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bbales · Mar 22, 2004, 11:37 AM

I have a gigabit ethernet 400 MZ G4 that I'm preparing to upgrade. This machine is 3-plus years old and I don't want to invest tons of money. I have a modest video card upgrade on the way from an ebay purchase (I don't do gaming so an expensive card didn't seem worth it).

I'm considering a barebones upgrade of an OWC processor at 700 MZ, for $200. That will still be 75 percent above what I have now.

I could go up to an 800-900 MZ model for $259.99 ($10 more than last week, I might add), or even 867-933 for just $10 more than that ($269.99.)

But the jump from $200 to $260 seems pretty steep for only 100 MZ of improvement. No matter how you slice it, this machine IS nearly 3 1/2 years old and has 100 MZ bus speed and other age issues. It works fine now and I'm running Panther with no problems. I'm mostly interested in a modest boost for a modest price, to get me another year or maybe even more from this machine.

Given these parameters, would I be in good shape with the minimal, $200, 700 MZ upgrade? Would it be worth $60 or $70 more to that 100 MZ to 200 MZ jump? I've never upgrade this much of the innards, before.

Thanks.

osiris · Mar 22, 2004, 11:49 AM

Just a thought: Some programs have processor speed checks, if you're below the minimum clock speed the program won't run. For the extra $60 you get a little more insurance that future apps will be okay.

GoGoReggieXPowars · Mar 22, 2004, 01:03 PM

The 800-900 MHz model for $259.99 is your best bet. I upgraded my 400MHz Sawtooth last year with an early Gigadesigns 800MHz that had no L3 cache, and it's been rock-solid, albeit slower than an 800MHz with L3 cache would run. They're solid units, and the extra speed is immediately noticable. How much RAM do you have?

Lateralus · Mar 22, 2004, 01:28 PM

I wouldn't get anything except a 7455 based upgrade.

The ones you are looking at now are 7451, and they don't clock as well. If you get the one I linked to above, 7455a based, you could probably get a 1.1-1.2GHz overclock out of it.

bbales · Mar 22, 2004, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
The 800-900 MHz model for $259.99 is your best bet. I upgraded my 400MHz Sawtooth last year with an early Gigadesigns 800MHz that had no L3 cache, and it's been rock-solid, albeit slower than an 800MHz with L3 cache would run. They're solid units, and the extra speed is immediately noticable. How much RAM do you have?

768 MB of RAM. You've seen no problems with the processor? I'm such a "by-the-book" person that I worry about making non-Apple modifications for fear something will blow up. I've never liked mucking around in the computer's innards.

And you like the gigadeisgns, too, apparently.

bbales · Mar 22, 2004, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I wouldn't get anything except a 7455 based upgrade.

The ones you are looking at now are 7451, and they don't clock as well. If you get the one I linked to above, 7455a based, you could probably get a 1.1-1.2GHz overclock out of it.

What I find frustrating about the OWC site is that, following the "directions" on their site, dutifully clicking my computer, etc. etc., I didn't even GET the upgrade you linked to. That is not one of the options I was presented. And it seems the one you're showing me will work with my machine.

That said, I'm unfamiliar with the numbers you're showing (7455, and 7451). What is the difference?

bbales · Mar 22, 2004, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by bbales:
What I find frustrating about the OWC site is that, following the "directions" on their site, dutifully clicking my computer, etc. etc., I didn't even GET the upgrade you linked to. That is not one of the options I was presented. And it seems the one you're showing me will work with my machine.

That said, I'm unfamiliar with the numbers you're showing (7455, and 7451). What is the difference?

I looked again -- and actually I think the one you showed is one of the ones I was looking at, except the prices aren't quite the same. I'm not exactly sure how that happened.

Lateralus · Mar 22, 2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by bbales:
What I find frustrating about the OWC site is that, following the "directions" on their site, dutifully clicking my computer, etc. etc., I didn't even GET the upgrade you linked to. That is not one of the options I was presented. And it seems the one you're showing me will work with my machine.

That said, I'm unfamiliar with the numbers you're showing (7455, and 7451). What is the difference?

First off, sorry but I accidentally linked you to a $265 7451 upgrade. I meant to link you to this $325 7455a upgrade.

Basically, to keep it short, the 7451 and 7455 are members of the same family but the 7455 is a bit faster at the same clock speed. Plus, the 7455 was meant to scale higher. The 7455A topping out at around 1.0-1.1GHz and the 7455B going towards 1.5GHz.

So, if you bought the cheaper 7451 upgrade for $265, you wouldn't get much of an overclock out of it since it topped out at around 900MHz. If you went with the slightly more expensive 7455a $325 upgrade, you would get better performance at the same clock speed and you'd be likely to get a nice overclock out of it, possibly 1.1 or 1.2GHz. All by simply moving a jumper.

Lateralus · Mar 22, 2004, 02:10 PM

And to explain the price difference that you saw, here is a little secret: The Mailing List price page.

Special prices if you subscribe to the mailing list, which I don't, I just know the link. And you don't need to be on the list to actually buy the item at that price, just so long as you know the link, which you now do.

GoGoReggieXPowars · Mar 22, 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by bbales:
768 MB of RAM. You've seen no problems with the processor? I'm such a "by-the-book" person that I worry about making non-Apple modifications for fear something will blow up. I've never liked mucking around in the computer's innards.

And you like the gigadeisgns, too, apparently.

No problems whatsoever with the Gigadesigns, but if I were buying new I'd go for the OWC. What was really nice is that the upgrade chip has an integrated fan and heatsink that takes up much less space than the Apple heatsink. Of course the extra fan adds some more noise, but with a pair of 7200 RPM drives and a Radeon 8500, my machine's a bit noisy as it is!

I've done all sorts of mucking about inside my Sawtooth, the only problem I've had was with a flashed Radeon 8500 video card that overheated when using OpenGL for some reason. I found the instructions in the Gigadesigns to be very straightforward, and although I'm pretty comfortable with the insides of a machine, I took it slowly making sure I didn't do anything to either the upgrade or the original chip just in case.

reader50 · Mar 22, 2004, 03:23 PM

The 7457 upgrades are starting to trickle out. This chip has 512 KB of on-die L2 compared to the 256 KB on the 7455 and below. The larger amount of high-speed cache should help compensate some more for the older G4 motherboard's lower system & RAM bandwidth.

Of course, the longer you wait to upgrade, the more reasonable it becomes to consider a G5 or (later this year) a G6.

GoGoReggieXPowars · Mar 22, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by reader50:
(later this year) a G6.

G6.

Later this year.

Riiight.

Lateralus · Mar 22, 2004, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
G6.

Later this year.

Riiight.

Seriously.

The G5 was never designed to go beyond 2.8-3.0GHz.

DrBoar · Mar 23, 2004, 09:25 AM

I got the 1.2 GHz Giga and like it a lot, with the ATI 8500 gaming is good again and the OS X feels as fast as 9 did with the 400 MHz CPU. In my case a 700-800 MHz would be marginal allmost from the start. For Office etc in X even a 700-800 MHz will last you a while

bbales · Mar 24, 2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by reader50:
The 7457 upgrades are starting to trickle out. This chip has 512 KB of on-die L2 compared to the 256 KB on the 7455 and below. The larger amount of high-speed cache should help compensate some more for the older G4 motherboard's lower system & RAM bandwidth.

Of course, the longer you wait to upgrade, the more reasonable it becomes to consider a G5 or (later this year) a G6.

You are so right about the new machine! But I've determined I want this one to last another year. I do have a 12-in PB (early one with 867 MZ) that I can use when I need more power. So I'm looking to get another year at minimal cost. I keep thinking that I'd like to get one of those MIDI keyboards, so I can play with garageband MUCH more than I want a really fast machine. Then there's an ipod... you get the picture.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Still haven't decided, but will probably do so today, as I want to get everything done, soon. It may come down to the more expensive upgrade just b/c the really cheap one has a 10-day lag time.

Waragainstsleep · Mar 24, 2004, 08:43 AM

Get the $270 one. The extra 200MHz is a great value for $70.
Remember that the system bus on alot of the G4 PBs is not significantly faster than your 100Mhz. (Did they hit 166MHz yet? Or still 133?) Yet I'm sure you'll agree that these PBs are significantly faster than your machine. Until quite recently, the system bus speeds have not increased much over the last few years.

I'm running Panther on a PBG3 with a 66MHz System Bus. Its not lightning, but it runs fine. Better than OS 8 or 9 ever did on this machine (Mine in particular, some people don't agree with this finding).

moep · Mar 24, 2004, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Seriously.

The G5 was never designed to go beyond 2.8-3.0GHz.

Woohoo, yet another thing to wait for. Ditch the Rev.B, I'll wait for the G6.

bbales · Mar 25, 2004, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Waragainstsleep:
Get the $270 one. The extra 200MHz is a great value for $70.
Remember that the system bus on alot of the G4 PBs is not significantly faster than your 100Mhz. (Did they hit 166MHz yet? Or still 133?) Yet I'm sure you'll agree that these PBs are significantly faster than your machine. Until quite recently, the system bus speeds have not increased much over the last few years.

I'm running Panther on a PBG3 with a 66MHz System Bus. Its not lightning, but it runs fine. Better than OS 8 or 9 ever did on this machine (Mine in particular, some people don't agree with this finding).

Well, I did it! Ordered the slightly more expensive one, along with a slightly better video card. Now, I just have to wait for the processor upgrade, upgrade the firmware and do all the work. I'm kind of excited...

Thanks for all the help.

GoGoReggieXPowars · Mar 25, 2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by bbales:
Well, I did it!

Good luck, and I'm sure you'll be happy with it! Just remember to not rush the removal and insertion of the processor card, there are lots of tiny pins down there.

bbales · Mar 25, 2004, 03:37 PM

I am so paranoid about stuff like this that I overthink and overanalyze. Current plan is to make my husband do everything!

One quick question -- do people ever buy anti-static gloves or whatever? I'm wondering if that's over the top. (I think I saw a commercial with someone doing something like that.)

Lateralus · Mar 25, 2004, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by bbales:
I am so paranoid about stuff like this that I overthink and overanalyze. Current plan is to make my husband do everything!

One quick question -- do people ever buy anti-static gloves or whatever? I'm wondering if that's over the top. (I think I saw a commercial with someone doing something like that.)

Its over the top.

Just don't walk around the house rubbing your feet on the carpet and poking at the motherboard with your finger.

reader50 · Mar 25, 2004, 08:23 PM

Use a grounding wrist strap. It's not worth risking a CPU upgrade worth hundreds of dollars.

You can get one for about $5 from any Radio Shack, it's #276-2397

bbales · Mar 26, 2004, 07:54 AM

Thanks! I'll be all set.