Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

ebuddy · Oct 17, 2003, 09:29 AM

Okay, I'm trying to troubleshoot the 2nd RAM bay in bank 2 of my dual G5. ( I don't need to remind you how expensive this unit is.). It came shipped with 2, 256mb Apple chipsets in it. I'm getting J14 errors from Hardware Test no matter which way I configure the third party RAM. (I added 2, PNY 256mb chips, but no matter where I put them, same error). Apple cannot service the unit until I've tried Apple RAM in those slots. Guess how much Apple RAM is? $250.00 for one 512 stick so I ask; "well, the machine shipped with 2, 256 mb chips of Apple Ram, surely you sell those chips?" Nope. You cannot find Apple chips under 512 mbs. That's plain shotty. I gave Apple an earful! And now I'm giving you an eyeful!!! I usually sing Apple's praises, but there's no point in being an Apple enthusiast when running into problems like this and not getting support.

AssassyN · Oct 17, 2003, 09:33 AM

The problem isn't really Apple's, it's PNY. Do not buy that cheap of RAM man...RAM is something NOT to skimp on, or you'll face problems exactly like you're having.

Get reputable RAM from places like www.coastmemory.com (my fav.), www.crucial.com, and www.kingston.com.

Scotttheking · Oct 17, 2003, 09:37 AM

Why not take the apple ram you have and put it in those banks?

ebuddy · Oct 17, 2003, 09:43 AM

Right on Scotttheking I'm already on it. Wtg for Hardware test to complete. Then, I'll have tested Apple RAM in that J14 slot. If it passes, I move on. I also understand the other guy's post about cheap RAM and I agree, the quandry here is that obviously the first chipset is good otherwise I should be getting errors J11 and J14. That is not the case. I've got the two PNY's in bays 12 and 13 now (the ones that originally housed the Apple RAM) and I've got the Apple RAM in 11 and 14. We'll see what happens and I'll get back to you. I presume if I've got the Apple RAM in the allegedly troubled slot-it should render a different result. Hopefully none.

Hydra · Oct 17, 2003, 09:53 AM

Giving Apple an earful as you say will only serve to make you less happy in the end. I know for a fact that if you get labled as a problem customer by many companies (Apple is not alone here) and irrational you will be in for a rude awakening. Apple can't be responsible for every RAM module out there. Does the stock RAM work? Then you may want to return the PNY (I have PNY PC3500 DDR433 running fine in my dual by the way) and exchange it for another two sticks or even a different mfr. So you think DELL would service your computer if your OEM RAM that shipped with the computer was fine and something you added later didn't work?

I have a question: did you call and complain to PNY and give them an earful as well? Why not place the blame where it should be, on PNY. Many people are finding out now that many RAM distributors are claiming their RAM is CAS 2.0 only to find that the timing isn't really on the chip and that it is overclockable to the highrer speed. The problem for Mac users is that only PC's have the bios utility needed to change the speeds. I see some lawsuits in the future over this. Bad RAM is a fact of life in computing, just return what you got and give it another go.

-Jerry C.

ebuddy · Oct 17, 2003, 09:56 AM

AssassyN, if hardware test comes back w/ error and I decide to replace the third party RAM, are you saying the RAM offered at your fav; wwwcoastmemory.com - I'll have success? I know it sounds stupid, but I've had 3 macs in the past 6 years and have yet to have a RAM issue, I get a G5 and have nothing, but RAM issues. I can't afford two 512 sticks-are the 256 sticks sufficient? i.e. are they tried and true?

Hydra · Oct 17, 2003, 10:03 AM

I think Crucial is about as fool proof as possible for a G5. They are one of the few companies that explicitly shows G5 compatibility on their site. I have 2x512MB Crucial sticks and 2x512MB PNY 3500 sticks along with the stock 2x256MB for a total of 2.5GB. I've been running for 3 weeks like this and no problems.

-Jerry C.

ebuddy · Oct 17, 2003, 10:06 AM

I understand your points Hydra and I agree with you. To be clear, my "earful" is not quite what I made it out to be. I approach everything with honey. I'm a diagnostic technician for a telephone company here and we keep extensive logs on "repeat" or offensive callers so I can appreciate the relationship there. I gave Apple an "earful" (i.e. "gosh, doesn't that sound kind of quirky to you?" in which she agreed after searching for 10 minutes on RAM that doesn't exist for sale.) My complaint was regarding the fact that the expensive machine shipped w/ RAM you cannot buy. Personally, that sucks.

I did not call PNY. I did not call PNY because no matter which chipset I placed in J14, I got J14 errors. It seemed reasonable to me (based on the hardware test c.d. Apple produced and shipped with my machine) to call Apple and ask if it's possible that bay is bad. They agree that the bay is possibly bad, but can't do anything w/o testing Apple RAM. I cannot get the affordable Apple RAM to conduct the test which means I may have to pay a technician to verify it here locally. Unless of course the bay is indeed defective or everything works w/ third party RAM in the primary bays.

In short, I don't mean to be too hard on Apple, it's just that I'm ticked and have a lot to do without having to drop everything and play; "let's swap the RAM around again." Still wtg for this round of hardware test and I'll post the results.

I'd like to thank you folx for such quick replies. They are very helpful. I also appreciate you letting me vent.

dantley · Oct 17, 2003, 12:07 PM

PNY RAM is really bad! They are known to have issues in PCs and Macs. I wouldn't even consider using PNY in my PC, let alone my G5. Get some Crucial RAM.

killergator · Oct 17, 2003, 07:06 PM

I am not sure about the shoddy ram, but I will say this. My G5 has 1Gb of apple installed ram and 1gb Ultra dual channel Overclocking ram I bought from Tigerdirect. I put them in and they work like a charm. I have had 0 kernel panics or problems whatsoever. the cas latency for these ultra chips is 2. I plan on using them throughout and will eventually sell the apple ram. Gotta love it

Hydra · Oct 18, 2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by killergator:
I am not sure about the shoddy ram, but I will say this. My G5 has 1Gb of apple installed ram and 1gb Ultra dual channel Overclocking ram I bought from Tigerdirect. I put them in and they work like a charm. I have had 0 kernel panics or problems whatsoever. the cas latency for these ultra chips is 2. I plan on using them throughout and will eventually sell the apple ram. Gotta love it

I would run the Apple hardware test disc and see what that Over-clocking RAM is timed at. I've seen many report that some venders/manufactures sell RAM at a slower CAS but claim it can be run faster. This is all fine and good in the PC world where utilities exist to change the CAS timing, but none exist on the Mac. They may claim it is CAS 2.0 but it may in fact be running at 2.5 right now. This is really not a problem but if you paid for CAS 2.0 that is exactly what you should get.

I ran many tests with my 2x512MB PNY PC3500 DDR433 RAM CAS 2.5 (reported by Apple's test disc as CAS 2.5) and saw no difference compared to the OEM 3.0 CAS sticks. I only paid $120 for each 512MB stick and it has run flawlessly for over 3 weeks so I just kept it in there along with my 2x512MB Crucial RAM for a total of 2.5 GB. I tested the PNY in my dual G5 by itself and the OEM stuff by itself as RAM will always run at the slowest rated RAM in the machine.

There seems to be issues with CAS 2.0 RAM that doesn't have a CAS 3.0 timing on the stick. This means that if the G5 accepts the RAM at 2.0 it may still just run it at CAS 3.0 anyway (after all the testing I did I don't think it's a far-out assumption that the G5 will accept CAS2.0 &2.5 but still will only run it at CAS3.0 at the fastest).

Others have run into problems if the 3.0 speed is not available on the stick and it basically won't even be recognized by the G5. I think I may start an "OFFICIAL G5 RAM THREAD" and start to organize all this info for others benefit.

-Jerry C.

ebuddy · Oct 18, 2003, 09:16 AM

Others have run into problems if the 3.0 speed is not available on the stick and it basically won't even be recognized by the G5. I think I may start an "OFFICIAL G5 RAM THREAD" and start to organize all this info for others benefit.
-Jerry C.

Excellent idea Hydra! I ran another test w/ Apple RAM in slots J11 and J14 w/ PNY RAM in the original Apple RAM slots J12 and J13 and this Hardware Test showed error on J11. (where the Apple RAM is) Oh well. I'm beginning to think the entire test results are skewed with the PNY RAM inside anywhere. I sent the PNY back and ordered from CRUCIAL. I'm expecting it this morning and will reply w/ results. Although, calling PNY RAM cheap is probably wrong as it was approx $10 more per chip than the CRUCIAL RAM.

In short; before my last test it seemed I was getting J14 errors consistently which led me to believe that bay was defective. It was personally very refreshing to get a J11 error if for no other reason than J14 passed.

Big Mac · Oct 19, 2003, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
The problem isn't really Apple's, it's PNY. Do not buy that cheap of RAM man...RAM is something NOT to skimp on, or you'll face problems exactly like you're having.

Get reputable RAM from places like www.coastmemory.com (my fav.), www.crucial.com, and www.kingston.com.

Assassyn, I must be reading your post in a parallel universe. You indict the OP for buying cheap RAM, and then you list coastmemory as your favorite reputable vendor? Coast to Coast is the absolutely cheapest reseller, and has arguably the worst reputation. Crucial and Kingston are name-brand resellers, OTOH, and charge premium prices.

ebuddy · Oct 20, 2003, 10:33 AM

Happiest Mac guy ever! Okay, here's the deal. Returned the more expensive RAM from PNY for 2, 256mb chips from CRUCIAL. YEAH BABY! Passed Hardware Test.

Here's something strange. When I had the PNY anywhere in the machine the Hardware Test was giving me erronious error codes. It even claimed once that J11 was bad. (that's where I had the Apple RAM!) Now, after putting the CRUCIAL RAM in, passed Hardware Test and I even believe I've got a boost in performance. Now all this may seem elementary, but I gotta tell ya, I was starting to think the RAM bays were bad and took up nail-biting again after having been clean for years.

Lesson learned? If RAM is important, get CRUCIAL RAM!