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daSilVetZ · Mar 16, 2004, 01:42 PM

Hello all, You may or may not remember, 9 days ago exactly I bought a brand new G4 1.25 SP from my local Apple Store.. and I truly love it. But now I'm thinking.. today is the last day really for me to return it, and I'm seriously contemplating exchanging it for a G5 1.6 as I can't afford the dual 1.8 although i'd love one. Not only will that extend my return potential by another 10 days (to encompass next tuesday which may bring further price drops to the current line, and maybe new g5's), but i would also be a proud owner of a g5. Now, as much as I'm convinced just by looking at the tech specs that the G5 1.6 should be WAY faster than my G4 1.25 in all ways, i keep on reading how the 1.6 doesnt perform too well in benchmarks.. for example, althoguh I know that xbench isnt exactly the best way to truthfully bench mac's, I have found it to be pretty consistent with my machines in general, and so i cant seem to find a huge difference between my g4 1.25 which scored 144, and most of the other g5 1.6's.. do you people think its worth the extra $400 id be spending if i were to get the G5 1.6? Thanks, I appreciate all input!

Lateralus · Mar 16, 2004, 01:44 PM

I'd just keep it. The MDD is a refined final revision machine, that is a nice thing to have. Plus, frankly, the G5 1.6 is the 'Yikes!' of the G5 line.

But if you really want to swap machines, I suggest that you play around with a 1.6 first. IMO, they are not that fast, and very overrated.

yoesh · Mar 16, 2004, 02:18 PM

keep it. unless you really enjoy boxing things back up and returning them.

the 1.6 G5 is NOT markedly superior to the 1.25 G4, and many would argue that the shortcomings of the 1.6 G5 (PCI slots, not PCI-X; limited RAM expansion, etc) are not dissimilar to the "Yikes" model fiasco (the first lowend G4 tower that had a G3 mobo with a G4 CPU, and thus, not all of the goodness that made the G4s so much better than the G3s -- check it out at: http://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4.shtml).

The 1.8 G5 would be a significant and worthwhile step up. The 1.6 wouldn't (IMHO).

3.1416 · Mar 16, 2004, 02:18 PM

I wouldn't bother with the 1.6. Either go all the way to a dual 1.8, or keep what you have.

daSilVetZ · Mar 16, 2004, 02:38 PM

hmm, really? Well, I'm not botherd by the 4GB RAM limit and the PCI-X slot really beacuase I will never have need for either.. however i felt that upgrading to newer technologies such as FW 800, airport extreme, USB 2.0, faster bus speed, and a 64bit platform (for all the future and current optimized apps), would be worth the $400, even though i know the raw speed increase would not be significant- no?

daiSho · Mar 16, 2004, 04:18 PM

sorry to muddy the waters here, but 'd swap it out for the G5 1.6GHz myself... even w/ the lowest speed model of the G5 you will benefit from the much higer bus speeds and memory latency, not to mention much better headroom for future gfx card upgrades. theres always the possibility that one of the aftermarket companies will offer G5 accelerators that could work in the 1.6 machine (no duals thought), but a near zero chance of a G5 upgrade for that MDD..

djohnson · Mar 16, 2004, 07:49 PM

I gotta agree too. Go for the G5!

scottiB · Mar 16, 2004, 09:32 PM

Swap for the G5--in a heartbeat.

WizOSX · Mar 17, 2004, 12:33 AM

If you do a simple average of the MacSpeedZone tests, the 1.6 G5 is 26% faster than the SP 1.25 G4. Is that worth $400 to you? Only you can decide. However, for the extra $400 you do get a Superdrive. If you deduct $150 for the Superdrive, then the G5 is 26% more money than the G4! So its a very close call. Obviously Apple thinks about these sorts of numbers when then choose their prices.

If it were me, I'd swap for the G5. There is no doubt that the next big push by Apple will be major tweaks and optimizations geared specifically to G5/64 bit. In that sense, I think a 1.6 G5 may look better than just about any G4 in a year or so.

The Placid Casual · Mar 17, 2004, 01:54 AM

You are somewhat more 'future-proof' with the G5, as I would expect resale value to be much, much better than a G4 based machine.

If you can change, change.

chris v · Mar 17, 2004, 10:55 AM

There may come a day not too far from now when you'll be able to upgrade the G5 1.6 to a faster G5, but that's not gonna happen with the G4. As much as I love the dual G4 machines, I've gotta say in the long run (looking years down the road) you'd be better off with a G5.

CV

Eriamjh · Mar 17, 2004, 11:13 AM

Wouldn't you have to pay a restocking fee on the G4? Wouldn't that cut into your margin? You might as well keep it if so.

TiDual · Mar 18, 2004, 06:34 AM

The G4 will probably hold it's value reasonably (since you paid the post-G5 price anyway). My advice would be to hang on to it for a while, and then upgrade when you can afford a middle of the range dual.

jade408 · Mar 19, 2004, 07:04 PM

I say get the g5. More potential upgrades, superdrive and newer ports. If you use garageband you will notice the difference. 2gb RAM chips make it possible to get to 8gbs. The new ATI video cards are g5 only.

Lateralus · Mar 19, 2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by jade408:
I say get the g5. More potential upgrades, superdrive and newer ports. If you use garageband you will notice the difference. 2gb RAM chips make it possible to get to 8gbs. The new ATI video cards are g5 only.

The G4 can use the same SuperDrives. And the Radeon 9800 Pro retail will work in the G4s fine.

MrForgetable · Mar 20, 2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by jade408:
I say get the g5. More potential upgrades, superdrive and newer ports. If you use garageband you will notice the difference. 2gb RAM chips make it possible to get to 8gbs. The new ATI video cards are g5 only.

i think the 1.6 G5 only will accept 4 gigs..

Lateralus · Mar 20, 2004, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by MrForgetable:
i think the 1.6 G5 only will accept 4 gigs..

With 1GB DIMMs.

The 2GB DIMMs work, giving it a maximum of 8GBs. The 1.8, Dual 1.8 and Dual 2.0 will work with 2GB DIMMs, giving them a max of 16GBs.

rambo47 · 08:33 AM

Do not be seduced my the speed of AirPort Extreme </Yoda>. The only time you will see an increase in wireless speed only if you're transferring huge files between two AE-equipped computers. Just about every broadband company caps user speed at 2.5 MBPS, and no one gets anywhere near that upper limit. But if you did get the max throughput speed it still wouldn't come near AirPort standard's top speed of 11 MBPS. All this talk of AE's 54 MBPS speed is totally unnecessary for most of us. We'll simply never take advantage of it.

Now, it it gives you better signal strength that's something. I haven't noticed this on my own home network, however. For me there's no difference. I replaced my graphite ABS with a new AirPort Extreme Base Station when it died. I went with the AEBS for the really nifty feature of the USB port for a printer. All the Macs in the house, both AE and Standard, can print from the one printer downstairs, and all wirelessly.

Anyway, I'd stick with your current machine rather than the single processor 1.6 GHz G5. Of course, lots of folks are speculating that the G5 towers will get an update in early April. Price drops on current models will surely fall yet again.

rhogue islander · Mar 20, 2004, 09:15 AM

Judging by dasilvetz's signature, it appears that he ended up with the G5 1.6.

Which begs another question: how does he like it over the 1.25 sp G4 he had before?

danbrew · Mar 20, 2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
With 1GB DIMMs.

The 2GB DIMMs work, giving it a maximum of 8GBs. The 1.8, Dual 1.8 and Dual 2.0 will work with 2GB DIMMs, giving them a max of 16GBs.

If this guy is so worried about the $400 difference, you gotta think that he probably ain't gonna by buying 2 gb dimms anytime soon.

What about the restocking fee?

What about all the time you spent loading software on the first machine? Does your time have a value associated with it?

Also, come on, is it fair to use the 10-day return period as extended "try it before you 'really' buy it?" Doesn't sound too ethical to me.

Lateralus · Mar 20, 2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by danbrew:
If this guy is so worried about the $400 difference, you gotta think that he probably ain't gonna by buying 2 gb dimms anytime soon.

I was just explaining what jade408 said for MrForgetable since he didn't seem to understand it.

WizOSX · Mar 20, 2004, 08:57 PM

daSilVetZ--I don't know if you've decided yet. But you may find the following quote from a column today in Insanely Great Mac interesting:

"And, whatever anyone says, even the low-end 1.6MHz G5 is a block ahead of any G4 past or present."

http://www.insanelygreatmac.com/news.php?id=3227

Lateralus · Mar 20, 2004, 10:58 PM

(Nevermind)

rsgunther · Mar 20, 2004, 11:03 PM

Did you make your decision yet? What did you do? Return the G4 or keep it?

superfula · Mar 20, 2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by WizOSX:
daSilVetZ--I don't know if you've decided yet. But you may find the following quote from a column today in Insanely Great Mac interesting:

"And, whatever anyone says, even the low-end 1.6MHz G5 is a block ahead of any G4 past or present."

http://www.insanelygreatmac.com/news.php?id=3227

Who cares. If it was a good Mac website, I may think twice about it. Bottom line: They're wrong.

Lateralus · Mar 21, 2004, 01:37 AM

Indeed. Even Hannibal of Ars warns against the rampant G5 love and sudden G4 hatred. The G5 is less of a leap over the G4 architecturaly than everybody likes to think.

WizOSX · Mar 21, 2004, 02:15 AM

What I find disturbing about the direction of this thread, and some others like it recently, is this:

Clearly, there are people coming to this forum who have bought, or are just about to buy, a new 1.6 G5. They've paid good money for an absolutely superb computer. A dual G5 is just more machine than they need. And they're pleased with their purchase because it is a very fast, powerful computer. And then they see comments in some recent threads like "get the dual 1.8 or nothing," "the 1.6 G5 is nothing great," "its a dead end machine," "its not forward looking" or its "like the Yikes fiasco." And they are going to feel that there is some hidden "bad" about the machine or like they are second class citizens here. And this doesn't make any sense. Comparing the 1.6 G5 to Yikes is ridiculous. Yikes a was a quickie attempt by Apple to just get a G4 out the door on an old motherboard design. The 1.6 G5 motherboard was designed new from the ground up specifically for the G5. It has been praised, along with the other G5s, by many publications outside the Apple community for its engineering. While it makes sense to point out the advantages of the higher end machines over the 1.6 G5, it doen't make sense to unnecessarily, and incorrectly, make negative comments about it.

WizOSX · Mar 21, 2004, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan
The G5 is less of a leap over the G4 architecturaly than everybody likes to think.

And this is a good point to keep in mind. Much new technology gets over-hyped. No one should buy a G5 "only" because its a G5, and therefore ignore good deals on G4's. However, the G5 is a genuine leap all the same, but probably in megaherz more than anything else. Whether Apple will be able to take the second step and make OsX G5/64 bit optimized and make it a much bigger leap remains to be seen. Apple tried to make it less of a leap by starting last June with the two "lower end" SP machines that were, respectively, slightly faster than a Dual 1 G4 and a Dual 1.25 respectively.