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eyadams · Sep 21, 2003, 10:36 PM

For those who don't like long posts: an ATI Rage 128 "Orion" card does not work in a new G5 1.8.

Now, the longer version. I have a shiny new G5 1.8, which of course has 3 PCI-X slots. Next to it, I have a battered "Beige" G3, which has an ATI Rage Orion video card - a PCI ATI 128 with 32MB of VRAM. ATI's has a page on their web site that says:

Conventional PCI graphics boards WILL function as normal PCI 2.x devices in any PCI-X system. PCI-X devices WILL operate at conventional PCI frequencies when installed in older systems.

I know about the whole 5v vs 3.3v, but couldn't find anything on ATI's web site to indicate which voltage my card prefers. So I put it into my G5 to see what happened.

The computer booted fine, and there actually was a picture coming out of the ATI video card. However, it was 2 bit black and white, and very dark. When I pulled up the Displays control panel, it didn't list all the color modes or resolutions supported by the card - only 640x480x2 bit color.

Now, it is possible that this was a driver problem. I have seen similarly weird problems in Windows that were fixed by installing updated drivers. But I did not try downloading the latest drivers for the 128 from ATI and seeing if that made a difference. However, when I installed 10.2 on the "Beige", I didn't have to install ATI's drivers to get most of the card's features enabled - everything just worked. I don't think I'll bother with it - I was just fooling around.

I'd like to see other people's experiments and hear the results, though.

SuperM · Sep 22, 2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by eyadams:
For those who don't like long posts: an ATI Rage 128 "Orion" card does not work in a new G5 1.8.

Now, the longer version. I have a shiny new G5 1.8, which of course has 3 PCI-X slots. Next to it, I have a battered "Beige" G3, which has an ATI Rage Orion video card - a PCI ATI 128 with 32MB of VRAM. ATI's has a page on their web site that says:

I know about the whole 5v vs 3.3v, but couldn't find anything on ATI's web site to indicate which voltage my card prefers. So I put it into my G5 to see what happened.

The computer booted fine, and there actually was a picture coming out of the ATI video card. However, it was 2 bit black and white, and very dark. When I pulled up the Displays control panel, it didn't list all the color modes or resolutions supported by the card - only 640x480x2 bit color.

Now, it is possible that this was a driver problem. I have seen similarly weird problems in Windows that were fixed by installing updated drivers. But I did not try downloading the latest drivers for the 128 from ATI and seeing if that made a difference. However, when I installed 10.2 on the "Beige", I didn't have to install ATI's drivers to get most of the card's features enabled - everything just worked. I don't think I'll bother with it - I was just fooling around.

I'd like to see other people's experiments and hear the results, though.

Well, this is good news. I have two of these cards in my B&W G3 of which I want to put the PCI version into my new DP G5 next weekend. This is vital because I need to run two screens. I know that the video card that will come with my G5 is capable of running two monitors, but I want to avoid spending money on a DVI -> VGA converter if I can.

Thanks for 'fooling around!'

giantmike · Sep 22, 2003, 07:47 AM

The G5 comes with a DVI-> VGA converter.

Stephane · Sep 24, 2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by giantmike:
The G5 comes with a DVI-> VGA converter.

Since he wrote about 2 screens, maybe he wanted to say ADC to VGA concerter (like Dr Bott's), speaking of his 2nd CRT display ?

eyadams · Sep 24, 2003, 10:56 AM

Since he wrote about 2 screens, maybe he wanted to say ADC to VGA concerter (like Dr Bott's), speaking of his 2nd CRT display ?

I'm using the converter that comes with the G5 to drive one monitor, and have thought about getting the Dr Bott converter to drive the other. But my understanding is that using one video card to drive two monitors degrades performance, especially under games. And I LOVE how much smoother games like No One Lives Forever and realMyst are on my G5 with the ATI 9600.

That was part of why I wanted to see if my ATI 128 would work in the PCI-X cards - performance. I'm disapointed that it didn't, but I suppose I can try the Dr. Bott thing next.

SuperM · Sep 24, 2003, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by giantmike:
The G5 comes with a DVI-> VGA converter.

Doesn't the G5 comes with an ADC -> VGA converter? From the memory of my first look at a G5 at my local AppleCentre, the video card was connected to a 23" Cinema Display via the ADC connector which was marked #1. The DVI connector is marked #2.

I though I'd get the best system first, then upgrade my monitor later.

BTW, I hope to pick up my G5 this Saturday.

eyadams · Oct 10, 2003, 06:07 PM

A quick followup. I finally got around to putting my Rage Orion 128 back in, and installing the most recent drivers.

Everything is working just fine. I've got this window spanning both monitors as I type this. I am a happy camper.

olePigeon · Oct 10, 2003, 08:34 PM

Don't suppose you have an older Adaptec SCSI card that you can test too?

Cadaver · Oct 11, 2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by SuperM:
Doesn't the G5 comes with an ADC -> VGA converter? From the memory of my first look at a G5 at my local AppleCentre, the video card was connected to a 23" Cinema Display via the ADC connector which was marked #1. The DVI connector is marked #2.

I though I'd get the best system first, then upgrade my monitor later.

BTW, I hope to pick up my G5 this Saturday.

No, the G5 comes with a DVI to VGA adapter. Essentially the same one that comes with the 15" & 17" PowerBooks.

The only performance hit you get from running two monitors off the same card is in games, since the card splits the VRAM evenly between the two. Many games shut down the secondary display to give all the VRAM to the main (game) display.

In 2D work (Finder, most apps), there is NO speed hit. I'm running a dual G5 with a Radeon 9600... ADC port connected to a 22" Cinema DIsplay, the DVI port connected to a 17" Studio Display (via DVI -> ADC adapter). No detectable performance hit when the second display is connected.

Besides, running both displays off a single card is going to be way faster than having the second display non-Quartz Extreme accelerated.

eyadams · Oct 11, 2003, 05:34 PM

Many games shut down the secondary display to give all the VRAM to the main (game) display.

While this was almost universally true under OS 9, for some reason it is generally NOT the case under OS X. I have several games that have weird dual-head bugs under OS X. In "No One Lives Forever" the game will stop responding to the mouse button, as if the cursor drifted out of the window. In "Star Trek: Elite Force" movie sequences are shifted toward the secondary monitor and blanked out on part of the screen. Under "Myst III: Exile" the cursor would drift out of the game window completely and have to be moved back for clicks to be registered. Other games have similar problems.

It's annoying. But I don't spend all my time playing games, and I like having mail and other things that don't really need Quartz Extreme running off another monitor. And since I spent all this money buying a Rage Orion, I figure it's nice to use it, rather than have it gather dust in my old, unused Beige G3.