[digiology2]

Hi, I've decided to upgrade my G4 to panther from 10.1.5. One reason is to get all the new features and another is to finally clean up my system, backup and erase. I have a few things Im worried about when doing this.
You see my hard disk has some errors on it and I dont have the software to fix it, will erasing it fix it? The error was:
"A major error was found in the header node of the Catalog B-tree.
The leaf record count is incorrect.
(10,2,20)
The problem was not fixed at user request."

Im guessing thats serious since apparently this is responsible for locating the files on my disk.

I've heard people talking about how you shouldn't be logged in as the admin by default. When I heard this I created a new user but my settings were gone so I decided to change back. Is it possible to make a user that can be logged in automatically on startup but isn't the admin?
Just to make sure I'm logged in under the admin, if I still need to enter a password for installation does that mean I'm not logged in as the admin?
What difference will it make being under a regular user name? Will I still be able to do everything once I have the admin password?
I've people refering to a root user, is this the same thing?

[LaGow]

The first thing you ought to do is take care of your disk problems. Boot up from your 10.1 install disk and run Disk Utility.

Or, if you're feeling bold today, restart your Mac and hold down the command-s keys while your Mac starts up. That will boot your Mac into single-user mode, which is the command line. Run the following command:

fsck -y (then hit the return key)

until the prompt tells you everything is okay.

When you're done, type

exit (hit return)

and your Mac will boot into its familiar state.

Panther is so much better than 10.1. Very much worth the upgrade for features alone. As for running your Mac from an admin account, it's very much a matter of personal preference and depends upon how much ownership of your computer you want. I run all user accounts on my OS XMacs as non-admin just as an extra layer of protection from myself. Works great. It used to be annoying under previous iterations of OS X because I was always forced to log out and then log into the admin account to install software and so forth, but fast user switching under Panther makes this chore less of a chore.

[digiology2]

thanks, I didn't realise there were disk repair utilities on the OS10.1 disk, I'll try it out

[chabig]

As for your other questions:

1) You can set up a non-admin user to automatically login.

2) Even admin users have to enter their passwords to install software. This is a security feature that's valuable. Just ask those Windows XP users (where every user is an admin by default) who have to put up with these auto-installing worms, etc.

3) The way you know whether a user is an admin user or not is to go to System Preferences, Account. Admin accounts say "Admin" under the username. Non-admin accounts say "Standard". To change a user from admin to standard or back, you check or uncheck the box at the bottom of the Security tab that says "Allow user to administer this computer."

4) The reason you should do your normal everyday work in a user account is because your ability to screw up the machine is less. But it doesn't just make you safer. Software that runs in your user account also has less capability to screw up the machine. When you really do need to administer the machine, you simply log in to the admin account, do your stuff, then log out of that account. (Or in Panther you can use Fast User Switching to switch to the admin account, then you can leave it logged in if you wish and switch back to the user account).

5) The root user has higher privileges than even an admin user. There is not a single case in Mac OS X where you ever need to log in as root. By default, this level of user is disabled. You have to take special actions to enable the root user. It's not done from the Accounts pane of System Preferences.

So you seem to be going at things the right way. I have at least two accounts on all of my machines. One is an admin account. But I do all of my everyday work in a user account.

Chris

[tooki]

Originally posted by chabig:
As for your other questions:
5) The root user has higher privileges than even an admin user. There is not a single case in Mac OS X where you ever need to log in as root.

Alas, you are mistaken there. If you don't want to use the command line (which can require complex syntax for some things that are easy in a GUI), I can quickly think of two things that only root can do:

1. Apply permissions recursively. The Finder has an "Apply to Enclosed Items..." command, but it doesn't work if you're not root! (This is a long-standing bug in OS X, present since at least 10.1.) So you have to log in as root if you wish to do that.

2. Gaining access to some folders. The Finder lets you authenticate to gain access to some folders, but for others, you have to be root. Admittedly, this is a function that is rarely needed.

tooki

[reader50]

A third reason. You came from OS 9, or otherwise expect to have full access to all files and folders on the computer that you paid for.

It helps if you are reasonably competent about MacOS matters, and if you are the sole user of your system. Should both conditions apply and you dislike hitting permissions dialogs every time you want to hack your System folder, set up as the root user.

I've been the root user for a couple of years now. My system hasn't burned down on me, the stock market hasn't crashed yet, and I get more done daily - no more frustration while my computer tells me what I can't do. For whatever reason, I have a problem with my system giving me the finger when I try to open certain folders.

ps - don't try this if you are new to computers or if you enjoy randomly moving files around in /System/Library.

[digiology2]

thanks for the replys that clears it up a bit. I think I'll stay as admin since Im careful enough. I can see how it may be dangerous for viruses, for example a simple shell script could delete all your files in your root directory without a problem I imagine. I'm willing to take the risk, although I would like an excuse to use fast user switching every so often just cos it looks cool!

[digiology2]

Could someone tell me how to log in as root? I need to erase some hidden files norton left in my root directory and the terminal wont let me. Thats one thing I hate about OSX, uninstalling things can be a balls, there are files left everywhere and I don't know where to find em. In classic it was a case of delete the app and the extension!

[chabig]

Could someone tell me how to log in as root? I need to erase some hidden files norton left in my root directory and the terminal wont let me.

You don't have to log in as root to delete files. Just "sudo rm ..." then supply your admin password.

Chris

[reader50]

You can also boot into OS 9, use the Change Visibility CMM if needed to make the files visible, and trash them.

How to log in as root: Go to /Applications/Utilities/NetInfo Manager and launch it. Go to the Security menu and choose Enable Root User. It will prompt you for passwords, once it's done you can quit NetInfo Manager.

Hit System Preferences -> Accounts -> Login Options button (10.3) or Login Options tab (10.2). Set login window to use Name and password rather than List of users ... OS X doesn't always show the root user in the lists, you have to type it in. It does seem to show it in the lists after a reboot.

Log out, or Fast User Switch to the Login window. Type in 'root' as the user name, and whatever password you set for the root user. Presto, you will be logged in as root. Note that your home folder will be at /private/var/root/ , not at /Users/root/

You can Fast User Switch in and out of the root account, but OSX will keep playing games by not showing root in the list of users. Each time, you will have to hit Login to get back to root.

[chabig]

Gaining access to some folders. The Finder lets you authenticate to gain access to some folders, but for others, you have to be root.

Curious...what folder can't you get to from user accounts. I seem to be able to get to all folders.

Chris

[reader50]

Originally posted by chabig:
Curious...what folder can't you get to from user accounts. I seem to be able to get to all folders.

Chris

Using the GUI from an admin account, try to get into

/private/var/cron/

[Graymalkin]

Just a few helpful OSX hints:

• Keep your personal files in your home folder or on an external drive. Don't scatter them willy nilly around the root file system. It makes backups easier and doesn't require you to run with admin privileges.
• From the beginning create a non-Admin user for your everyday use. It is doubtful you install software often enough to need to be an admin at all times. If you do need to be admin frequently enabled Fast User Switching in order to go back and forth quickly.
• While Panther has regained much of OS9's lost functionality (labels, etc.) don't run Panther like you ran OS9. Permissions are your friend and should not be viewed as the computer you paid for not listening to your commands. OSX's permission system is designed to protect your computer from borking itself at the first opportunity.
• When you back up your files remember to back up ~/Library/Preferences and ~/Library/Application Support! These two folders are in essence your user personality as far as OSX is concerned. If you transplant your Preferences folder into a new user or even a different Mac you'll find you'll have the exact same setup you had at home.

Take advantage of OSX's user control features. If you share your Mac with anyone else make sure each person has their own user account. If you like a particular background and your Dock on the right side of the screen while your wife or girlfriend likes a different background and the Dock on the bottom no one needs to butt heads over preferences. If you're not too concerned about file security your separate accounts don't need to have passwords on them.

[digiology2]

Thanks for the post.
One or two things,
Can you not install software when in an ordinary user(once you have the admin pass)? Im logged in as admin and I still need a password for installing software and sudo instructions in the terminal, shouldn't the computer give me complete power as an admin?
I don't think I'll backup the preferences like you suggested, because all my uninstalled programs will have their old files still present, I'm going to start as fresh as possibe. I only want to have to do this once and get it right so I won't want to do the same thing next time I update.
Cheers

[chabig]

Can you not install software when in an ordinary user(once you have the admin pass)?

Sure you can. Just enter the admin username and password when prompted.

Im logged in as admin and I still need a password for installing software and sudo instructions in the terminal, shouldn't the computer give me complete power as an admin?

You do have complete power as admin (within reason) even though you still have to supply the admin password for certain actions-like deleting System files, or installing applications. If you are suggesting that you shouldn't have to enter the password to do anything at all, then no. You are mistaken. That's the problem with Windows XP--everyone is admin and worms and viruses get automatically installed without user interaction.

Chris

[reader50]

I'm afraid that your system will still ask for passwords even if you are the root user. It stops nagging about folder access, but the Installer will still ask for passwords most of the time.

[tooki]

Originally posted by chabig:
Curious...what folder can't you get to from user accounts. I seem to be able to get to all folders.

Chris

For example, anything in /System. Admins have read-only access, as easily shown by the fact that you can't drag anything into there. (Of course, one normally has no reason whatsoever to muck around in /System, since everything we used to do in the System Folder is now in /Library.)

tooki

[chabig]

Yep Tooki, you're right. Anything that's owned by System or root isn't available via the GUI.

Chris

[Arkham_c]

Using the root user account is a bad idea for other reasons.

For example, the root user (UID 0) accesses network devices in a different way from other users, and can easily disable networking completely if a poorly written program is executed as root.

There are lots of other, less obscure reasons why using root as your everyday account is a very bad idea. OSX got it right when they disabled the root user. You can get all you need with single user mode (command-s at boot) or "sudo -s" at the terminal without enabling root login.