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booboo · Jun 9, 2004, 09:22 AM

With a unified motherboard across the range - and no lame 4 RAM slot 'entry' model?

Bearing in mind 3.0 GHz by Summer . . .

Will we get something like

2.0DP
2.5DP
3.0DP

in the next bump, and how long will that be, and still be 'summer'?

MacNStein · Jun 9, 2004, 09:31 AM

I don't think we'll see a 3GHz model until winter, probably middle December (just so Steve won't get caught in a lie)

.

Powaqqatsi · Jun 9, 2004, 09:33 AM

October-November

eddiecatflap · Jun 9, 2004, 09:34 AM

No 3GHz G5 anytime soon

When Apple CEO took the stage at last year's Worldwide Developer's Conference, he wowed the attendees with the new Power Mac G5 dual 2GHz design and technology. Jobs further excited the crowd when he said that Apple would release a 3GHz model within a year -- with two weeks to go before that deadline, Boger said Apple will not meet the 3GHz promise.

"It's actually quite simple," said Boger. "When we made that prediction, we just didn't realize the challenges moving to 90 nanometer would present. It turned out to be a much bigger challenge than anyone expected."

"All-in-all, no we are not getting to 3GHz anytime soon, but what we are announcing today is a very significant upgrade in performance and its something that are customers will be very happy with."

..straight from the horse's mouth

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/

OldManMac · Jun 9, 2004, 09:36 AM

Sometime within my lifetime. Who knows? They just released a new line this morning, stated that they're having poblems getting the chips as fast as they'd like, and already the guessing starts on a new line. I predict that faster machines will be available when Apple announces them.

velodev · Jun 9, 2004, 10:24 AM

Can't anyone just be happy with the current speed bump? I mean... it's the DAY OF the speed bump and we already have topics about 3.0.

I am psyched alone about liquid cooling. Who else is producing mainstream liquid cooled machines in this quantity?

Why do we ALWAYS have to worry about the next revision.

The Ancient One · Jun 9, 2004, 10:25 AM

Let's see:

Apple - 2GHz to 2.5 GHz +25%
Intel - 3.2 GHz to 3.4 GHz +6%

And you're complaining???

Big Mac · Jun 9, 2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by velodev:
Can't anyone just be happy with the current speed bump? I mean... it's the DAY OF the speed bump and we already have topics about 3.0.

I am psyched alone about liquid cooling. Who else is producing mainstream liquid cooled machines in this quantity?

Why do we ALWAYS have to worry about the next revision.

When SJ makes unambiguous promises, people are obviously going to be dissatisfied if Apple misses those projections by any substantial amount. Apple over-promised and under-delivered by a half GHz, so how can you blame those who are disappointed?

Agasthya · Jun 9, 2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by eddiecatflap:
No 3GHz G5 anytime soon

When Apple CEO took the stage at last year's Worldwide Developer's Conference, he wowed the attendees with the new Power Mac G5 dual 2GHz design and technology. Jobs further excited the crowd when he said that Apple would release a 3GHz model within a year -- with two weeks to go before that deadline, Boger said Apple will not meet the 3GHz promise.

"It's actually quite simple," said Boger. "When we made that prediction, we just didn't realize the challenges moving to 90 nanometer would present. It turned out to be a much bigger challenge than anyone expected."

"All-in-all, no we are not getting to 3GHz anytime soon, but what we are announcing today is a very significant upgrade in performance and its something that are customers will be very happy with."

..straight from the horse's mouth

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/

3GHz. That myth was...

nforcer · Jun 9, 2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Agasthya:
3GHz. That myth was...

The Placid Casual · Jun 9, 2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by velodev:
Can't anyone just be happy with the current speed bump? I mean... it's the DAY OF the speed bump and we already have topics about 3.0.

I am psyched alone about liquid cooling. Who else is producing mainstream liquid cooled machines in this quantity?

Why do we ALWAYS have to worry about the next revision.

It is not 'liquid cooling' as it has no pump that I a can see.

It is a heat pipe. Nothing more exotic.

In fact, the same technology appeared on the 1.4 ghz G4 machines last year...

booboo · Jun 9, 2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by velodev:
Can't anyone just be happy with the current speed bump? I mean... it's the DAY OF the speed bump and we already have topics about 3.0.

I am psyched alone about liquid cooling. Who else is producing mainstream liquid cooled machines in this quantity?

Why do we ALWAYS have to worry about the next revision.

Because that is what drives the forums. That's what they're for.

2.5GHz is OK - but we were hoping for 3GHz. And not without good reason.

Failing that I had been hoping for unified 8 RAM slot/DP's across the range, which I didn't quite get.

The entry-level machine gets a price-hike, which I didn't need.

The mid-range machine is only an 11% improvement on last year's offering. Not the best thing to have ever happened.

I am buying a new G5, but the choice isn't as clear cut as I'd hoped - I'd have preferred a Dual 1.6/8 slot/PCI-X than the current entry machine . . .

Who else is producing mainstream liquid cooled machines in this quantity?'

it's a nice way of saying the (over-clocked?) processors are too hot for conventional cooling. Just like the G4 1.42 which also used this technology.

velodev · Jun 9, 2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
When SJ makes unambiguous promises, people are obviously going to be dissatisfied if Apple misses those projections by any substantial amount. Apple over-promised and under-delivered by a half GHz, so how can you blame those who are disappointed?

Because it's technology. When was the last time a major corporation hit a milestone they projected close to a year out?

If you can name two... I'll rescind my comments.

I'm glad they aren't delivering a 3.0Ghz machine. With the issues involving the first generation G5's, I would hope Apple isn't rushing to meet Steve Job's prediction. In a related note, there are numerous time in my past software development days when a project manager (let's say Steve in this example) would promise a feature before release. THEN, they go to the developer and ask about the feasibility. A bad practice, but a practice nonetheless.

velodev · Jun 9, 2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by booboo:
Because that is what drives the forums. That's what they're for.

I thought the Hardware forums were for newb's to take pictures of their new purchases and make new topics so everyone can hit their trial .Mac account.

Maybe I was mistaken.

Oh, you're right... they also serve the function of helping newbs determine whether they should buy the G4 now or wait until a week before school starts when the G5 Powerbook *might* be released.

Hmm, multi-functional.

Zoom · Jun 9, 2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by velodev:
Can't anyone just be happy with the current speed bump? I mean... it's the DAY OF the speed bump and we already have topics about 3.0.

We were talking about 3GHz before today because it was promised to us by this summer. So we're still talking about it.

While there is definitely a lot of whining about every upgrade and wishing for something more on these forums, this was a special case. We were promised something and they failed to deliver.

I'm really just sick of this whole secret upgrade strategy in general. It really pisses me off. Steve, just get off the ego wagon and give us a 12-month roadmap updated every quarter. It doesn't have to be a promise, we all know there will be unforeseen problems, but give us The Plan so we can make informed decisions.

I'm all for having big announcements for cool new technologies, like liquid cooling or the SuperDrive or whatever. Those could certainly be considered proprietary secrets that should not be revealed ahead of time. Same with brand new models. But CPU speeds, hard drive sizes, types and amount of RAM, video cards, etc, are part and parcel of any PC. I'd like to know The Plan. Surely, Steve has one. (I know, 'yes I do, and stop calling me Shirley'.) I don't see how it could hurt, but I do see how it would please just about everyone.

krove · Jun 9, 2004, 12:09 PM

It is a bit unreasonable to think that Apple could produce HUGE product introductions at the rate you people expect.

Technology is a slow process and doesn't happen overnight. When the 3 GHz prognostication was made, 90 nm lithography processes were just in infancy, barely having been tested. When 90 nm production lines actually started running, they saw huge differences in terms of current leakage, something not anticipated by the current models. So back to the drawing board, trying to fix this killer issue.

We are sitting on the edge of technological cliff, pushing the limits all the time, but you people make it out to sound as if Apple purposefully plopped us in the middle of flat plain, directionless and lost in the world of technology. Open your eyes guys, and stop playing blind to the situation.

Landos Mustache · Jun 9, 2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Zoom:
We were talking about 3GHz before today because it was promised to us by this summer. So we're still talking about it.

Well Steve was wrong, 2.5 is all you are getting for a long time so deal.

Thank god I didn't wait 8 months for this dinky update.

Zoom · Jun 9, 2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by krove:
It is a bit unreasonable to think that Apple could produce HUGE product introductions at the rate you people expect.

You missed the point. Apple gave us the expections, we didn't invent them. The mistake here was that Steve shouldn't have said, unequivocally, that "we will be at 3GHz by next summer". Throw in a caveat, give yourself an out. He didn't. That was the mistake.

I fully understand that 'sh*t happens'. Steve should, too.

HOWEVER. While I don't think the 3Ghz thing was reasonable (a 50% increase in one year), I definitely think it's reasonable to assume that Apple's premium products for professionals are on par with anything from the Wintel masses. If they have PCI-X, so should Apple. If they have Radion 9,000,000 XZTS video cards, so should Apple. If they have room to add more optical drives and hard drives and RAM, so should Apple.

Or at the very least, Apple's products should be just as functional - there's more than one way to skin a cat. For instance, built-in Ethernet and Firewire and modem means you can save 3 PCI slots normally taken up on a stock Wintel box. That's fine. However, if Wintel boxes have 4 open PCI slots, then so should Apple. See my point?

I think we're not expecting enough from Apple. I wish there was some way to exert more pressure. People can vote with their pocketbooks, and they have - Apple's lost a lot of key constituencies (education, software development, even some desktop publishing). But Apple's margins are so high and their remaining users are so loyal... what's driving them to improve?

Luckily, Apple and Steve are big on introducing new technologies like USB and Firewire and WiFi and so on. That's a plus. It's nice to have something to brag about. But I personally think they're lacking in some core areas. Granted, the stuff they have is done very, very well - I like the elegant designs and the general quality - but at the end of the day it's disappointing to spend so much money and not have basic functional equity with Wintel boxes that are half the price.

Honestly, what I like most about Apple's products is the software. OSX, the iApps, and even the third-party stuff (Microsoft's Mac BU makes better stuff than the Windows group, IMO). I think the hardware has really become a commodity. If I could run OSX on a Wintel box, I would do it in a heartbeat. The cost savings would be enormous and my upgrade options nearly infinite. This is a personal feeling and I realize others have their own opinions, but for me, the elegant cases Apple produces aren't worth the premium you pay for them... but they're required for the thing I must have: the software.

Maybe I'm just bitter after today's disappointment. I'm sorta at a low point on Apple hardware today.

Cadaver · Jun 9, 2004, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
It is not 'liquid cooling' as it has no pump that I a can see.

It is a heat pipe. Nothing more exotic.

In fact, the same technology appeared on the 1.4 ghz G4 machines last year...

Liquid ? water.

The heat can create a circulation of fluid. Doesn't necessarily need a pump like PC water coolers do. I bet we see a scaled down version of the dual 2.5's cooling system in an eventual PowerBook.

mac freak · Jun 9, 2004, 01:42 PM

I am so glad I just bit the bullet when the original DP1.8 came out and didn't wait for this update (which at that time I expected to see in February... not June).

Peabo · Jun 9, 2004, 02:29 PM

Steve meant NEXT summer

The Placid Casual · Jun 9, 2004, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by mac freak:
I am so glad I just bit the bullet when the original DP1.8 came out and didn't wait for this update (which at that time I expected to see in February... not June).

I feel the same... my Mk1 d1.8 has just gained a *lot* more shelf life...

McFarmer · Jun 9, 2004, 06:14 PM

The original rumor said that the 975 based upgrade will be announced at WWDC, but won't ship before Mac Expo (i.e. September).

Perhaps Apple realized that by doing this (introducing new PowerMacs at WWDC and not shipping them for months) they'd kill almost all PowerMac G5 sales until then. Especially since the 'old' ones would be 12 months old technology by then.
From that point of view Apple might have figured that they might as well ship the 970fx 'February update' now and make at least a few sales until September/October when the 975 update arrives...

The Placid Casual · Jun 10, 2004, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by McFarmer:
The original rumor said that the 975 based upgrade will be announced at WWDC, but won't ship before Mac Expo (i.e. September).

Perhaps Apple realized that by doing this (introducing new PowerMacs at WWDC and not shipping them for months) they'd kill almost all PowerMac G5 sales until then. Especially since the 'old' ones would be 12 months old technology by then.
From that point of view Apple might have figured that they might as well ship the 970fx 'February update' now and make at least a few sales until September/October when the 975 update arrives...

I don't think that this will be another B&W-->G4 intro scenario.

I think IBM has problems until the Power5 based chips come out... are they the 975? Are they the 980.We have no info either way.

What I do know is, that I certainly don't believe that french idiot.

iNeusch · Jun 10, 2004, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by The Ancient One:
Let's see:

Apple - 2GHz to 2.5 GHz +25%
Intel - 3.2 GHz to 3.4 GHz +6%

And you're complaining???

Peabo · Jun 10, 2004, 06:32 AM

Pretend Steve never said anything, then realise that +500mhz is the largest speedbump (within one processor family) that we've ever had. I'm trying to forget what Steve told us, but it's hard

no1allowed · Jun 10, 2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by z0ne81:
Pretend Steve never said anything, then realise that +500mhz is the largest speedbump (within one processor family) that we've ever had. I'm trying to forget what Steve told us, but it's hard

It is nice to see that at least Apple had a fall-back plan to up the internal voltages on the original 970, which they have plenty of and can get a steady supply of. I had said previously (in another forum, sorry) that the current 970 design had some extra oomph even at 130nm. Apple just found a way to mass produce liquid cooling - this means this will become popular on mass produced PCs too. Won't be too long until you see, in particular, AMD based units with liquid cooled Athlon 64s and Opterons and Intel based Pentium 4s designed as "whisper-quiet office" PCs.

I believe MacWorld San Fran will be a boon to "super-rumors" now.