[Mallrat]

It seems that the iMacs need a speed bump of their own.

Do you think it will be sooner than later?

[Lateralus]

Soon, very soon. The eMac release has probably killed all iMac sales.

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Soon, very soon. The eMac release has probably killed all iMac sales.

I woudl think that too.

But what will they be?

1.5 G4 with 8x superdrive?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Mallrat:
I woudl think that too.

But what will they be?

1.5 G4 with 8x superdrive?

Well, 8x superdrive is a gimme. Though one wonders if it will be a 1.5 ghz G4 or a low end G5. I'd personally like to see another nicety/surprise or two thrown in the mix (gigE or built-in BT, or FW800) would be swell.

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Well, 8x superdrive is a gimme. Though one wonders if it will be a 1.5 ghz G4 or a low end G5. I'd personally like to see another nicety/surprise or two thrown in the mix (gigE or built-in BT, or FW800) would be swell.

I like to see the 15inch have the option for a superdrive instead of only the combo drive....

Like to see the 15 inch as a 15.4 widescreen as well...

FW800 would be nice.


But I assume it will just be an update and they won't throw a G5 into anything until a big event.

I mean I know they just threw it in the ibooks, but I figure a G5 imac means a redesign to separate itself from the G4imac.

Have to wait and see I guess.

[Lateralus]

If you had asked me 2 or 3 months ago if the next iMacs would have G5s, I would have probably said yes. But now, it seems apparent that the G5 wave isn't moving through the product line anywhere near as fast as Apple would like it to. So, conservatively, I will say:


1.5GHz G4 - 7447
8x Pioneer
The graphics are a toss up... I'd like to see the Radeon 9600 though.

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
If you had asked me 2 or 3 months ago if the next iMacs would have G5s, I would have probably said yes. But now, it seems apparent that the G5 wave isn't moving through the product line anywhere near as fast as Apple would like it to. So, conservatively, I will say:


1.5GHz G4 - 7447
8x Pioneer
The graphics are a toss up... I'd like to see the Radeon 9600 though.

It surely seems that the imac will not change design, it will just get it's specs bumped out in the near future (Tuesday maybe?).

Same with G5.

I don't think anything major will happen for quite some time.

But that's the problem with Apple nuts like us. They make the best computers, but it's like waiting for the movie to come out that you've been reading about for 2 years. You loved the 1st movie, but know it so well it seems less than exciting. You want something new to talk about and think about and look at. And play with at the stores.

We are a bit spoiled I think. We want better, newer and we want it every other week.

[Simon]

The new eMac makes a new iMac release very urgent.

I already predicted some iMac specs in another thread.

I guess the 15" will be dropped. No G5 now.

- 1.33GHz, 17", FX 5200 with 64MB, 256/80, Combo, BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1499
- 1.50GHz, 20", FX 5200 with 64MB, 256/120 SuperDrive (8xDVD-R), BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1999

That GPU is rather sucky for a prosumer, but Apple has been pretty skimpy with iMac GPUs, so...

I guess most would call this a humble update, but since I can't see Apple putting in better specs (the G4 is top, the GPU can't be better than the PowerMac's) I guess they will try to do it with lowered prices. Staying sub-2000 would be a good decision on Apple's behalf.

Compared to the new eMac:
- $700 gets you a 17" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD
- $1000 gets you a 20" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD

[Edit: corrected typo]

[djohnson]

Bah... They need G5's in them soon. However, I will buy the 20" model because I need a new mac.

[galarneau]

I agree about needing a better video card.

The iMac is the consumer desktop macine, right?

Consumers (as opposed to Professionals) want to play games, right?

So give us a video card that will play the latest games, dammnit!!!

For a non-upgradeable machine, I want the video card to be able to play NEXT-years games, too... and a GeForceFX 5200 just isn't cutting the mustard.

[turtle777]

When, when, when ?

I was thinking about getting an eMac, but I'm still kinda hesitant because of potential issues with CRT and the loud fan.

Darn, if I knew there wouldn't be any dramatic pricec uts with the next iMac revision, I would just get the eMac.
But Murphy's law is telling me that the day I order the eMac, the iMac's will be upgraded, for a very good price...



-t

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by turtle777:
When, when, when ?

I was thinking about getting an eMac, but I'm still kinda hesitant because of potential issues with CRT and the loud fan.

The eMac's CRT is fine, and the machine fan is very quiet. I dealt with an eMac/GHz for a few weeks last month.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
The new eMac makes a new iMac release very urgent.

I already predicted some iMac specs in another thread.

I guess the 15" will be dropped. No G5 now.

- 1.33GHz, 17", FX 5200Go with 64MB, 256/80, Combo, BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1499
- 1.50GHz, 20", FX 5200Go with 64MB, 256/120 SuperDrive (8xDVD-R), BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1999

That GPU is rather sucky for a prosumer, but Apple has been pretty skimpy with iMac GPUs, so...

I guess most would call this a humble update, but since I can't see Apple putting in better specs (the G4 is top, the GPU can't be better than the PowerMac's) I guess they will try to do it with lowered prices. Staying sub-2000 would be a good decision on Apple's behalf.

Compared to the new eMac:
- $700 gets you a 17" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD
- $1000 gets you a 20" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD

I'm also predicting something around those prices, but:

1) $700 for a nice TFT and a few other things is reasonable, and I don't see Apple reducing the 17" below $1499. However, I'm thinking it may possibly be higher, perhaps at $1599 (which is still a $200 price drop from previous pricing).
2) The iMac does not need mobile chips. Your Go5200 is worse than the 5200 FX Ultra that's in them now. If anything I think they'll stick with the 5200 FX Ultra, or else go with an ATI Radeon 9600 series chip (64 MB).
3) I'm still not 100% convinced it's gonna be a G4. Much of the info points in that direction, but if early May doesn't bring a G4 iMac update, then I'm thinking it just might be a G5.
4) If it is a G4 then I think the 17" will be at 1.5 GHz, or at least at 1.42 GHz. 1.33 GHz is too little of an update, considering it's already at 1.25 GHz.
5) I think they will keep the 15" iMac. It's great for many people who don't need large screens. I know some people who are waiting for that specific model to be updated with better specs and a lower price (unless the 17" can drop even more in price) before they buy. However, the 15" iMac would be fine with a slower chip, say at 1.25-1.33 GHz.

Whatever the update, I hope it comes soon. In the next couple of months I want to buy a 17" iMac for my dept. as an extra photo editing station. Even if there is no G5 update, a G4 1.5 (with twice the L2 cache of the previous model) with a price drop would still be a nice machine. I'm not so keen on spending $1799 for the current 1.25 GHz 17", however.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
$700 for a nice TFT isn't great price-wise, but I don't see Apple reducing the 17" below $1499.

Yeah, even for a wide aspect TFT $700 is not exactly cheap. But, like you, I can't imagine Apple would go lower than $1499. I'm afraid that's already being rather optimistic.

The iMac does not need mobile chips. Your Go5200 is worse than the 5200 FX Ultra that's in them now. If anything I think they'll stick with the 5200 FX Ultra, or else go with an ATI Radeon 9600 series chip (64 MB).

Typo. I corrected it now. I meant the 5200fx, not the go. Of course they won't downgrade from where they are now. I doubt however that you will get a Radeon 9600 in the 17" iMac - the PowerMac still has a 9000 as entry-level GPU! I would guess as long as the PowerMac doesn't get a better low-end GPU, the iMac won't either.

I'm still not 100% convinced it's gonna be a G4. Much of the info points in that direction, but if early May doesn't bring a G4 iMac update, then I'm thinking it just might be a G5.

Which would make the iMac more powerful than any existing PowerBook. Possible, but not extremely likely. It would be rather ironic so short after the "year of the notebook".

If it is a G4 then I think the 17" will be at 1.5 GHz, or at least at 1.42 GHz. 1.33 GHz is too little of an update, considering it's already at 1.25 GHz.

Yes. Makes sense. I agree.

However, I wouldn't put my bets on the 15" iMac staying. Apple is getting rid of the 17" Studio Display. I think they consider 17" low-end on desktops by now.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
Yeah, even for a wide aspect TFT $700 is not exactly cheap. But, like you, I can't imagine Apple would go lower than $1499. I'm afraid that's already being rather optimistic.

Yeah, I re-edited my message as you posted yours. $1499 is a possibility, but optimistic. I'm guessing up to $1599. $1699 would be too expensive though.

EDIT: Ooops. I just realized your $1499 is with combo drive. I was thinking $1599 with SuperDrive.

Typo. I corrected it now. I meant the 5200fx, not the go. Of course they won't downgrade from where they are now. I doubt however that you will get a Radeon 9600 in the 17" iMac - the PowerMac still has a 9000 as entry-level GPU! I would guess as long as the PowerMac doesn't get a better low-end GPU, the iMac won't either.

I don't think the G4 Power Mac counts for much now. It's only there for OS 9 boot support, and in fact if you were only to check the main Apple pages, you wouldn't even know it existed. The real Power Mac low end is the G5 1.6. It only ships with an FX 5200 Ultra too, but it will hopefully be updated soon, esp. if we want a G4 1.5 in a 17" iMac.

However, I wouldn't put my bets on the 15" iMac staying. Apple is getting rid of the 17" Studio Display. I think they consider 17" low-end on desktops by now.

Well, you could be right, but the 17" Studio Display is low end for a pro product, while the iMac 15" is strictly a lower-end consumer item.

[beb]

But if the update comes at WDCC, it'll be a G5.

I dunno specs. I would guess the PowerMac line would move to 90mm 2.6/2.4/2.2 Ghz dual processors and the iMac 20" would be a single 2.0Ghz processor. I'd buy that for $1999.99

[Simon]

Originally posted by beb:
But if the update comes at WDCC, it'll be a G5.
I dunno specs. I would guess the PowerMac line would move to 90mm 2.6/2.4/2.2 Ghz dual processors and the iMac 20" would be a single 2.0Ghz processor. I'd buy that for $1999.99

Excuse me, but I think that's wishful thinking at its best.

It would already be rather bold if Apple puts a 1.6GHz G5 into the iMac, but expecting a 2.0GHz is definitely pushing it. That would mean Apple puts the top of the line previous PowerMac CPU into the iMac...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
Excuse me, but I think that's wishful thinking at its best.

It would already be rather bold if Apple puts a 1.6GHz G5 into the iMac, but expecting a 2.0GHz is definitely pushing it.

OK, let's compromise and say a 1.8 GHz.

[Simon]

Are we talking about our wet dreams or about Apple Computer Inc. and WWDC 2004?

If it's the former, give me 3.0GHz; if it's the latter 1.6GHz is the max. I'll bet a dozen double quarter pounders with cheese and bacon on that.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Simon:
Are we talking about our wet dreams or about Apple Computer Inc. and WWDC 2004?

If it's the former, give me 3.0GHz; if it's the latter 1.6GHz is the max. I'll bet a dozen double quarter pounders with cheese and bacon on that.

I didn't know that I could get bacon on my double quarter pounder with cheese.

[Eug Wanker]

Well, I was only joking, but if we were looking at it purely from a technical point of view, a 1.8 GHz G5 iMac would be viable.

A G5 970 FX 1.8 GHz would be at most a moderately warm part. It's not a low power part, but it's not hot by any means. The 2.0 GHz G5 970FX is rated at 24.5 Watts typical, which means a lower Hz part like a 1.8 would probably work just fine in the confines of a cramped iMac case, if they used a lower voltage version of it.

Also, looking at it non-technically... If the Power Macs were to go (say in May) to a single 2.0, a dual 2.25, and a dual 2.5 GHz 970FX, then that would open up the entire <2.0 speed range to other products.

Sure a jump from a G4 1.25 to a G5 1.8 is HUGE, but one of the main criticisms of the iMac line is the relatively poor raw/speed vs. cost ratio. This 1.8 GHz G5 would directly address this issue, and still would leave it being slower than all of the Power Macs in terms of CPU speed. And that's not even counting the fact that the iMac will likely use single channel DDR333 (not dual channel DDR400) and a slower bus (450 MHz?).

All that said, I'm thinking that if the iMac goes with a G5 soon, it will probably be 1.6 GHz at the top end.

[Commodus]

I have to agree with beb: if WWDC is the venue for the iMac update, it'll probably be a G5. Remember that yield problems don't necessarily mean that you get no chips - it may just mean that enough of the higher-speed chips aren't turning up. Apple could be sitting on a stockpile of 1.6 or 1.8 GHz 90 nm G5s that they can't use for the PowerMac, but would love to see in the iMac.

The fact that the "Memory for Less" promo includes PowerMacs, Xserves and iMacs, and ends on June 26th, is more than a little suspicious. If they were just going to have more G4 iMacs that use the same chips as in PowerBooks, why would you want to clear out your DDR333 memory (which is what they would use)?

I don't entirely rule out G4s, of course... but G5s seem more likely to me, not less. The main thing I believe to be up in the air is whether Apple will do any kind of visual redesign or not. I'm sure that Steve Jobs has an emotional connection to the current iMac, so any change may just be a variation on the existing theme. However, the relatively sudden focus on pro customers and/or urge to compete in the lower market might also push him to develop a considerably cheaper, smaller mini-tower. I'm sure a lot of Mac-heads here would snap up a $999 G5 system without a display.

[Eug Wanker]

The fact that the "Memory for Less" promo includes PowerMacs, Xserves and iMacs, and ends on June 26th, is more than a little suspicious. If they were just going to have more G4 iMacs that use the same chips as in PowerBooks, why would you want to clear out your DDR333 memory (which is what they would use)?

Yeah, the timing of the end of the sale is suspicious, but I fully expect that if a G5 iMac were to be introduced at WWDC, it would use DDR333. And even if they went to DDR400, remember that the eMac still uses DDR333, and will for quite some time. Furthermore, it's not as if they would keep 6 months worth of memory in stock anyways.

The purpose of this deal is not to clear out memory but to spur computer sales. The G5 Xserves seem to be selling well (compared to G4 Xserves), but both the iMacs and the Power Macs are lagging, since both are in desperate need of a CPU update.

[slider]

Well, we could see a 1.5 G4 in the low end 15" display iMac and a 1.6 G5 in the higher end iMac. Purhaps that why we have not seen a new iMac yet, same G5 issue as the power mac; waiting for the .90nm chip.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by slider:
Well, we could see a 1.5 G4 in the low end 15" display iMac and a 1.6 G5 in the higher end iMac. Purhaps that why we have not seen a new iMac yet, same G5 issue as the power mac; waiting for the .90nm chip.

Not a chance. If one iMac goes G5, all go G5. I agree it would be the 970FX though.

[Olorin]

I say if the iMac does not get an update tomorrow to a G4 it will get a G5 after the PowerMac update or at the same time. Makes sense.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Olorin:
I say if the iMac does not get an update tomorrow to a G4 it will get a G5 after the PowerMac update or at the same time. Makes sense.

Why do you say tomorrow? Just because of the iTMS announcement?

I was thinking/hoping maybe May for an iMac and/or Power Mac update.

[beb]

I still say it'll be updated at WDCC with a funkier enclosure. I'm guessing more holes at the top—maybe sides. I think a 2Ghz G5 single processor iMac at a $2000.00 price point is a possibility by July. They really ought to up the HD and upgrade the GPU a little.

[heresiarh]

I hope they release it soon, I want to buy one.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by beb:
...WDCC...

WWDC

[heresiarh]

hmm

[turtle777]

I don't think we're going to see G5 iMac's before there are G5 Powerbooks.

Just a feeling of mine...

-t

[teknopimp]

G5 imac definitely in the pipeline and will come sometime this year. not the same for the powerbooks, they take much longer to develop, more complicated.

[heresiarh]

I would buy a G5 iMAC.