[geltab]

This is not bashing Apple, just questioning their decision.

I noticed that all the G5's come with lame video cards. I mean seriously, a 64 mb ATI 9600 on a state of the art computer. What is Apple thinking? Who would buy a professional level computer without the best card? I just was amazed at this.

On the other hand, can you buy the 256 mb ATI 9800 pro for the Mac? Or is the 9800 pro with 128 the best there for mac? I am amazed that since video editing is such a big thing with macs, more emphasis isn't put on the vid card.

Do the cards for mac tend to run the same price as pc? Is the Mac version as fast as the pc? From what I hear it is not, it has 2x-4x but not 8x like the pc ( I don't know what that means though).

Thanks for the help.

[tooki]

G5's have 8x AGP, too.

Mac versions of the cards are appreciably more expensive than the PC ones, because ATI and nVidia know they can charge that much. And they do tend to be slower, although it's likely that this has to do with the Mac OS rather than the cards. (There is little to no difference in the hardware.)

That said, who cares? Other than for gaming (which is not something Macs tend to be used for, on the whole), it doesn't matter. The Radeon 9600 is overkill for most users.

tooki

[cmoney]

I don't think video editing really requires high end video cards does it? I mean high end video cards really help out with 3D whereas video needs to do things like rendering for which you need fast CPUs. Output isn't always done right on the computer either, many times you'll output to video monitor.

But yeah I do agree, why does Apple spec out relatively low-end video cards?

One thing, the Radeon 9800 that you can get from Apple has 8x AGP whereas the retail card from ATI is only 4x I think. It does suck too that you generally can't stick a PC video card into a Mac. That would really open up our options, as it is, we're stuck with fewer cards.

[riotge@r]

Originally posted by cmoney:
I don't think video editing really requires high end video cards does it? I mean high end video cards really help out with 3D whereas video needs to do things like rendering for which you need fast CPUs. Output isn't always done right on the computer either, many times you'll output to video monitor.

But yeah I do agree, why does Apple spec out relatively low-end video cards?

One thing, the Radeon 9800 that you can get from Apple has 8x AGP whereas the retail card from ATI is only 4x I think. It does suck too that you generally can't stick a PC video card into a Mac. That would really open up our options, as it is, we're stuck with fewer cards.

It is lame that a $3k machine comes with a consumer level graphics card. ATi still hasn't released the Radeon 9800 G5 edition. Those bastards announced that it would ship in January!

[emark]

I'm not sure what you mean about ATI not releasing the 9800 G5 edition.

Since the G5 edition ONLY works in G5s they only come from Apple as OEM...they don't need to sell it retail 'cause there aren't any older macs w/ 8x AGP to use it...

The retail 9800 has been available for some time, and runs in 2x or 4x AGP slots. There is a distinct power supply issue here with regard to power delivery through the AGP slot, since ATI can not count on that power being delivered across the majority of the existing customer base they release the retail version which includes a power input port where you hook up one of the little 4 pt. plugs that you would power a hard drive with to supply additional power to the card.

Only MDD and up have enough juice to run the card through the slot itself (at least that was the case for the ATI 9700, which wouldn't work even in some Quicksilvers and earlier due to this fact)

And, to add to the relative speed issue comments between pc and mac versions: mac gaming video perfomrance is often rated less as the cards are running the games in open gl instead of DirectX. Without debating the merits of the two, just know that gaming companies spend more time and $ optimizing for it....sucks but that's just supply and demand...but otherwise, the hardware is increasingly identical, and the forums of different sites are ripe with stories of folks flashing their cards from PC to mac...

one thing to note there when you buy on ebay, as there are so many remarketers, some w/ different specs/price points, just because some yo - yo flashed a 9000 class card doesn't mean to me you'll get the same performance...I've read people reporting stories of differences in ROMs, different memory specs, and different output options.

While it's disheartening to shell out extra bucks, the volume is a fraction of the PC card aftermarket...any business looking at a boutique product like this is going to come up with fewer choices at a premium cost....be glad there there at all...

And, paraniod cap back on, Apple has time and again done some unscrupulous things to retain control over parts proliferlation, and it wouldn't suprise me if directly or "between the lines" there is some agreement with ati or nvidia as to when and what retail offerings are available....

[Leonard]

Originally posted by emark:
I'm not sure what you mean about ATI not releasing the 9800 G5 edition.

He's talking about the ATI 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition that ATI announced in January ( http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/01/07/ati/ ) and hasn't produced. As mentioned in the article, the card was specifically for the G5.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by cmoney:
I don't think video editing really requires high end video cards does it? I mean high end video cards really help out with 3D whereas video needs to do things like rendering for which you need fast CPUs. Output isn't always done right on the computer either, many times you'll output to video monitor.
...
But yeah I do agree, why does Apple spec out relatively low-end video cards?

Well the new app that Apple just introduced, Motion, has a suggested system of a dual 2.0 G5 with 4GB RAM and a Radeon 9800. It would seem Apple is leveraging Quartz Extreme's use of OpenGL into video apps for previews at least and I would expect this to become far more pervasive in the near future. I do wish there were optional "Pro" graphics cards for the Mac but I hope most ppl realize that most "Pro" cards are really the same chips running different drivers. In fact there are websites that have driver hacks so you can use the drivers from and Ati Pro card with a Radeon 9800 for example. It would be far too costly to develop many different cores for each market segment.


-Jerry C.