
In that case, have you checked with your university about their policy on upgrades? I know our ITS department never supports upgrading hardware beyond RAM.

turboSPE

Thanks, but it's not the situation you think it is. Without going into a long story, the bottom line is the machine can't be sold. Now back to deciding whether to upgrade or get a G5...

awcopus · Jul 29, 2003, 08:58 PM

Wouldn't buy any upgrade cards until Panther is out and vendors are selling boards that are Panther compatible.

The 1.8G5 sounds perfect for you. Big speed boost for your gaming life, and more than enough for the other things you dabble in. But, can you keep the G5? If you can keep it, all the better. Otherwise, why are YOU the one paying for it? Anyhoo... in your shoes, I'd go for the 1.8.

Good luck.

davecom · Jul 29, 2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by awcopus:
Wouldn't buy any upgrade cards until Panther is out and vendors are selling boards that are Panther compatible.

The 1.8G5 sounds perfect for you. Big speed boost for your gaming life, and more than enough for the other things you dabble in. But, can you keep the G5? If you can keep it, all the better. Otherwise, why are YOU the one paying for it? Anyhoo... in your shoes, I'd go for the 1.8.

Good luck. :D

Hey, thanks for the reply. Yes, the G5 will be purchased by me, for me, and to me. But, what I was getting at before is that since I'm buying a new machine in 2 years, what use will I have for the G5 then? Actually now that I think about it I could always end up upgrading the G5 with its much better bus, hmmmm.

awcopus · Jul 29, 2003, 10:39 PM

Dave, forget about the future for the moment. Focus on what you need right now. It seems like the G5 1.8 would really suit your needs right now (whenever this thing comes out in the next 4-8 weeks). That's where your focus should be. In two years, this 1.8 will either become a server, you could give it to your parents/loved ones so you can iChat with them, you could sell it on eBay to reduce the purchase price of your new machine....worry about that then. For now, enjoy a kickass ride on a new G5.

Arkham_c · Jul 30, 2003, 07:14 AM

The real question is, do you have to buy the upgrade yourself, or will the university pick up the tab for it? If the university will buy it for you, then that is the route to go.

If not, then either make due with what you have or buy a new machine. You can always sell the machine on ebay in 2 years, but the upgrade card will be worthless in 2 years.

davecom · Jul 30, 2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
The real question is, do you have to buy the upgrade yourself, or will the university pick up the tab for it? If the university will buy it for you, then that is the route to go.

If not, then either make due with what you have or buy a new machine. You can always sell the machine on ebay in 2 years, but the upgrade card will be worthless in 2 years.

You have good points about selling the G5 in two years. The only past Mac I sold was an original LC and I got 100 quid(when I lived in England) for it. So I never really thought of that route. It's a good idea. I would have to pay for the upgrade card for the G4. So it seems like most people think I should get the G5. The funny part is I honestly don't find my current G4 that slow(Except in Tropico). Do G5 owners get Panther free?

osiris · Jul 30, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by davecom:
The funny part is I honestly don't find my current G4 that slow(Except in Tropico). Do G5 owners get Panther free?

I imagine Panther would be a free upgrade, unless Apple plans on shafting all those newborn G5s.

A good point mentioned was whether upgrade cards will be compatible with Panther. I was gong to buy a new G5, but all the software I need for OS X would put the price well over 10k. I'd be happy with a 1.42 G4 for now and wait until Rev b, but now it's wait and see. It would not be a good thing if Panther breaks all the upgrade cards.

my 2 : Tropico is a POS coz it's frustratingly slow. And usually just when you finally have a nice dictatorship going.

emdash · Jul 30, 2003, 03:24 PM

I dunno... my plan is to limp along on my Sawtooth 450 until the Rev. B G5s come out (hopefully with duals across the line, or alternatively a cheaper midrange machine). Keep in mind that Panther is reputed to speed up old hardware significantly.

Of course, the next group of G5s ought to be here in 6-9 months, which is a lot shorter than two years, so I don't know if this addresses the original poster's situation.

davecom · Jul 30, 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by emdash:
I dunno... my plan is to limp along on my Sawtooth 450 until the Rev. B G5s come out (hopefully with duals across the line, or alternatively a cheaper midrange machine).

Well, the way I see it, you can keep limping along, waiting for the right time to buy, but if you wait too long, it ends up not being worth the waiting time when you could've been enjoying a new machine. My personal experience with Rev A products from Apple has been good(iPod, Mac LC original, first set of G4s)

awcopus · Jul 30, 2003, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by emdash:
I dunno... my plan is to limp along on my Sawtooth 450 ...

No. No that's no good. I mean, if you literally perceive yourself as "limping" when you're working on a Mac, then you've held on to your current machine too long and you've got to act.

If money's tight, I guess you have to hold off. Otherwise, you would see such a huge speed boost if you went over to eBay or smalldog.com and and bought a decent dual processor G4. Would certainly make the next 6-9 months feel better than limping.

If limping was sarcastic or a figure of speech, disregard above and keep on truckin'. Otherwise, get yourself out of this rut as soon as you can. Life is simply too short.

Leonard · Jul 30, 2003, 07:59 PM

Davecom, what type of video card do you have in the single G4 500? If you want to play current games, you'll probably want to upgrade the graphics card too. The HD and memory look fine.

I think I'd recommend the G5 1.8Ghz machine. It's faster, has a much better bus, and you get a new video card. I'd recommend the G5 1.6Ghz due to your budget, but I don't really like the 1.6Ghz G5.

emdash, yeah the rev.B G5's will be ANNOUNCED in 6-7 months, but you'll have to WAIT another 1-2 months for it to be delivered.

davecom · Jul 30, 2003, 08:14 PM

Well, gaming is not my main concern, since I do have a gamecube. But you guys have made me lean toward the G5. I've thought about it and I really don't need a dual processor machine, so waiting for the next rev of the G5s is not for me. I figure it's now or wait two years. And I don't want to wait two years. So yeah, I'll be getting the G5 1.8 most likely. Now, would you guys opt for the Radeon 9600 ($45 more) or stick with the FX? Sucks that the Radeon still only has 64 mb VRAM. Also, should I stick with the superdrive, or get the combo($180 less(I may get a camcorder, but I could make video cds right?))? What about the modem($29 less(I doubt i'll use it))?

emdash · Jul 30, 2003, 08:19 PM

If money's tight, I guess you have to hold off. [...]

If limping was sarcastic or a figure of speech, disregard above and keep on truckin'.

Um... all of the above.

There's no two ways about it: everything would be Snappier for me with a new machine -- *any* new machine. But that's been true since at least early 2001, and my spending priorities have been elsewhere throughout that time. And my computing experience is perfectly pleasant, under the circumstances.

I was just trying to point out that there are two possible reasons that I know of to wait: Panther's supposed speed boost for old hardware (not a terribly compelling reason, but it is there), and more attractive low- and mid-range machines in rev.B of the G5s. (Right now, the dual-2 gig machine has the best price/performance ratio, but it's way way WAY out of my price range. I could probably afford the 1.6, but I'd rather wait. Time is on my side, I think.)

Of course, everyone is free to disagree with this reasoning.

Incidentally, I just realized that I seem to be on a four-year upgrade cycle, and four years are up in February 2004.

MindFad · Jul 30, 2003, 08:43 PM

Take a cue from your name, emdash, and make a quick break for a G5.

Arkham_c · Jul 30, 2003, 09:43 PM

emdash -- I just sold my Sawtooth G4/450 on eBay for $660. I've sold about $300 in spam filtering software, so I have a ways to go to get my dual 2G G5, but I'm on the way.

Maybe I should sell my collection of 80's bar lights...

Leonard · Jul 31, 2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by davecom:
Well, gaming is not my main concern, since I do have a gamecube. But you guys have made me lean toward the G5. I've thought about it and I really don't need a dual processor machine, so waiting for the next rev of the G5s is not for me. I figure it's now or wait two years. And I don't want to wait two years. So yeah, I'll be getting the G5 1.8 most likely. Now, would you guys opt for the Radeon 9600 ($45 more) or stick with the FX? Sucks that the Radeon still only has 64 mb VRAM. Also, should I stick with the superdrive, or get the combo($180 less(I may get a camcorder, but I could make video cds right?))? What about the modem($29 less(I doubt i'll use it))?

According to Tom's Hardware Guide on Video Cards ( http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphi...714/index.html ) the Radeon 9600 is the better card. The guide is based on the PC versions of the cards, but should still be fairly accurate. You could take out the superdrive and save yourself $180 now and upgrade to a superdrive later. Are you getting the camcorder in the next year? You can leave the modem in or take it out, $29 doesn't really save much.

DeathMan · Jul 31, 2003, 01:19 PM

Modems help a tiny bit with resellability.
Superdrives are easy to get and install yourself, and you can definately get by with Video CDs for a while. I'm not sure about your options for making menus and what not. You'd want to look at that.

I'd say ditch the superdrive, ditch the modem (unless you want to fax, which is built into to Panther, so you might hold onto that. Hey, $29 fax machine) Minimize RAM (get it somewhere cheaper) and go with the 1.8.

In 2 years either sell it, (you'll get more if you've upgraded to superdrive), or use it as a server/renderer. In 2 years, distributed computing over Rendezvous is going to be standard. XCode already has it, and so Does Shake. I'm surprised FCP doesn't. AfterEffects does. Soon anything that requires much CPU effort will have the option of a Distributed system. Gigabit Ethernet + Redevous = Fast Renders/Compiles/Calculations.

Digital Video Careras make having a mac much more fun. Though I haven't been using mine as much as I could lately.