[rubberduck77]

My parents are considering getting a new Computer and I pointed them towards the eMac.
So far they've been using a PM 7200/90 (!) for basic e-mail and web surfing, but as that thing is close to 9 years of age, you might imagine what it feels like to work on it. And thus their appreciation of anything internet is... let's call it "disturbed".

They are getting cable broadband end of January and by then I hope to have them equipped with a Mac that is up to their needs for the next couple of years.
eMac seems great for them, maybe an iSight later. But as talks about possible new eMacs never cease in these forums, I was wondering how good an investment for the next years the current eMacs are?

What I am mainly concerned about are the ports - no usb 2.0 there, only firewire 400 - and the harddrive size - nearly impossible to expand internally as I found out here.
I am taking LOTS of pictures and store them on my cube and my user folder is slightly above 30 GB, so the stock 40 GB should do for my parents who are by far no hardcore users.

Mac would be used for WWW, eMail, iChat A/V, home office applications

Would anyone have concerns about possible upcoming applications or devices in these fields that the 1 GHz eMac would not be able to handle?
(And hey, no joking about or comparison to the our PM 7200! )

[Sosa]

The eMac sounds like a good match for your parents. The lack of second generation ports should hardly matter as it only affects transfer speeds and is only noticeable over large amounts of data (gigabytes). I doubt your parents will be doing anything of this sort. Also second generation USB and firewire ports, aren't they backwards compatible with first generation ports? Even if not, is there some device you wish to use which requires USB 2 or firewire 800? Probably not.

[rubberduck77]

Yeah, you're right, 2nd gen ports are downwards compatible, but they lose sort of their purpose then. Anyway, as you say there is no peripheral I can think of right now that would need these advanced ports (unless usb 2.0 is becoming THE industry standard over the next couple of years).

(Stupid sidenote: I was wondering whether there is some device to turn Firewire into usb 2.0?)

As far as storage is concerned: Since you are hardly able to swap the main drive, how far will those 40 GB take you?
In Europe, the 80 GB drive means a 60,- Euro increase (which equals a whole 80 GB drive on its own). First I thought, why not stick with 40 GB and get an external drive when it gets full, but then I realized that user folders have to be on the main drive, right?
Anyone who uses his eMac normally (some photos, some music), how big do your user folders get?

[Luca Rescigno]

I'd suggest getting the BTO 80 GB drive simply because it's faster. Sure, for your parents who are used to their 7200/90 it'll be fast anyway, but the 40 GB drive that comes with current eMacs is a 5400 RPM, not a 7200 RPM. The 80 GB is a 7200 RPM drive.

Also, in almost every Mac I've used, the first thing to run out is hard drive space. I'm always running out of room and wishing I had bought a larger drive.

There is a way to move your Users folder to an external drive, though it's not really intuitive. But all the has to be on the internal drive, really, is your iTunes and iPhoto libraries, some core applications, utilities, and the system. You can move other things to the external drive to make room for more photos and music.

[megasad]

Apple seem to only update the eMac once a year (originally released in April 2002, updated in May 2003, so probably not again until May/June 2004 (unless they decide to axe it all together, which would be bad...)), so, if your parents need a new machine by the end of January, you might as well buy the current 1GHz model. It's a fine machine, and the only reason I'm waiting for them to be updated is that I've been waiting three months already, and it's turned into a kind of staring match for me. And I want USB 2.0, even though the only thing I have that could use it is a Sony Memory Stick Pro...

I have no idea how easy it is to change the hard drive inside the eMac, but since you can get a 160GB 7200rpm drive put in there by using the custom build thingy on the Apple Store for only €180 more, I'd do that right off.

Also, put 1GB of RAM in there, though not from Apple themselves on account of their foolish prices.

Finally, it is very easy to have your user folder on another drive/partition than that which the operating system and applications are on. Instructions are here. Following that method, your iTunes and iPhoto libraries, in fact your entire home folder, can be put on a larger, external drive. However, you then need to have the external drive powered on all the time you use the eMac, and they usually don't switch off their fans when you put the computer to sleep, so the 160GB internal drive is much nicer in that respect.

[Krusty]

Honestly, I'd wait beyond the end of January if you could. The current eMac could get bumped before April or May this time .. I think the Powermac being stuck with a 1.4ghz G4 probably caused a little bit of a backup in the iMac and eMac updates. I just can't imagine that Apple would upgrade the powermacs to dual 2.4 (or 2.6) G5s before the eMac gets upgraded again -- and the PM updates should be soon if Apple still plans to hit its "3ghz in a year" declaration they made last summer.

I'm pretty serious about getting the next rev eMac as well .. but am holding out for a speed bump + USB 2.0 + iLife bundled (rather than having to "send in" $19.95 for it) + hopefully some extras like impoved graphics, quieter operation, a built-in BT option. If the next rev doesn't suit you (or doesn't exist if they discontinue), they you can always get a 1ghz model on closeout.

If you do get one soon, I'd recommend adding only a single, third-party 512mb chip right now. 640 should be PLENTY for the stuff they wanna do and you can always add another later. Go for at least the 80 gig drive (for reasons mentioned).

[Mr.Clicky]

I'd advise anyone considering an eMac to also pay close attention to the quality of the monitor. Although very bright the last lot shipped with brownish tints down the left hand side and blueish blotches down the right. The yumminess of 1280x960 resolution is great but things degrade if you want to go lower. Oh, and get the optional tilt n' swivel stand - these beasts are heavy!

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by Krusty:
I'm pretty serious about getting the next rev eMac as well .. but am holding out for a speed bump + USB 2.0 + iLife bundled (rather than having to "send in" $19.95 for it) + hopefully some extras like impoved graphics, quieter operation, a built-in BT option. If the next rev doesn't suit you (or doesn't exist if they discontinue), they you can always get a 1ghz model on closeout.

If you do get one soon, I'd recommend adding only a single, third-party 512mb chip right now. 640 should be PLENTY for the stuff they wanna do and you can always add another later. Go for at least the 80 gig drive (for reasons mentioned).

You're pretty sure right about a next rev eMac coming up, and it would be great to get that one, but as said initially, broadband will be ready in 3 weeks and leaving that unused for a couple of more months will not convert my parents from being internet sceptic, I suppose

I'd definitely only go for 640mb ram, especially looking at current prices (what happened to them over the last weeks??).

The 80gb drive is an option, but in comparison to the very reasonable price of the whole eMac, any BTO option seems pretty steep pricewise. As I see it right now, they could be fine with the 40gig one, the increased speed of a 7200rpm drive should not be noticeable that much, especially for non-power-users. And in case it gets too small, there is always the option of getting a next rev eMac in half a year and sell the other one on eBay with very little loss, looking at the proices they are selling on eBay right now (at least over here).

And for iLife, isn't this shipped with every new mac after Jan 16? I mean, if I order the thing 2 days later, I hope it would be included! Or would I have to go through the 19,95 "shipping & delivery" gag?

Originally posted by Mr.Clicky:
I'd advise anyone considering an eMac to also pay close attention to the quality of the monitor. Although very bright the last lot shipped with brownish tints down the left hand side and blueish blotches down the right. The yumminess of 1280x960 resolution is great but things degrade if you want to go lower. Oh, and get the optional tilt n' swivel stand - these beasts are heavy!

Thanks for the advice on the CRT. Anyone else familiar with this problem, maybe with machines shipped in Europe?
Considering the tilt n' swivel stand, I read on these forums that they increase the noise level of the eMac. Experiences anyone?

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by megasad:
I have no idea how easy it is to change the hard drive inside the eMac, but since you can get a 160GB 7200rpm drive put in there by using the custom build thingy on the Apple Store for only €180 more, I'd do that right off.

€180 is a ripoff for selling a 40 GB 5400 RPM drive and then buying a 160 GB 7200 RPM drive to replace it. By itself, a 160 GB drive is only about $115, subtracting the $50 for the 40 GB hard drive brings the net cost to upgrade all the way down to $65. Because the hard drive is so hard to replace, you can even knock a reasonable price all the way up to $100 if you include installation. That's still far below what they actually charge. It's $150 here in the US, and €180 in Europe? That's at least $200US! Not worth it for a 160 GB hard drive.

[megasad]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
€180 is a ripoff for selling a 40 GB 5400 RPM drive and then buying a 160 GB 7200 RPM drive to replace it. By itself, a 160 GB drive is only about $115, subtracting the $50 for the 40 GB hard drive brings the net cost to upgrade all the way down to $65. Because the hard drive is so hard to replace, you can even knock a reasonable price all the way up to $100 if you include installation. That's still far below what they actually charge. It's $150 here in the US, and €180 in Europe? That's at least $200US! Not worth it for a 160 GB hard drive.

Crap, you speak truth. I hadn't bothered to investigate the prices, and my enthusiasm for the larger drive was based more on the fact that it's a whole 'nother 100GB on top of what I have at the moment.

Does anyone know how to fit your own drive in the eMac? Any online instructions / official Apple manuals floating around? Or somwhere that will fit the drive for you for a reasonable price? Don't want to void that warranty for at least the first year...

[EDIT - Sorry to derail this thread from the original poster's question, but does anyone know the model number of the 160GB 7200rpm drive that Apple use in the eMac? Or, if not that, how large is the cache? 2MB? 8MB?]

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by megasad:
Does anyone know how to fit your own drive in the eMac? Any online instructions / official Apple manuals floating around? Or somwhere that will fit the drive for you for a reasonable price? Don't want to void that warranty for at least the first year...

You might want to have a look at that thread:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...t=emac+replace

Seems as if it's quite a piece of work. That's why I was concerned about the harddrive in the first place. Otherwise I would be downright stupid to buy an Apple BTO upgrade for the harddrive when you can get it for a fraction of the Apple price and replace it yourself, and with a drive according to your taste at that.

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
€180 is a ripoff for selling a 40 GB 5400 RPM drive and then buying a 160 GB 7200 RPM drive to replace it. By itself, a 160 GB drive is only about $115, subtracting the $50 for the 40 GB hard drive brings the net cost to upgrade all the way down to $65. Because the hard drive is so hard to replace, you can even knock a reasonable price all the way up to $100 if you include installation. That's still far below what they actually charge. It's $150 here in the US, and €180 in Europe? That's at least $200US! Not worth it for a 160 GB hard drive.

Not really on topic, but anyway:
I do not know how aware you guys are of the pricing differences we have for Apple products in Europe compared to the U.S. - especially now with the increasing € strength, it's getting worse and worse. e.g. The new mini iPod was announced to be launched at €299 in Germany & Austria - that's $397 !!!
So every product, every little BTO is sometimes way more expensive than in the U.S., resulting in a lot of thinking how to get the least expensive useful hardware and then upgrade it yourself for much less.

[kjb]

Originally posted by Mr.Clicky:
I'd advise anyone considering an eMac to also pay close attention to the quality of the monitor. Although very bright the last lot shipped with brownish tints down the left hand side and blueish blotches down the right. The yumminess of 1280x960 resolution is great but things degrade if you want to go lower. Oh, and get the optional tilt n' swivel stand - these beasts are heavy!

I'll second this comment. I was just noticing the other day that the left side of my monitor is yellowish. I haven't noticed anything on the right side. I'm debating whether or not to call Apple on it.

I do though notice the "shimmer" in the monitor at moderate speaker volumes. This is somewhat frustrating, though I can live with it. The yellow/brown stuff I'm having a harder time with, though.

BTW, my eMac is roughly three months old. I purchased it right after the "upgrade" this past fall.
Kevin

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by kjb:
I do though notice the "shimmer" in the monitor at moderate speaker volumes. This is somewhat frustrating, though I can live with it. The yellow/brown stuff I'm having a harder time with, though.

BTW, my eMac is roughly three months old. I purchased it right after the "upgrade" this past fall.
Kevin

What's the story with the shimmer in the monitor at moderate volume mentioned above?

[Luca Rescigno]

The monitor is pretty poor quality. At a low refresh rate at least, the internal speakers will cause the monitor's image to shake (much like if you were to bang your hand on the side of a monitor). You can avoid the problem by using external speakers or turning down the volume on the internals, but it's an annoying design defect.

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
The monitor is pretty poor quality. At a low refresh rate at least, the internal speakers will cause the monitor's image to shake (much like if you were to bang your hand on the side of a monitor). You can avoid the problem by using external speakers or turning down the volume on the internals, but it's an annoying design defect.

Do the 75 Hz of the highest resolution qualify as "low" for this problem? And at what volume does it become disturbing (percentage wise of full volume)?

I've been following these forums some time but I didn't read anything about this before (well, maybe I was not exactly looking for it...). Well, I did some checking now and I still don't see whether the problem surfaces in every eMac or just a certain number?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by rubberduck77:
Do the 75 Hz of the highest resolution qualify as "low" for this problem? And at what volume does it become disturbing (percentage wise of full volume)?

I've been following these forums some time but I didn't read anything about this before (well, maybe I was not exactly looking for it...). Well, I did some checking now and I still don't see whether the problem surfaces in every eMac or just a certain number?

75hz is okay for many people but 80hz + is considered truly "flicker free". A small number of people complain of eyestrain after extended use at < 80hz. Its a bummer that their top two resolutions only do 75hz (but look at everything 1024x768 or less, 100hz + ... sweet). For me personally, I'd just like to see 1152x864 at 80+ ... that's the resolution I'm likely to use most often. I could live with 75 at 1280x960.

The screen shimmer issue has been around since at least the days of the iMac DV (like the one I'm currently typing on). Basically, pump up the volume and you see slight ripples emanating on the lower portion of the screen above the two internal speakers (due to their magnetic fields). In actual use, this really has never been a problem for me. I have an iSub, so cranking up the volume enough to cause the ripples means that I'm making some pretty loud noise with my iMac .. which is not something I would normally do while trying to actually work on something. I really only have it that loud if I'm just using my machine as a jukebox/stereo and otherwise not trying to work on anything serious. Of course, YMMV ..

I'd still recommend doing the upgrade to the 80 gig drive if you order from Apple .. that is worth the $50 IMHO (since an 80 gigger costs about $70 if you did it yourself). But, as you said, ordering stock would be easier. The 160 is definitely a ripoff ... except for the fact that it would keep your warranty intact. Finally .. yeah, no kidding about the ram prices ... what's up with the spike in PC133 lately ?

[rubberduck77]

Krusty, thanks a lot for your reply. Before getting my Apple LCD I used to run 1024*768 at 75 Hz and it didn't feel bad at all. So I suppose that should not be a problem.

And for the volume problem: Since the machine is probably not going to be used as a juke box or for playing music all the time, this should not be a problem either. And if the need arises, external speakers are always an option (to cancel the flickering thing out).

The 80 gig harddrive is still being considered and I'll see what my parents might need. It's €60 over here, which is about $76 for the upgrade. Yes, maybe...

I'll try to get some cheaper ram from some local vendor to avoid the current prices for branded ram sticks. Are eMacs notorious for having problems with non-brand ram?

[Luca Rescigno]

Screen refresh rates haven't been reported accurately yet, so I thought I'd chime in for the record:

1280x960 - 72 Hz
1152x864 - 80 Hz
1024x768 - 89 Hz
800x600 - 100 Hz
640x480 - 120 Hz

I'm pretty sure on the 800x600 and 640x480 refresh rates... they're very high. The other three I'm absolutely completely sure on. So 1152x864 might be the best unless you don't mind 72 Hz (I don't, but many people do). Some people can't even stand 80 Hz and have to go above 85 Hz, leaving 1024x768 as their only option (I personally think the display is ugly at that resolution though).

Anyway, the screen isn't that bad, but it's not that good either, and you're stuck with it until you sell the computer.

[Krusty]

oops ... wrong post on my part


... ah yes, I see the resolutions you are mentioning now. I was looking at the VGA Output resolutions on the tech specs page (which I mistook for the internal display resolutions).

[allmodconz]

I just got my new eMac and I absolutely love it. The screen is HUUUUGE compaired to my old iMac DVSE.
I got a great deal on this machine as well.
$999 for a 1GHz, 8o gig HD, 512 RAM, Superdrive and free tilt and swivel stand. The best part was I got Panther for free and the Ram was only 1 module so I put a 512 chip from my old machine into my new eMac and voila! 1 gig of RAM.

Here's the deal if anyone else is interested.
http://www.smalldog.com/wag13831/

I love my new machine. It's superfast.

[WhaMe]

Originally posted by allmodconz:
... The best part was I got Panther for free...

Was Panther shipped with the eMac or did you already have it?

Also, does SmallDog apply tax to orders?

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by allmodconz:
...The best part was I got Panther for free ...

I love my new machine. It's superfast.

Great to hear you like your new eMac!

Concerning Panther: Shouldn't it come with a new mac now anyway, preinstalled? Panther is out there long enough by now to be shipped with every new mac.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by allmodconz:
I just got my new eMac and I absolutely love it...

You should change your signature to commemorate your new machine.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by WhaMe:
Also, does SmallDog apply tax to orders?

Most online vendors only apply sales tax if you live in the same state that they are based out of. The same is almost certainly true with SmallDog.

[allmodconz]

No tax but they did charge me shipping. my total was $1045.

Also, jaguar was the default OS on the machine, i had to install Panther. But i did it with no worries. The machine i bought was most likely about 6 months old(hence the sales price and no Panther pre-installed) but it's still awesome. I was looking for the best deal, not the newest machine.

Again, I love my new machine. And yes, it's time to update my sig.

[WhaMe]

allmodconz-

Thanks for the info. I think I'll wait until iLife '04 is included before buying my eMac. While, the SmallDog deal is great, I wouldn't be saving any money once I updated to Panther and the new iLife.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by allmodconz:
Also, jaguar was the default OS on the machine, i had to install Panther. But i did it with no worries. The machine i bought was most likely about 6 months old(hence the sales price and no Panther pre-installed) but it's still awesome.

Cool, even though the deal you listed is over, they are still running SCREAMING good deals on the "6 month old" eMacs like the one you got. A new (meaning unopened but probably built prior to the Sept mini-rev) 1ghz/80gb/SD/1GB !! is going for $999 -- guess your tilt n' swivel was in lieu of the extra 512. That's cheaper than buying a Combo model and upping the HD to 80 and ram to 1gb. Also, check out their AppleCare prices -- always 30-50 less than retail for the various models.

So, you say they included a boxed version of Panther for free ? Have you noticed any issues with the monitor (or anything for that matter) ? How's the noise level ? What does your system profiler say about the make and model of the hard drive ?

edit: Just checked out Apple's iLife up-to-date program Here. It appears that 800mhz and 1ghz eMacs qualify for the $19.95 upgrade if they are purchased after Jan 06. Specifically, the older 1ghz superdrive model being sold at smalldog (model Z074) is eligible. Wow ... SD, 1Gb ram, 80gb hd + Panther + iLife for $999 + 19.95 iLife upgrade cost !! This is sounding more tempting every second

[Ambassadeur]

Originally posted by WhaMe:
Thanks for the info. I think I'll wait until iLife '04 is included before buying my eMac. While, the SmallDog deal is great, I wouldn't be saving any money once I updated to Panther and the new iLife.

Does anyone know when they start including iLife with the new macs shipped? I just checked the german apple store website and no mentioning of iLife on the eMac page.

[allmodconz]

Krusty,

as far as the monitor goes, the extreme left side of the monitor (that's the left side as I am looking at it while typing, etc.) is a bit darker than the rest of the screen. Not terribly noticable or annoying but it is there. I'm on the fence whether to say anything about it or not as I have plenty of screen real estate and it really doesn't bother me that much. I guess I should put a DVD in and see how it looks there. Again, this is not a big thing, but noticable.

My HD is 7200 rpm Seagate. Details here :
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...81,559,00.html

It is a bit noisy compared to my old iMac. The fan is audible but I usually have my iTunes going so it doesn't bother me.

Also the screen does shimmy slightly if you turn the music all the way up. However, i have a pair of JBL Creatures so when I have them plugged in, it's not an issue.

Also, I paid the $20 for the iLife update. It has shipped and should be here by Wednesday or so. V. excited.

Bottom line: It's not "perfect" but i love my new eMac. Budget was a big factor for me and I feel like I spent my money well. My machine feels super fast and the monitor is huuuuuge compared to my old iMac.

[WOPR]

My brother just bought an eMac and I panicked when I saw the screen shimmying but we did have the volume to maximum, which we wouldn't normally do when using the Mac so I guess it's not a problem. Surprised it does it though - I would have expected better than that from Apple. But then I guess it is only £649.

[kath delore]

I just got a smalldog refurb 1ghz emac for $699. Shipping was $25, no sales tax, and it included Panther and the full iLife. You couldn't tell it had even been used--it looked brand new. Screen is crisp and problem-free. The shimmer is considered normal at high volume. I recommend speakers: i have a set of Creative Labs iTrigue speakers hooked up and can play house-shaking volume without a shimmer.

[Big Mac]

Most everyone recommended the 80GB hard drive. Perhaps it makes sense from a performance point of view, but 80GBs is overkill for most people's parents. Unless you're doing something like the following, even a 20GB drive would be sufficient:

A) Video production - the most disk space intensive thing one can do. Typically, compressed DV takes up 3.5MBs per second, so do the math - disk space gets occupied very quickly!

B) Professional Image Editing/Production (with Photoshop)

C) Digital Music - If you have a large album collection that you want to rip with iTunes, that can eat up space. MP3s are about 4-6MBs each.

If your parents are computing neophytes, there is little chance that they will ever get close to filling a 40GB drive.