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PixelPete17 · Aug 20, 2003, 01:47 PM

My dad has a G4 400 (the newer motherboard, not the very first one) from when the G4s first came out.

My question is what is the fastest processor upgrade that mobo will take, and of all the options available, which is the best bang for buck for trying to hop it up for better photoshop performance?

I'm going to go dual G5 (God willing) at some point in the next six months, but he wants to upgrade too without spending a lot of money.

My current impression is that it will take either a G4 800 for $280 or a dual 800 for about $499? (may be wrong on that one). I'd love to try a dual 800 or dual 1.2 G on OS X.2 if it would work well on this older machine.

System specs are G4 400, 768 RAM, OS 9.1, 100 GB HD space (a 60 and a 40 on internal IDE bus), original video card (i forget what it is).

Thanks guys, I look forward to your help,

Pixel Pete

chris v · Aug 20, 2003, 03:47 PM

The orig. Sawtooth AGP motherboards won't support dual-cpu upgrades. There's a way to tell which one you've got, but I forget where I saw it. Perhaps on the Powerlogix website...

That said, I just put a OWC 1.2 gig upgrade in my Sawtooth 450, and it's pretty much 3 times as fast as it used to be, and it's very stable. I booted the machine 10 days ago after installing the CPU, and it's been up and running ever since.

You can get single 1.4 gig cards, now. I'm leaning towards one of these for my Cube 450.

CV

Powaqqatsi · Aug 20, 2003, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
The orig. Sawtooth AGP motherboards won't support dual-cpu upgrades. There's a way to tell which one you've got, but I forget where I saw it. Perhaps on the Powerlogix website...

That said, I just put a OWC 1.2 gig upgrade in my Sawtooth 450, and it's pretty much 3 times as fast as it used to be, and it's very stable. I booted the machine 10 days ago after installing the CPU, and it's been up and running ever since.

You can get single 1.4 gig cards, now. I'm leaning towards one of these for my Cube 450.

CV

AFAIK they did support Dual. I owned one, exactly the same. G4 400 AGP. Maybe the PCI-G4s don't support the dual upgrades...

osiris · Aug 20, 2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
AFAIK they did support Dual. I owned one, exactly the same. G4 400 AGP. Maybe the PCI-G4s don't support the dual upgrades...

I think it has to do with the UNI-North ASIC revision thingy.

This should help:

Powerlogix CPU guide

jfinete · Aug 20, 2003, 09:35 PM

If you still have the original graphics card (an ATi Rage 128) then you're better off upgrading that instead of processor upgrade. A low-end ATI Radeon card is relatively cheap, and will let you play newer games and let you use Quartz Extreme.

chris v · Aug 20, 2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by osiris:
I think it has to do with the UNI-North ASIC revision thingy.

This should help:

Powerlogix CPU guide

That's it exactly. Download that utility and it'll give you the lowdown. My Sawtooth 450 AGP Graphics does not support dual processors. I ordered it in Feb. 2000. Later Sawtooth (teeth?) machines did.

CV

ginoledesma · Aug 20, 2003, 11:55 PM

My machine (G4 400) seems to support it, at least if I recall correctly -- the UniNorth revision (v18?) was required by PowerLogix upgrade cards.

I haven't upgraded yet though, as it seems in the long run, the faster speeds won't really give the boost I want (limited bus speed after all). I've already maxed out the RAM and am using a Radeon 8500 in place of the original ATI Rage 128 Pro (or howevever the order of the words was). Good performance improvement so far, and I'm hoping Panther makes me feel like I've got a new (faster) machine.

villalobos · Aug 21, 2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by osiris:
I think it has to do with the UNI-North ASIC revision thingy.

This should help:

Powerlogix CPU guide

Avoid Powerlogix, their products have not been all that good lately (a lot of sleep issued especially). For a good idea of what you can do, check
xlr8yourmac.com

Gigadesigns.com makes some good upgrade cards. They have a 1 GHz upgrade for under $400, which has been shown to run at 1.2 GHz reliably.

Macsales.com also has a guide. You enter your computer specs and they tell you which one you can buy (between Sonnet, Gigadesigns, OWC and Powerlogix). Given the bus speed, I would not go over a single 1 GHz. A dual is an overkill.

villa

chris v · Aug 21, 2003, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by ginoledesma:
My machine (G4 400) seems to support it, at least if I recall correctly -- the UniNorth revision (v18?) was required by PowerLogix upgrade cards.

I haven't upgraded yet though, as it seems in the long run, the faster speeds won't really give the boost I want (limited bus speed after all)(...)

I can tell you difinitively, that updating my G4 450 to a G4 1.2 GIG resulted in a computer that does most processor-intensive tasks just about 3 times as fast.

The place where I haven't seen as much of a speed increase (~+50%) is in reading and writing files from the heard drive. It's still substantially better, though.

Overall, Apps launch insanely fast, the machine boots in 1 minute flat, classic launches in 30 seconds, etc. The machine is about on a par with my Quicksilver dual gig, except for the obvious multi-processor functions, like multi-tasking several apps at once.

I was pleasantly surprised by the speed increase overall, as I has the same doubts about bandwidth, but I've had those doubts put to rest.

Aside-- I also updated the vid card to a GeForce 4 MX, and the RAM is at 1.75 gig, so the machine is pretty loaded. I'm thinking it's good for at least 2-3 more years.

CV

Souljah · 10:42 AM

How fast? In about 15 mins.

seriously...
the best value by far is the Gigadesigns 1.0 ghz for $389 which runs at a reliable 1.2ghz and retains the warranty!
Gigadesigns are working on duals.

Powerlogix have the heat issues worked out
according to them...the new dual 1.4ghz at $1000 has no problems whatsoever.They are working on a dual and single 1.6ghz for $1100 I read somewhere.
If you purchase a dual 1.4ghz or 1.6ghz upgrade for $1000 to $1100(appx) you would have 80% the performance of the G5 1.6ghz for 50% the cost.It all depends on if your dad's comp earns him $$$ or not.If not go with a single and save the $$$ for a 2nd revision G5 in 15 months or so.

PixelPete17 · Aug 21, 2003, 02:23 PM

Wow you guys. All your help is really appreciated and the info is exactly what I needed.

Thanks for the info, looks like I'll look hard at the Giga 1 "Giga" processor upgrade.

Thanks again,

Pixel Pete

bartman00 · Aug 21, 2003, 06:54 PM

I just got the new GigaDesigs 1ghz (1.2ghz tested) cpu last week and it kicks ass!

it's sooo easy to install.. if you can use a screw driver you could do it...

it comes pre-set to run at 1.2ghz. I ran mine at that for a couple hours and it was fine.. nice and fast.. then I set it to 1.3ghz and it's still runing just fine at 1.3ghz! 1.4 booted and worked for a bit then crashed, i'm sure with some voltage and cooling tweeks it would be stable but 1.3ghz is just fine for me..

You can't beat the price! it's the cheepest 1ghz upgrade and the fact it runs like butter at1.2-1.3 is just gravy! you can't go wrong!

It's like a new computer!

Bart

LeeG · Aug 22, 2003, 09:57 PM

I too am looking to upgrade my G4/500 AGP - I can take the duals - based on the utility, but I think for what I do, a single at a higher speed would be better - Powerlogix has the 1.4 G4 single for 449! But I will now look again at the giga cards - its a matter of time....

Lee

LeeG · Aug 22, 2003, 10:06 PM

One more thing, are you voiding your warranty by running @ 1.2 Ghz? You said it comes set to run at that out of the box - so about this mac reads 1.2Ghz out of the box?? OWC states 'tested at 1.2'??

Lee

Souljah · 10:46 AM

Yeah I just noticed last night that Powerlogix dropped the price on the 1.4 ghz to $449 which means one if not both of the following.
1) With the release of the G5 they will have to offer more attractive pricing for their upgrades.
2) The 1.6 ghz is around the corner.

I myself will be holding out for the Giga Designs 1.6 or the 1.4ghz 7455a OCed to 1.6 like their 1.0 OCed to 1.2.
I suspect the 1.6ghz G4 will yield 75 to 80 percent the performance of the 1.6 G5 for one third the price!

ReggieX · Aug 23, 2003, 02:38 PM

Go Gigadesigns, my 800 upgrade went flawlessly in my Sawtooth 400.

Hiramw · Aug 23, 2003, 03:59 PM

Hello,

I recently upgraded my Dual G4 450. To a single 1.4GHz G4 from fastmac.com. Below are some benchmark results before and after the upgrade. In both cases the machine has a Radeon 8500, 640MB of RAM and OS 10.2.6. The only difference is the CPU.

(1)=Dual G4 450MHz (MPC7400) (2)=G4 1.4GHz (MPC7455)

XBench Overall Score (1)=62.44 (2)=105.19
XBench CPU (1)=47.13 (2)=153.92
XBench Quartz (1)=69.62 (2)=127.28
XBench OpenGL (1)=54.06 (2)=127.08
Altivec Fractal Carbon (1)=2981.8 MegaFlops (4.5 sec) (2)=4885.9 MegaFlops (2.7 sec)
Skidmarks GT (1) Int:41 FP:53 Vec:45 (2)=Int:140 FP:140 Vec:140
UT 2003 Asbestos-Bot (average fps) (1)=14.34 fps (2)=20.36 fps
UT 2003 Asbestos-Flyby (average fps) (1)=43.75 fps (2)=75.69 fps
UT OSX version (average fps) (1)=33 fps (2)=51.7 fps
Quake 2 OS X version (average fps) (1)=77.8 fps (2)=131.9 fps
Export iMovie Tutorial as QT movie (1)=112 seconds (2)=48 seconds

Hiram

LeeG · Aug 25, 2003, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Souljah:
Yeah I just noticed last night that Powerlogix dropped the price on the 1.4 ghz to $449 which means one if not both of the following.
1) With the release of the G5 they will have to offer more attractive pricing for their upgrades.
2) The 1.6 ghz is around the corner.

I hope the G5 causes G4 upgrades to fall - there are a lot of machines out there that could use a small boost.

I just noticed this, too, the 1.2GHz powerlogix is very reasonable at 369...

Powerlogix 1.2Ghz

Lee

DrBoar · Aug 26, 2003, 06:16 AM

To be truly usefull a CPU upgrade has to give a doubling of CPU performance (if 400 Hz is to slow so will 500 and 600...) The faster G4 are not quite as fast per clock cycle as the G4/400 so to get twise the speed you need 1.0-1.2 GHz

It will get substantially faster but not "insanly faster" the hard disk, the bus speed and the graphical card is the same. So it is like going from a 7200/90 to a 7300/200 or perhaps like from a B&W G3/300 to a G4/500. So expect to be pleased with the speed gain but do not expect to jump about raving

Cipher13 · Aug 26, 2003, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by chris v:
The orig. Sawtooth AGP motherboards won't support dual-cpu upgrades. There's a way to tell which one you've got, but I forget where I saw it. Perhaps on the Powerlogix website...

That said, I just put a OWC 1.2 gig upgrade in my Sawtooth 450, and it's pretty much 3 times as fast as it used to be, and it's very stable. I booted the machine 10 days ago after installing the CPU, and it's been up and running ever since.

You can get single 1.4 gig cards, now. I'm leaning towards one of these for my Cube 450.

CV

Cheap and dirty way to tell: check whether the audio ports are aligned vertically or horizontally on the back.

Vert = Sawtooth, Horiz = Yikes!

chris v · Aug 26, 2003, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Cheap and dirty way to tell: check whether the audio ports are aligned vertically or horizontally on the back.

Vert = Sawtooth, Horiz = Yikes!

That may differentiate a Sawtooth from a Yikes (mine's a Sawtooth by your criteria) but there's still an early Sawtooth mobo that won't take a dual-processor upgrade.

When I ran this, it said "not dual-compatible." I don't recall the exact mobo #.

CV

Keda · Aug 26, 2003, 08:59 AM

How fast can I upgrade my dad's G4 400 tower?

I did mine in 20 minutes.