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Diggory Laycock · 12:12 PM

Hi,

I have an old G4 (450MHz Yikes! model) that I use as a Server.

A while after I installed Jaguar on it I replaced the built-in CD-ROM for a fast Lite-on CD Writer.

Since all appeared well I sold the original CD-ROM.

I'd like to update the G4 to Panther, but I've just had a nasty shock - since I installed the CD writer the machine won't boot off anything other than the normal boot volume.

It doesn't boot off CDs, FireWire CD Burners, FireWire Hard Drives (not sure if it ever did that) and it won't go into FireWire Target mode. Also, when I press option on start-up it doesn't even go to that screen that allows you to choose the boot volume.

Does anyone know:

How can I install Panther on this machine?
Why is it doing this?

Argh

Cadaver · Jan 26, 2004, 12:42 PM

FireWire booting and FireWire target disk mode were not introduced until the Sawtooth motherboard, so no surprise your Yikes! wont do it.

Sounds like your optical drive is not Mac bootable. Your two options would be to replace it with a drive that is known to be Mac bootable (see CDRW drive database at xlr8yourmac.com) or put the Yikes' hard drive in to another machine (internally or in a FireWire case) and install Panther on to it from there, then return the HD to the Yikes!.

Oh, the Option key at start up trick should work on these machines, but it wont come up if there isn't more than one bootable volume - and on your machine at the moment, there isn't more than one. Same behavior on my blue & white G3 (essentially the same machine).

Diggory Laycock · Jan 26, 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:
FireWire booting and FireWire target disk mode were not introduced until the Sawtooth motherboard, so no surprise your Yikes! wont do it.

Ah! For some reason I assumed all new-world machines could do that

Sounds like your optical drive is not Mac bootable. Your two options would be to replace it with a drive that is known to be Mac bootable (see CDRW drive database at xlr8yourmac.com) or put the Yikes' hard drive in to another machine (internally or in a FireWire case) and install Panther on to it from there, then return the HD to the Yikes!.

As I sort of suspected - damn, That means Spending cash!

Oh, the Option key at start up trick should work on these machines, but it wont come up if there isn't more than one bootable volume - and on your machine at the moment, there isn't more than one. Same behavior on my blue & white G3 (essentially the same machine).

Ah - that would explain why it used to do it and it doesn't any more.

Thanks very much - most informative - I've always been more of a software person than a hardware person.

tooki · Jan 26, 2004, 04:29 PM

If it is indeed a PCI-based Mac, then it cannot boot from USB or FireWire, nor can it enter Target Disk Mode, nor does it have the option-key boot selector. All of those functions come as a package, so to speak, in AGP Macs (may require firmware update on early AGP Macs).

tooki

Cadaver · Jan 26, 2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
...nor does it have the option-key boot selector.

Actually, Tooki, the B&W G3s and Yikes! G4s do have the Open Firmware boot selector (I do it all the time on my B&W G3/900 at the office).

tooki · Jan 26, 2004, 08:21 PM

I'll have to double-check that on mine once I unpack my Apple keyboard -- it's never worked on my G3/350.

tooki

Diggory Laycock · Jan 27, 2004, 05:16 AM

I do remember it working before on my Yikes! - but as Cadaver said - now I only have one bootable volume present - it does not appear.

tooki · Jan 28, 2004, 04:00 AM

So I dug out an Apple USB Keyboard and did some tests (e.g. test on a reboot, test from powered off, etc). My B&W G3/350, which has two hard drives -- one of which has OS X and Classic installed, the other just OS 9 -- absolutely does not have the boot selector. It's a Rev. B B&W (in fact, only about a month before the G4 was released), so it's not that I have some early firmware.

I have never seen a B&W do it, and until this thread, I'd never heard of it (other threads on this forum are consistent with my findings that B&W's do not give the boot selector).

tooki

P.S. Oh and yes, I did test the keyboard first to make sure it wasn't malfunctioning.

tooki · Jan 28, 2004, 04:11 AM

Well, I did some research on Apple's site, and found out that the option key boot selector -- known as "Startup Manager" was introduced with AGP Macs and is "present on all later models". (All the models they list are the first AGP model in each respective product line.)

Here's the link to the Kbase article.

So, to those of you who claim to be doing it... either you have a different model than you believe, or you have a different model than you believe -- or you have done something miraculous that you need to share with all of us.

I absolutely stand by my statement that the following functions came as a package deal with the introduction of AGP Macs:
-AGP graphics (duh)
-FireWire target disk mode
-Ability to boot from USB and FireWire devices
-Startup Manager

tooki

Cadaver · Jan 28, 2004, 08:16 AM

OK... so I gave it try on my B&W G3 at the office. Perhaps I exaggerated when I said I do it all the time, but I could have sworn I've done it several times in the past. However, it appears my memory is failing me, as Tooki is corrent. No workie. I also have several other new-world machines, so my head must be a jumble of Mac-memories.

My apologies, Mr. Tooki sir.

[wayne&garth] We're not worthy! [/wayne&garth]

kentuckyfried · Jan 24, 2005, 09:46 PM

i tried several times last night to boot my old B&W into target disk mode, but it failed completely.

I just got my dad a mini mac, it's going to be a pain to transfer all his stuff manual. Maybe not that bad, but irritating enough. Grrr...

too bad they didn't introduce that sort of thing earlier.

reader50 · Jan 25, 2005, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
...
How can I install Panther on this machine?
...

If you ignored all the people who foo-foo partitioning and happen to have a spare partition handy, you can install Panther without spending any extra money. Even a 5 GB spare partition should be enough.

Copy the entire Panther CD to the spare partition. You'll want to make all files visible first. Select the partition, and get info on it. Set access permissions so everyone has read/write. Apply to encolosed items. This is so the installer won't hang if it tries to write to a temp folder or something.

Boot from the new partition, you will boot into the Panther installer. Proceed with the update.

Chito · Jan 25, 2005, 08:03 PM

Diggory, too bad you're in London. I've got the original 32x cd rom from my yikes machine that I would have been willing to sell you cheap....but I really don't want to deal with the hassles of international shipping....sorry.

Detrius · Jan 25, 2005, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
I absolutely stand by my statement that the following functions came as a package deal with the introduction of AGP Macs:
-AGP graphics (duh)
-FireWire target disk mode
-Ability to boot from USB and FireWire devices
-Startup Manager

tooki

For some reason, I was thinking that I had not been able to get G4s older than the Digital Audio to boot from FireWire. I can't find anything on the internet to back that up, though--everything supports your claim.

yikes600 · Jan 26, 2005, 12:57 AM

tooki's right