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typoon · Feb 26, 2004, 06:22 PM

This machine used to be a B&W server 450 I believe. I have everything setup right but when I put the OS X Panther CD in the drive it doesn't boot from the CD. Are these machines not compatible with Panther? If so Would I be able to install an older version of OS X on it?

When I boot from the CD in OS 9 the monitor comes up and allows me to install. But under the Panthter disk the monitor doesn't come up at all. It just sits dark.

this is a friend's machine he would like OS X on this machine if at all possible. I ran the firmware updater and it said firmware is up to date. I'm doing this from an OS 9.2.2 CD.

Any Help would be GREATLY appreciated. this one has me stumped

i_wolf · Feb 26, 2004, 06:45 PM

you could try putting the panther cd in your drive while in os 9. Then restart. Then hold down the option button (alt) , while the machine starts up and hold it down until you get a manu, install from cd should be one of them I think ..... (this works with newer powermac's .... maybe it will work for you on your one ??? not sure.. but worth a shot.)
Best of luck
i_wolf

Macola · Feb 26, 2004, 09:03 PM

Try installing OS 9 first, if you haven't already done that.

Big Max · Feb 26, 2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by typoon:
This machine used to be a B&W server 450 I believe. I have everything setup right but when I put the OS X Panther CD in the drive it doesn't boot from the CD. Are these machines not compatible with Panther? If so Would I be able to install an older version of OS X on it?

When I boot from the CD in OS 9 the monitor comes up and allows me to install. But under the Panthter disk the monitor doesn't come up at all. It just sits dark.

this is a friend's machine he would like OS X on this machine if at all possible. I ran the firmware updater and it said firmware is up to date. I'm doing this from an OS 9.2.2 CD.

Any Help would be GREATLY appreciated. this one has me stumped

I had this problem on my B&W and I thought the same thing. If you can still boot up into OS 9, change your screen resolution from 1024X768 to 800X600 then shut down and boot with the Panther CD. It should work now.

Cadaver · Feb 27, 2004, 07:08 AM

Odd problem.
I've installed OS X (Panther) on my B&W G3 without any problem. The machines are definitely supported by Panther, so thats not it.
Stock CD drive, or has it been replaced with a different model? This could be a cause of booting trouble, too.

angelmb · Feb 27, 2004, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by i_wolf:
you could try putting the panther cd in your drive while in os 9. Then restart. Then hold down the option button (alt) , while the machine starts up and hold it down until you get a manu, install from cd should be one of them I think ..... (this works with newer powermac's .... maybe it will work for you on your one ??? not sure.. but worth a shot.)
Best of luck
i_wolf

That will not work with a B&W G3, I know it

As Cadaver says, is the cd drive the original one? If it is the stock drive and even so it does not work, try to get a used Apple internal dvd drive from another B&W, G4..., so you can run the Panther DVD Player even with the stock ATI Rage 128. I did it. Actually I have a Radeon 7000 so I can not run the X Server 10.0 (platinum interface).

typoon · Feb 27, 2004, 12:00 PM

I installed a Pioneer SuperDrive. I KNOW those are supported by OS X and the Mac. It is even recognized as an Apple Drive when I bring up System Profiler.

I was able to install Jagwire on it. Still having problems installing Panther though. I might try the screen resolution thing and see if that works. If not I'll just leave it wht Jag on it. It has it's orginial Video Card. It works fine booting from Jag and from OS 9 so I'm still stumped as to why it doesn't work with the Panther CD. It should I assume. I don't think this machine has AGP video.

Cadaver · Feb 28, 2004, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by typoon:
I installed a Pioneer SuperDrive. I KNOW those are supported by OS X and the Mac. It is even recognized as an Apple Drive when I bring up System Profiler.

I was able to install Jagwire on it. Still having problems installing Panther though. I might try the screen resolution thing and see if that works. If not I'll just leave it wht Jag on it. It has it's orginial Video Card. It works fine booting from Jag and from OS 9 so I'm still stumped as to why it doesn't work with the Panther CD. It should I assume. I don't think this machine has AGP video.

The aftermarket drive could still easily be the issue. If it doesn't have Apple firmware on it, it could cause boot trouble even if otherwise fully supported by the OS.

Put the stock CD drive back in and try installing. Once completed, reinstall the superdrive.

As for AGP, you are correct. The blue & white G3s have no AGP slot - it has three 33MHz PCI slots and a 66MHz PCI slot (the one furthest from the power supply when the case is open). The 66MHz slot has essentially the same bandwidth as a 1x AGP slot, though compatible only with PCI-based graphics cards: Rage 128, Radeon Mac Edition, Radeon 7000. A few people have reported success with some PCI-based GeForce 2MX based cards, though I wouldn't count on these. Besides, the original Radeon Mac Edition card is still currently the fastest PCI-based card available for the Mac, though it doesn't support dual displays like the Radeon 7000 does.

ATI has been showing off a Radeon 9000-based PCI card, but release date is unknown.

drHo · Feb 28, 2004, 10:13 AM

some peeps in xlr8yourmac.com forums have succesfully flashed (PC) Radeon 9100 64mb PCI's.....and (PC) GeForce 5200 Ultra's PCI's....

http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/cgi-bin/f...m=Video+Cards+(other+than+3dfx+Chip+Types)&number=24&Day sPrune=45&LastLogin=

typoon · Mar 2, 2004, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:
The aftermarket drive could still easily be the issue. If it doesn't have Apple firmware on it, it could cause boot trouble even if otherwise fully supported by the OS.

Put the stock CD drive back in and try installing. Once completed, reinstall the superdrive.

As for AGP, you are correct. The blue & white G3s have no AGP slot - it has three 33MHz PCI slots and a 66MHz PCI slot (the one furthest from the power supply when the case is open). The 66MHz slot has essentially the same bandwidth as a 1x AGP slot, though compatible only with PCI-based graphics cards: Rage 128, Radeon Mac Edition, Radeon 7000. A few people have reported success with some PCI-based GeForce 2MX based cards, though I wouldn't count on these. Besides, the original Radeon Mac Edition card is still currently the fastest PCI-based card available for the Mac, though it doesn't support dual displays like the Radeon 7000 does.

ATI has been showing off a Radeon 9000-based PCI card, but release date is unknown.

The odd thing is that it Boots from the Jag CD just fine. Just not Panther. Is Panther not able to be installed on the B&W's? So Unless they changed something I'm begining to think it isn't compaitble with Panther.

MikeyMoves · Mar 2, 2004, 10:18 PM

this may sound silly, but are you sure there is enough ram in the machine to support Panther? I think there is a difference in required ram between jag and panther. Just throwing an idea out there.

GOod Luck!

Big Mac · Mar 3, 2004, 05:00 AM

I suppose you could install Panther on another drive using a different Mac and then try to CarbonCopyClone it.

angelmb · Mar 3, 2004, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by typoon:
The odd thing is that it Boots from the Jag CD just fine. Just not Panther. Is Panther not able to be installed on the B&W's? So Unless they changed something I'm begining to think it isn't compaitble with Panther.

B&W are fully supported by Panther. Does it have a scsi card? (due it is a server G3)

apreston · Mar 4, 2004, 08:34 PM

B&W's can only boot from the stock Apple DVD drive. I always suspected this and then finally found a post on Apple's boards that confirmed it.

In my B&W 400, I replaced the original with a CD-RW drive. When I need to do system install I lay the case on its side, open the door up and away such that it rests on its hinges, plug the drive in, and hope it doesn't vibrate so much that it falls off. Inconvenient, to say the least.

Unfortunately, the last couple times I've tried to boot from the CD I've gotten errors that look like the drive is starting to fail. Once it's gone, doing installs is going to be a real pain involving removing the HD or possibly using FireWire target mode.

Andrew.

Lateralus · Mar 4, 2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by apreston:
B&W's can only boot from the stock Apple DVD drive. I always suspected this and then finally found a post on Apple's boards that confirmed it.

Incorrect.

My B&W Rev2 450MHz booted fine from both my LiteON 165H 16x DVD-ROM and my LiteON 52327S 52x32x52x CD-RW drive. I first installed Panther using the burner and then installed Panther again a few months later with the DVD after I had moved the CD-RW to an external case.

Coldwater · Mar 6, 2004, 08:25 AM

Have you tried cleaning the Panther CD, or seeing if it can be seen in your Mac as an

installer. If put in the CD drive, does it show up in the system prefs, startup disk?

MikeyMoves mentioned Ram, so is all the ram PC-100 8ns, which was one of the

issues I had when trying to install Panther. The other issue was the controller.

Installed a ATA 133/100 now run four HDs without any problems, five OSX 3.2, three

OS 9.2.2 I'm sure you are aware that you could take out the HD, put it your Mac,

install Panther and put it back in the B&W. I mean, what are friends for?

typoon · Mar 10, 2004, 01:10 PM

Hmmmm Interesting suggestions. I took out the SCSI Card so it's just running on IDE. Still not able to install Panther. the suggestion to install the drive in my machine then install panther then put back in should work. Didn't think of that. the odd thing is that I got Panter installed on there once but now it won't install again.

rhansen_x · Mar 11, 2004, 08:57 AM

Typoon, I feel your pain. I've got a B&W that I have given up trying to put Panther on. I have looked at every post I could and every KB article etc etc etc. No matter what I have tried (ram, original cd rom, different drives) I get the same result; during boot up, the grey bars spin then freeze. Punt.

typoon · Mar 12, 2004, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by rhansen_x:
Typoon, I feel your pain. I've got a B&W that I have given up trying to put Panther on. I have looked at every post I could and every KB article etc etc etc. No matter what I have tried (ram, original cd rom, different drives) I get the same result; during boot up, the grey bars spin then freeze. Punt.

Well this machine isn't for me so I'm not as concerned as I would be if it was. Just getting this person to OS X will be a big change. He is currently using an older G3 with 9.2 on it. He also just got a new sound mixing board that requires OS X so I figured Panther would be good for him. If OS X Jag runs on it I'm not going to worry about it. I'll just install that.

David Lee · Mar 13, 2004, 02:10 PM

I am not sure about this, but my gut feeling is that this problem is RAM related. Specifically, any RAM that is not 100% good can cause that problem, as can a mix of different RAM chips (OS X, especially the Panther and Jaguar CDs, are Sensitive!) .I have a beige G3 that absolutely refuses to install OS X with 256MB chips installed, although it will run well with the same chips after the install is completed. Try using 128MB chips (1 or 2) only, and see what happens. Then add your original RAM, one chip at a time. If you get random crashes you can then find the bad one(s)!
All out of other ideas.
Good Luck.