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Crusoe · Oct 6, 2003, 09:14 AM

For those interested they are raffling a Dual G5 and a 15" SD AlBook. I entered the 12" Powerbook last month and have a ticket for both the new lottos. At 21.50 each, odds of 1 in 150 and 1 in 130 and some cash collection dust in PayPal it is worth a shot for me.

Good Luck!

http://www.macfora.com/

daydreamer · Oct 6, 2003, 09:47 AM

there is a 15" al lottery to... hmm

GK · Oct 6, 2003, 02:43 PM

Is it a legit site ? Couldn't find any contact info.

docman · Oct 6, 2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by GK:
Is it a legit site ? Couldn't find any contact info.

no way.

i would never give these guys my money. i mean, does it look at all legit? no contact info. no rules. not charitable. how do you know they do not own the "winning ticket", or have a shill that does?

i tried to find a reference, but i can't at the moment, but does anyone remember some site doing this a year or two ago? basically it turned out some kid on the east coast set up this "raffle", which was then reported to his state and i believe he shut it down. he didn't even have the computer purchased.

the fact that they only sell a number of tickets to equal (or exceed) the purchase price indicates this is nothing more than someone's get rich quick scheme.

if macfora.com is indeed located in new york as its domain registration suggests, then you might find NY state raffle rules to be interesting reading..

cheers..

docbud · Oct 6, 2003, 08:18 PM

macfora is legit.
doc

docman · 08:54 PM

Originally posted by docbud:
macfora is legit.
doc

not very convincing, but i should have searched the forums. my comments still do stand, and have been argued at greater length by danbrew in another thread. i'll stay away, thanks.

climber · Oct 6, 2003, 08:58 PM

As was pointed out this practice is ILLEGAL in most states, unless this is for a charity or other non profit.

Do not buy this.

docbud · Oct 6, 2003, 09:04 PM

docman

Wasn't trying to be convincing. Just wanted to say that macofra is a legit site--that was all.

I'm not saying whether folks should buy the tickets or not, just that I don't think it's a scam.

I too am wary of raffles.

Anyway--no big deal to me.

doc

docman · Oct 6, 2003, 09:20 PM

got it, no worries

Originally posted by docbud:
docman

Wasn't trying to be convincing. Just wanted to say that macofra is a legit site--that was all.

I'm not saying whether folks should buy the tickets or not, just that I don't think it's a scam.

I too am wary of raffles.

Anyway--no big deal to me.

doc

Truepop · Oct 6, 2003, 09:52 PM

I used to go to this site before they changed their layout. The admin/owner/whatever was or is on these forums somewhere.

Also I second or third that no one should buy in to this because it is an illegal practice (in most all states).

Counterfit · Oct 7, 2003, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by climber:
As was pointed out this practice is ILLEGAL in most states, unless this is for a charity or other non profit.

Do not buy this.

I can assure you that it will be a monetary loss for Smoothie. Macfora is completely run from member contributions and Smoothie's pocket change. If you want to see whether the 'fora sprang up overnight, well do a quick look at post numbers, and registration dates. I myself have been a member for almost a year.

got my ticket, wondering where to put the G5 if I happen to win

climber · Oct 7, 2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Counterfit:
I can assure you that it will be a monetary loss for Smoothie. Macfora is completely run from member contributions and Smoothie's pocket change. If you want to see whether the 'fora sprang up overnight, well do a quick look at post numbers, and registration dates. I myself have been a member for almost a year.

got my ticket, wondering where to put the G5 if I happen to win

If you want to pretend it is a good idea to give money to someone who either does not know it is Illegal (stupid) or does not care that this is Illegal (dishonest) then feel free to buy every single ticket.

If this site was legitimate they could easily provide a copy of their 501 Non Profit status to anyone wanting to make sure they are not the thieves they appear to be.

Waldo · Oct 7, 2003, 02:07 PM

Not trying to convince anyone that this is legal, but if you want to see a little bit better info read this forum.
http://www.macfora.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13158

docman · Oct 7, 2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Waldo:
Not trying to convince anyone that this is legal, but if you want to see a little bit better info read this forum.
http://www.macfora.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13158

interesting. not to beat this one to death, but he seems pretty defensive in his forum, despite never answering the fundamental concerns (no oversight, not legal.)

i don't think anyone is trying to skewer him for having good intentions, even if those intentions seem (to all but some) terribly naive.

remember, those who choose to participate are not the only ones who should be concerned; as mentioned in danbrew's comments, a loser can sue (see code 5-423) to recover their ticket price back.. in fact, all purchasers could.

anyway, i'll be quiet; i'm sure the participants don't want extra publicity (for reasons of "contest" odds, if not legality.)

cheers...

chrisutley · Oct 7, 2003, 04:38 PM

Suing for $20 would not be a profitable venture, and I doubt most people playing a raffle for a Mac can afford the time or cost of suing for that $20.

AssassyN · Oct 7, 2003, 06:27 PM

They're legit..."Jay" runs the place, and he's always got crazy setups going on...trustworthy site.

docman · Oct 7, 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by chrisutley:
Suing for $20 would not be a profitable venture, and I doubt most people playing a raffle for a Mac can afford the time or cost of suing for that $20.

perhaps not, but all they need is one state or federal prosecutor (either can claim jurisdiction), or one class-action (probably less likely, but it has happened before). each with the weight of all users behing them. still a good idea? overwhelming common sense points to "no".

don't forget, paypal is not a bank, and a domain name does not make you a business (nor a 501(c)3)

still, if you're right about $20 not being worth most users' while to recover, then you've probably nailed the optimistic naivety these sort of schemes prey on: "its only $20, why not..."

cheers..

taffy · Oct 7, 2003, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
They're legit..."Jay" runs the place, and he's always got crazy setups going on...trustworthy site.

Yeah it may be legit, but it's ILLEGAL. Maybe this 'Jay' person actually has the intention to ship the winner a machine while he's making a killing on the total sale of tickets.

This isn't new. It's been done before. Remember MacRaffles.com Site went down and if I remember correctly whoever organized it was being investigated or something to do with the authorities.

I can't see how you're saying it's a 'trustworthy' site.

c.

Counterfit · Oct 7, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by climber:
If you want to pretend it is a good idea to give money to someone who either does not know it is Illegal (stupid) or does not care that this is Illegal (dishonest) then feel free to buy every single ticket.

If I had the money to do that, I wouldn't be entering a raffle/lottery now would I?

If this site was legitimate they could easily provide a copy of their 501 Non Profit status to anyone wanting to make sure they are not the thieves they appear to be.

Smoothie does not have to prove himself to me any more than he already has. Spending even one hour on the site will give you an idea of how he runs things. Whether or not he has the paperwork that certifies he is non-profit doesn't matter to me. From the dedication he's shown to working on Macfora, and all the flak he's taken, (some from people like you) I will most certainly help Smoothie and my other fellow Mac users by whatever means I can.
And as far as a class-action suit, not by the regular members of Macfora.
Also, the whole idea of the non-winners of a (legal) lottery or raffle being able to sue for their ticket price back seems pointless to me, basically being a sore loser and not realizing that only ONE (or however many) prize is given out.

docman: none of those links you provided were anywhere near relevant. This is not a pyramid scheme, nor a matrix. It is a raffle, it may be called a lottery, but it's a raffle, plain and simple.

climber · Oct 7, 2003, 09:56 PM

Well I would guess he will ban me from his site soon. Heaven forbid someone would point out that it is Illegal in New York for two reasons. First he is not a charity and second this is on the internet.

The point I found funny that he admits to not giving a crap even when I tried to point out that his current ISP could and would pull the plug on his site for this type of activity.

In case anyone would like to check for themselves:

http://www.racing.state.ny.us/charitable/char.home.htm

docman · Oct 7, 2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Counterfit:
docman: none of those links you provided were anywhere near relevant. This is not a pyramid scheme, nor a matrix. It is a raffle, it may be called a lottery, but it's a raffle, plain and simple. [/B]

i always associate "raffles" with charitable causes, and the ones i've participated in never have a ticket-sales minimum. i also get to see the guy dipping his hand in to the big jar of tickets. guess you, me, and the state of new york have different terminology. what a mess!

it's pretty obvious you're one of the defenders of this practice; you even appear to have a stake in whatever the current raffle is. that's fine; no one is attacking you for doing what you want with your money.

but with respect to the original topic, the poster asked if it was "legit", ie, is it a site we can trust. the facts are undeniably stacked against this sort of operation, in general; and as for this specific site, there is little evidence to improve that case.

you and your friends at macfora are taking a risk. fine. but if we talk about it and can only determine that it is risky and illegal, you must understand if the prevailing recommendation is to avoid participating.

best of luck..

climber · Oct 8, 2003, 01:08 AM

I got into a discussion with the owner of the site, and although I think he is a bit naive, I don't think he is just taking peoples money. He just never thought about the legal standing of lotteries and raffles. or gambling on the Internet. Otherwise I don't think he would have started them in the first place. By his own admission he makes nothing from either his site or the lottery he runs. He has now decided to discontinue any future ones.

Thanks_a_lot · Oct 8, 2003, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by climber:
I got into a discussion with the owner of the site, and although I think he is a bit naive, I don't think he is just taking peoples money. He just never thought about the legal standing of lotteries and raffles. or gambling on the Internet. Otherwise I don't think he would have started them in the first place. By his own admission he makes nothing from either his site or the lottery he runs. He has now decided to discontinue any future ones.

As a long-time member of Macfora, I'd like to thank Climber for ruining a good thing. I am one of many Macfora members that has participated in the lotteries. Despite the fact that most of us have not won, our community has always enjoyed these raffles.

Expressing your opinion here within your own forum community is one thing. By all means, caution your fellow MacNN members against what you suspect may be a link to a bogus lottery. Contacting the Administrator of the site that you suspect is perpetrating fraud is also fine. But was it really necessary to join Macfora just so you could shovel this shitte within our community as well? Was it not obvious with the responses to your first post that the members of the Macfora community have no doubt about the scruples of its Administrator? What was obvious is that you know nothing about Macfora, and did not take the time to find out.

climber · Oct 8, 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Thanks_a_lot:
As a long-time member of Macfora, I'd like to thank Climber for ruining a good thing. I am one of many Macfora members that has participated in the lotteries. Despite the fact that most of us have not won, our community has always enjoyed these raffles.

Expressing your opinion here within your own forum community is one thing. By all means, caution your fellow MacNN members against what you suspect may be a link to a bogus lottery. Contacting the Administrator of the site that you suspect is perpetrating fraud is also fine. But was it really necessary to join Macfora just so you could shovel this shitte within our community as well? Was it not obvious with the responses to your first post that the members of the Macfora community have no doubt about the scruples of its Administrator? What was obvious is that you know nothing about Macfora, and did not take the time to find out.

Boy are you guys over there clueless. I asked your beloved administrator over there one simple question about the legality of the lottery. And he admitted he never even considered it.

I and others have posted numerous links that prove that I was right, and all I hear from you cry babies is "you ruined a good thing". Grow up for once.

If smoothie wants to continue to hold an Illegal lottery or raffle (as he still is today) then why should his intentions not be questioned. What do you think happened to the tickets sold over at MacRaffle right after the Ohio attorney general seized that companies assets? My guess is many people lost out on that one.