[Asystole]

My roomate is sick of bringing his Acer in to repair every other week, and is envious of the style and reliability of my Mac. Now that his monitor is blown, he wants me to build him a cheap Macintosh.

His needs consist of the following:

- web browsing, email, AIM
- music downloads and listening
- movies downloading and viewing
- simple word processing
- burning CDs

Here's my idea:

MegaMacs sells a B&W G3 with a G4/500 installed for $399. They sell a 17" B&W display for $49 with purchase of any system. I can use the PC133 memory and IDE hard drives out of his existing computer to save some cash. I can pick up a cheap CD/RW with iTunes support for cd burning (anyone recommend any?) I'll also grab a used PCI Radeon or Voodoo off eBay and hack it for Quartz Extreme support.

I figure for around $600, he will have the following setup:

Blue & White G4 @ 500
768MB PC133 RAM
6gb, 20gb, 40gb HDD's
52X CD-RW
PCI Radeon or Voodoo graphics
17" Blue & White Monitor

Any suggestions?

[Lateralus]

Hello.

If this will be your friends introduction to the Mac, help make it a good one. In order to do that, you might want to start out with a slightly higher end machine. Now, don't get me wrong, the B&W is a fantastic machine and probably my all time favorite Mac desktop. I had one myself not two months ago.

The problem with the B&W is that after it were upgraded to a level that would provide a good user experience, there wouldn't be any head room for future expandability. The lack of AGP, and ZIF based processor design will really hurt the machine.

I would personally turn my eyes towards eBay. You can find the occasional G4 Sawtooth for as little as $300-400 with the Buy It Now option. The Sawtooth, while approximately the same age as the B&W, would provide a much better long term experience. Not only is it capable of taking 2GBs of RAM, twice that of the B&W, but it has a newer processor interface design. The best processor upgrade for the daughtercard based Sawtooth is currently a blazing fast 1.5GHz G4 upgrade from OWC. Dual processor upgrades are also available. Yet the best upgrade for the ZIF-processor based B&W is the G3 900 card. And while Sonnet recently released a 1GHz G4 upgrade for the B&W, it forces the system to run at a bus speed of 66MHz instead of ths stock 100MHz. The difference in bus speed would make the G3 900 the better processor in the end, IMO.

Another thing that the Sawtooth has over the B&W is a better ATA controller, ATA-66 vs ATA-33 in the B&W. The difference in data transfer rate is substantial, and something that is noticeable during everyday tasks.

And of course: AGP. Yes, with a Radeon PCI card QuartzExtreme can be enabled on the B&W through a hack. But it is not native QuartzExtreme, and it is far from perect. There are a few glitches in the user interface when dealing with video.

As far as the monitor: Yes, $50 for that B&W monitor at MegaMacs is a good deal... before shipping. Once shipping is factored in, I doubt you will see it as of good of a deal. My advice would be to just hunt around town a little for a nice gently used high quality CRT. You would be surprised how cheap they can be, especially if you look at the Sunday classifieds in your paper.

In the end, as I said, I think the Sawtooth would be a much better introduction to the Macintosh. And with the level of expandability that it provides, it would give a very positive impression to a new Mac user in terms of the amount of time a Macintosh can be kept.

Good luck!

[slider]

Well, a brand new eMac has a 1GHz G4, a combo drive so he can watch DVD's and burn CDs, which already supports iTunes. 133 system bus, firewire, vga out, compact size 7500 ATI radeon with 32MB of ram, 17" flat screen display and one full year of Apple warranty all for $799. Of course you'll need to up the ram, but it's standard 133 ram which you could take from another machine, oh, and it has a 40 GHz HD. yeah, it's gonna be like $250 more once you get extra ram, but think of al the time you'll save. Of course it won't be as fun Well, just consider it. If this is his first Mac you'll want to make sure he has a good experience with it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[tooki]

Frankly, I don't think your idea is a good one. It's not gonna make him like the Mac if that's his first experience.

Additionally, your budget isn't realistic. You're talking about $200 (at least) worth of upgrades onto a $400 computer, plus $50 for a monitor, and this is all before shipping and taxes.

I concur than an eMac is the way to go. For the same money as the cobbled-together G3, you can get an eMac, or even a used G4 tower (that is, an AGP Mac born as a G4).

Note also that your research is wrong: you can barely make a Voodoo card work in OS X at all, much less support Quartz Extreme!!!

tooki

[Asystole]

A refurb G4/700 eMac is only $599.

It's a lot more machine. But less fun

Thanks for the help anyway.

[bimmerphile]

STOP


Warning, this is a BAD Idea!!!!

How do I know? I built a mac from scratch over the summer.

I have used macs for 17 years, and am a certified apple tech.

NEVER AGAIN!!!!

When you mix/match parts, it is bound to backfire. Trust me, it will.

Expecially if you're trying to show your PC friend the reliability of a mac, this will NOT do it!

Please trust me on this ojne, and learn from my mistakes. Get him a refurb.

[redJag]

err, nevermind. sorry, sold

[DrBoar]

Bimmerphile?
I replaced the motherboard of my 7200 with a 7600 MB of ebay and added a 200 Mhz 604E card from a 7300. Worked like a charm in OS 8 and 9 and now does sterling service in 10.1.5

The only snag was that the 256K L2 from the 7300 would not work in the 7600 with the 604E CPU (it worked with the 100 Mhz 601 from a 7500) but a 512k L2 from the 7200 worked OK in both 7600 and 7500.

So I really can not agree on the "When you mix/match parts, it is bound to backfire. Trust me, it will" statement. However, sometimes very odd problems do surface and then it is good to have a pile of alternative parts.

[Luca Rescigno]

My machine is somewhat "mixed and matched" as well, and it seems fine. After I got it (it's a dual 450), I added two hard drives, replaced the optical drive twice, added a PCI card, changed the AGP graphics card, oh and I am using a PS/2 keyboard using an adapter. Everything works together perfectly.

An eMac would work, yes, but if he's used to PCs then he might prefer a used tower. It might end up being more than $600, but not by much. And it'll give you nearly as good performance as an equivalently priced 700 MHz eMac, with greater expandability. Scour eBay for a $500 older dual processor machine - they are there sometimes. Even the slowest G4 Dual, the 450 MHz one, is plenty fast in OS X for anything you'll need to do.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
My machine is somewhat "mixed and matched" as well, and it seems fine. After I got it (it's a dual 450), I added two hard drives, replaced the optical drive twice, added a PCI card, changed the AGP graphics card, oh and I am using a PS/2 keyboard using an adapter. Everything works together perfectly.

What you have done is pretty 'normal'...

Adding hard drives, graphics cards, PCI cards, and even changing optical drives, are all mods 'designed' to be done in the life of the machine if needed... They will present no problem for 99% of the time.

To me, Processor upgrades and mixing and matching 'hacked' parts not meant for that machine is a total different ball game...

As you say, I would go for an early decent dual G4...

[bimmerphile]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
What you have done is pretty 'normal'...

Adding hard drives, graphics cards, PCI cards, and even changing optical drives, are all mods 'designed' to be done in the life of the machine if needed... They will present no problem for 99% of the time.

To me, Processor upgrades and mixing and matching 'hacked' parts not meant for that machine is a total different ball game...

As you say, I would go for an early decent dual G4...

What he said.

[ourisman]

Unless cost is a severe factor, I'd look for an inexpensive color monitor. I'd also check out used iMacs on eBay.

[ourisman]

some sample eBay prices...

700mHz iMac for $600.

333 mHz iMac for $99

bottom line: there are *lots* of great bargains out there.

[Eug]

eMac 1 GHz Refurbished - $849 (from the Apple Store)
256MB
80GB
SuperDrive

eMac 1 GHz new - $800 (or cheaper if you have an educational discount)
128MB
40GB
Combo drive

[Lateralus]

I'm still sticking with my recommendation of a Sawtooth from eBay.

All of my Macs have been cobbled together, and they have all been fantastic. There is nothing wrong with processor upgrades, new video cards, RAM, IDE controllers, etc etc... They're towers for a reason.

[cowerd]

I'm still sticking with my recommendation of a Sawtooth from eBay.

All of my Macs have been cobbled together, and they have all been fantastic.

It's not your Mac.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by cowerd:
It's not your Mac.

Thats right, but he asked for input on throwing one together smart ass.

[ourisman]

eMac with educational pricing (from apple's web site) = $749. Brand new, with full warranty!

[fulmer]

low RAM would also kill a good user experience. Even 256 MB is low nowadays if you want to run OS X and other apps.

[Eriamjh]

eMac plus more RAM gets my vote.

[-Q-]

I'd say if your friend is the type who likes to tinker, get him a used G4. If he merely wants to perform the tasks you listed, then get the eMac. Either one should have as much RAM as you can afford.

And I had a beige G3 with a Radeon, two new HDDs, the DVD personality card, new ethernet PCI card, USB/FireWire card and an upgraded processor. Worked fine all the way thru 10.2.8. And it's still kicking working as my music server. So no, not all processor upgrades are bad. Just the one you did.

[weemsc]

sometimes www.retrobox.com lists macs on their site and normally pretty good deals. I didn't see any when I just checked but go try again tomorow, they upgrade frequently.
-Chris.
btw (my vote is for the e-mac)

[masugu]

Suck it up and get an entry level iBook. Technology waits for now man. Not sure what that means...but I have always regretted it when I cheap out on technology...always endup paying more - some how

[Lateralus]

Why would you recommend an iBook to somebody that is trying to get a versatile desktop? Especially when they've made it clear that money is an issue.

[DeathToWindows]

eMac... fast enough for what you've listed, cheap enough to be possible.

get a refurb! they're great machines, I admin a network conaining a few of them and they're no trouble... just get extra RAM!

[masugu]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Why would you recommend an iBook to somebody that is trying to get a versatile desktop? Especially when they've made it clear that money is an issue.

Sorry bad reading comprehension scores for me today...never mind.

[milhous]

And the verdict Asystole?

[unregistered]

Originally posted by ourisman:
Unless cost is a severe factor, I'd look for an inexpensive color monitor. I'd also check out used iMacs on eBay.

I think when he said BW he was referring to the Apple Blue and White monitor which was the color of the case. Not Black and White.

See here:
http://www.megamacs.com/v1/index.php...mp;pid=1567014