[xe0]

I was appalled to see some of the reactions to the latest PowerMac revisions.
The majority of posts on these and other boards were filled complaining and whining comments regarding the speed increase and the reports that the 3GHz barrier had not yet been reached.

By the way some of you were behaving it was like Apple had betrayed you!?

I was honestly puzzled as to why people were reacting in such a way- which begs the question: what you do actually use your mac for?

Do you use your Mac for employment or entrepreneurial ventures?
Will the magic 3GHz number enable you to do anything that you could not do on say a 1.8 or 2.5 G5 system?? Do you use all this power to just encode mp3's? or do you use for mac for playing video games?

To all those who were disappointed and complained - what do you want a Mac that fast for? And to all those that want these forth coming 2.5 systems- what will you actually do with all that grunt?

[xe0]

I assume from the lack of response my opinion may be confirmed.

hardly anyone needs all that power..

I get the impression that a majority of the people who chronically bitched about the new Fleet for G5 systems, probably have no life, sit on the net, jack off to porn and whine about the most forward thinking company in the industry.

My apologies if thats a harsh statement, but being a fairly recent 'switcher' I honestly don't get the way some Mac users behave. Im not sure if its a Mac fanatic thing, or a general computer fanatic thing or what..

[memory-minus]

When it comes down to it, who really cares? If bitching turns you off, don't read those threads. They usually have big frowny faces and lots of exclamation!!11!1!!11 marks in the subject line for easy identification.

And is there really any difference between having no life, sitting on the net all day and jerking off to porn and having no life, sitting on the net all day, whining about the bitchers?

Oh and IBTL.

[action]

xeo,


it's obvious from your thread you are not a power user.

i use my mac for video production and large image manipulation.

i can never have enough power.

just because you don't need it doesn't mean others don't.

this has been talked to death. let's move on.

chung lee

[xe0]

Originally posted by memory-minus:
And is there really any difference between having no life, sitting on the net all day and jerking off to porn and having no life, sitting on the net all day, whining about the bitchers?

In your opinion, does asking a question fall in the same category as whining?

[xe0]

Originally posted by action:
xeo,
it's obvious from your thread you are not a power user.
i use my mac for video production and large image manipulation.
i can never have enough power.
just because you don't need it doesn't mean others don't.
this has been talked to death. let's move on.
chung lee

LOL. Im not sure how you arrived at that apparently obvious fact, action.
To the contrary I use my G5 for Print media, video composition and multimedia which pretty much demands every ounce of power a system can muster.

But thanks for answering my original question

[effgee]

Originally posted by xe0:
... which begs the question: what you do actually use your mac for? Do you use your Mac for employment or entrepreneurial ventures? ...

Now I certainly don't feel betrayed by Apple but after spending the better part of a week in Photoshop doing retouching and compositing work on a fairly large image file (30"x20", 1200dpi) with more layers than I care to remember even a decked out dual 2GHz G5 can seem slow at times. I for one was looking forward to a (nominal) 50% speed boost. Oh - and yes - I do use my Macs for entrepreneurial ventures.

[PuzzleOfLife]

I use one of my Macs to model physical systems for prototyping Right now it takes about 24 hours to simulate 20 ms, on a Dual 1 Ghz Quicksilver. So an upgrade to a G5 would be very helpful. But with added power, I'm likely to refine the model I'm using even more, so it will need even more processing power. Long compute times don't slow me down, since I'm not waiting on it before I can do the next task.

[angelmb]

Hi, I suspect that the only "problem" was the 3GHz Steve Jobs´ promise. I find a 2.5 GHz Dual G5 a awesome computer. A friend´ll get a couple of them loaded with 8 GB RAM, 500 GB HD, fibre channel card, BT mice & keyboards... and yes, I think he will use it with a huge load work. He is an Art Director and his day starts and ends with every Adobe apps you can mind running all the time. Another friend is a music performer, I can assure you he uses his 2 GHz Dual G5 at full power with pro apps like Reason.

Overpromise is not a good thing, though.

[Luca Rescigno]

People ALWAYS bitch about every single hardware update Apple releases. They always have and always will. When the G5s initially came out, it was mostly a love-fest, but it also had the "it's ugly" and "there's no expansion room" comments floating around.

Face it, yelling at people for complaining won't get you anywhere. It'll just make you look dumb. And as you have seen, many people DO in fact use more power than the computer can provide... in fact, more power than just about any computer can provide. For the people that don't... well, that's a combination of a few things. First, there are some who just don't care because they can't afford a PowerMac either way. Others want better updates so the old models depreciate enough so they can afford one. Some want to purchase a machine that will last 4-5 years and they want the best update possible just before buying. And I'm sure there are many people here who want better updates simply because it means that Apple is succeeding.

[danbrew]

I pretty much jerk off and view porn.

But... when I *do* ask questions, I typically wait more than 36 minutes before exclaiming how rude everyone is for not jumping up to reply!

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by xe0:
I assume from the lack of response my opinion may be confirmed.

You need to yield people a little more time; not everyone on this forum has "no life, sit[ting] on the net," and some need to finish "jack[ing] off".

Originally posted by xe0:
hardly anyone needs all that power..

Hardly anyone needs a computer at all.

Originally posted by xe0:
I get the impression that a majority of the people who chronically bitched about the new Fleet for G5 systems, probably have no life, sit on the net, jack off to porn and whine about the most forward thinking company in the industry.

Philistine, banal remarks.

Originally posted by xe0:
My apologies if thats a harsh statement, but being a fairly recent 'switcher' I honestly don't get the way some Mac users behave. Im not sure if its a Mac fanatic thing, or a general computer fanatic thing or what..

Sweeping, general remarks.

You need to lighten up. People complain all the time; not everyone either, but yes, plenty do. You're complaining about the complaining users--hypocritical to an extent, no?

[dampeoples]

I just read forums. A DP 3GHz would be nice for that though, I could reply before Gorickey!

[effgee]

Originally posted by dampeoples:
I just read forums. A DP 3GHz would be nice for that though, I could reply before Gorickey!

But only with 8GB of RAM and the ATI X800 ... without those you won't stand a chance.

[osxisfun]

entrepreneurial
entrepreneurial porn
programming entrepreneurial porn
viewing entrepreneurial porn i just programmed

[Link]

Well gee hrm lemme think about that.

No I have absolutely no use for a real computer. To tell you the truth I was quite happy staring at the cardboard box I had before, and all I do with it is go to this cool site called macnn and whine about powermacs not being fast enough.

Of course they're not fast enough you stupid yahoo. If computers were EVER good enough we'd all be using 486s still. They can edit sound AND pictures, howabout that?

Besides it's not so much the 500mhz bump that was pathetic, it's the fact that apple bundled a $20 geforce video card and a $25 stick of DDR400 (256mb) ram with their damn "low end" $2000 machine. Performance wise even the lowly radeon 9200 in the ibook is faster than that POS video card, it's only saving grace that it has dual DVI.

Why can't some dimwits understand that just because it's the low end g5 powermac doesn't mean it's ok for the machine to rival the low end PCs that you can buy for $500 from CompUSSR?

[Cadaver]

My uses are are 100% satisfied at present with my G5 (see sig for specifics).

I use Word, EndNote and PowerPoint heavily. Some Keynote use as well (but not as much for fear of needing to present on something other than a Mac). Some output to Acrobat 6.0 Professional.

I'm also an amateur (very amateur/hobby) photographer. I use PhotoShop CS to do some editing, but even though the pictures are 6 megapixels in size (Nikon D100) and some are in RAW format, the DPG5 + 2.5GB RAM provides more than enough oomph to do what I need. Wont make one lick of difference (to me) if I finish 6 seconds faster than I can now....

I view & export DICOM and motion DICOM images (medical image format). RAM is most important here, and my 2.5GB is far from being enough. Two 2.0GHz processors however is plenty of CPU power for simple viewing and exportation.

I also do some computed tomography 3D modeling on my G5 with OsiriX. This is about the only task that could benefit from faster processors. High rendering quality is very CPU intensive, and it can take several minutes to render a single image. However, for my serious work, I use far more sophisticated (i.e., expensive) systems at work. Its not really the CPU power thats lacking so much as the lack of software optimization. I refuse to believe a dual 2.8GHz Xeon with 4GB of RAM & a 256MB ATI FireGL running WinXP Pro is actually 6-8 times faster than my dual 2.0GHz G5; I think the issue here is software (open source donation-ware vs. a $125,000 commercial package).

While I consider myself a power user, I suspect I'll be satisfied with my DP 2.0GHz G5 for some time to come.

Heck, at work I have a gigabit DP 500MHz G4, and on it running 24/7 is a web server, a POP mail server, a DICOM receiver daemon and all my standard desktop apps (Word, PowerPoint, Excel, EndNote, Mail, iCal, OmniWeb, Transmit, PhotoShop, Acrobat 6.0 Pro, etc). This nearly 4 year old machine does all this with nothing more than 1GB of RAM and a couple of fast hard drives.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the case for everyone, but I fully believe (as does xeo) that most (again, "most" does not equal "everyone") people far overbuy processor power, when they should have shifted some money to more RAM, faster HDs, etc., instead. This is most severely demonstrated in the PC market. I understand that system builders must sell their products to put food on the table, but Mom & Dad America don't need a 2.8GHz Pentium 4 to send email to little Johnny off at college. Nor does Johnny need an Athlon XP-64 3800+ to run Kazza and IE on the schools network.

So, after all that, why did I buy a top-of-the-line (at least as of last week) $3000 machine? I'll tell you. When I bought, the only dual processor model was the 2.0. There's a huge difference between a single and a dual processor system - much, much more than say the difference between a dual 2.0 and a dual 2.5. Plus, I needed more than the 1.5-2.0GB of RAM the G4s were limited to. As soon as the pocketbook permits, I'll likely be boosting my machine to 4GB.

[Superchicken]

I have a 1Ghz PowerBook and it's fast enough for me

Well aside from the lack of RAM but I'll be fixin that soon. You're right most people shouldn't complain about the speed of the G5. I am more frustrated because Jobs said it would be out, and because the faster the proc in the PowerMac gets, the faster it will be when I buy mine... some day

For now I won't be getting a new comp for at least two or three years.

As for what I do with my Mac? writing papers, research/web browsing, chatting/e-mail keeping in touch with people at college, tons of listening to music, and a WHOLE lot of photo work, (nothing huge generally just two megapixel photos and batch processes) web design in Fireworks MX (I do some really complex stuff that can choke this machine.)

But for the most part you're right, a 1Ghz G4 is more than fast enough for me, the only thing I could really use a G5 for is faster everything, and much faster DVD ripping (legal). There are a few times every now and then when things take a long time, but not to often. And like I said lots of that doesn't have anything to do with the proc.

That said, we do know that the speed of your processor is directly proportional to the size of your penis.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by Link:
Besides it's not so much the 500mhz bump that was pathetic, it's the fact that apple bundled a $20 geforce video card and a $25 stick of DDR400 (256mb) ram with their damn "low end" $2000 machine. Performance wise even the lowly radeon 9200 in the ibook is faster than that POS video card, it's only saving grace that it has dual DVI.

Why can't some dimwits understand that just because it's the low end g5 powermac doesn't mean it's ok for the machine to rival the low end PCs that you can buy for $500 from CompUSSR?

100% agree. 512MB needs to be the minimum stock. As for video, I'm not really that bothered by the nvidia card in the bottom-end machine. Yes, its slow for games and OpenGL work. However, the upgrade to the mid-line card is only $50 and people who are doing serious OpenGL work (or games) probably aren't buying the low-end machine anyway.

Now, the nvidia in the mid grade machine, however, is a shame. It should be a faster nvidia card (say, a 5600FX) or a Radeon 9600 (doesn't even have to be the XT version). A 64MB Radeon 9600 Pro (non XT; like the one's in the old DP2.0's) would be a good card for the middle machine. Leave the 128MB Radeon 9600 XT as the stock card in the top model.

[xe0]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
People ALWAYS bitch about every single hardware update Apple releases. They always have and always will. When the G5s initially came out, it was mostly a love-fest, but it also had the "it's ugly" and "there's no expansion room" comments floating around.

Thanks for answering my questions guys.
Luca Rescigno I think pretty much has it spot on. In my short time using Macintosh systems it seems a valid observation to say that quite a number of people will always complain no matter what Apple do- at least quite a number of people who post here and on other Mac related forums.

Its refreshing to see some of you do actually need a G5 and therefore some disappointment is warranted.

now if you'll excuse me I have to get back to work

[Link]

Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't agree with superchicken:
"You're right most people shouldn't complain about the speed of the G5. I"

Allow me to explain why. Computers will ALWAYS be changing, as unlike TVs, cars, and the like, there's always something new (actually cars have constantly changed, just more slowly)...

Have you ever done 3d movie rendering on a computer? How about editing HUGE image files or very large movie files? It's going to be a wait no matter what, and while I don't do this daily, I do note it's one of the many forces that pushes forward the industry.

Anyway, the G5 might be fast enough for you now, but what about 3 years from now? Do you want Apple to *JUST* be releasing a dual 3.5ghz machine in 2008? That is, a machine that's about 35% faster than the current stuff?

No, you want the fastest you can get for your money. Would you pay $25,000 for a car that only has cloth seats and a slow 4 cylinder engine? Hardly.

Would you pay $4000 for a standard NTSC TV?

For some reason I have my doubts. Technology driving forward is a necessity, and as long as computers can be made faster or more efficient, there will be programs and apps that "run slow". OS X, for example was able to totally swamp anything under a 600mhz G4 back in the day, whereas OS 9 would run without a hitch on a 150mhz 601.

There's also a huge difference between those 2 OSes, bloated or not. I have absolutely no doubt there is no such thing as "good enough"

If you think that something is ever "good enough" then you should just go bury yourself under a rock.

[xe0]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
That said, we do know that the speed of your processor is directly proportional to the size of your penis.

hahaha

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by Link:
Anyway, the G5 might be fast enough for you now, but what about 3 years from now? Do you want Apple to *JUST* be releasing a dual 3.5ghz machine in 2008? That is, a machine that's about 35% faster than the current stuff?

[snip]

I have absolutely no doubt there is no such thing as "good enough"

If you think that something is ever "good enough" then you should just go bury yourself under a rock.

Yes, but in 3 years I'll buy the new mid-to-high end machine and I'll be good to go for another three.

And as far as "good enough..." It would appear that most of the world does believe there is a "good enough." Hence Windows' market-share.

[Link]

Originally posted by xe0:
Thanks for answering my questions guys.
Luca Rescigno I think pretty much has it spot on. In my short time using Macintosh systems it seems a valid observation to say that quite a number of people will always complain no matter what Apple do- at least quite a number of people who post here and on other Mac related forums.

Some people will be apple apologists no matter what.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
That said, we do know that the speed of your processor is directly proportional to the size of your penis.

So what does it mean then that I have two fast processors??

[osxisfun]

hermaphrodite.

[Macpilot]

What the heck is a "power-user" anyway? Sounds impressive whatever it means. What is the opposite of a power user?

I couldn't care less what people do with their G5s. I would like one just to stare at it. But right now I really can't justify the purchase which sucks.

I have a feeling that few people would be able to notice the speed difference between a 2.5 and a 3.0, given the fact that these 2.5 machines look awfully fast.

[Lateralus]

There are probably 13 year old girls who are more productive on their computer than I am. I basically surf the net (spend way too much time here...), listen to iTunes almost constantly, iChat, e-mail, occasionally encode various DVDs to AVI, and run RC5-72 24/7.

[Macpilot]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
There are probably 13 year old girls who are more productive on their computer than I am. I basically surf the net (spend way too much time here...), listen to iTunes almost constantly, iChat, e-mail, occasionally encode various DVDs to AVI, and run RC5-72 24/7.

Hey....what is RC5?

[Arkham_c]

I use my G5 most every day. A lot of the time it's playing World of Warcraft, which certainly takes advantage of all the processing power I have, but is not really justification for its purchase.

I'm burning a DVD as I write this. I don't do that every day, but it sure is nice to have it when I want to.

I have a 900Mhz G3 iBook that I use a lot more than my G5. I use it all day at work, and bring it home with me. It stores my email and my current web bookmarks. But all my music and digital pictures are on my G5 (two 160GB hard drives beats the single 30GB in my iBook). When I want to compile some big open source app, I do it on my G5. When I want to test some crazy Java thing I dream up and it's gonna use lots of RAM and CPU, I use my G5.

I bought this machine because (a) I make plenty of money and can afford it, (b) I wanted it, and (c) it was the fastest machine I could buy, so I was pretty sure it would be up to whatever I threw at it. I was right. I love it.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
Hey....what is RC5?

To put it simply;

It is a collective effort to crack the 72bit encryption. Basically, you run the client and your computer bombards the encryption with as many different combinations of numbers (keys) as it can. Some day, a computer will throw the correct key at the encryption and crack it.

The implementation is much like SETI in that it is a collective effort amassing the power of the computers of however many people want to participate in the project to acheive the goal. Except in this case, the goal isn't to find aliens, it is to crack encryptions.

One nice thing about RC5-72 is that it has heavy AltiVec optimizations. The G4 processes nearly 7x the number of keys per second than the Pentium 4, and nearly 4x more than the Athlon XP. So, modern Macs have a decisive advantage in the project over PCs.

If you'd like to read into it further, head on over to the homepageof the project or click on the link to the Team MacNN page in my signature.

[Zimwy]

I was personally a little disappointed with the no 3 ghz solely because I was looking to buy a new top of the line g5 and have it last a *while*. I don't think it particularly matters what you do with your computer. However, if you're going to pay around $3000, I feel it should last you a fair while before it starts to run the programs of the day at a beleagured pace. I was simply hoping I'd get a computer that would last me long*er*. Just my 2 cents.

[Link]

Originally posted by xe0:
And to all those that want these forth coming 2.5 systems- what will you actually do with all that grunt?

I wanna take it into a closet, close the door, and feel up it's slick aluminum finish... ohhhhhhhh

[eddiecatflap]

..i do incredibly important , earth shattering things on my mac

..when i can actually recall what they are , i'll let you know

..does posting here count ?

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by eddiecatflap:
..does posting here count ?

of course, all the people with high processor needs have large post counts

[xe0]

Originally posted by dampeoples:
of course, all the people with high processor needs have large post counts

and an appropriate shlong size.

[The Placid Casual]

I use my machine for work... mostly DBMS, SQL stuff, software testing apps, lots of UNIX stuff, VPC as well as Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign... etc etc

Oh and MS Word...

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by xe0:
and an appropriate shlong size.

that's e-shlong

[rezonate]

For what I do, the faster the better. In that regard, the G5's are still woefully slow compared to the Linux/Windows machines. The lack of hardware options is a deal breaker. Then there's the sheer lack of software, and what is available, is 90% of the time either crippled compared to non-MAcvesions, or just isn't available on the Mac.

G5's are nice machines, OS X is a fine OS, but to be just ok isn't good enough. There's also the appearacne factor. When you see Apple advertising their top-end G5 with 512MB ram, It screams out to me a company that has very little clue as to the needs of those requiring high-performance systems.

The Mac I have just now will be the last one for a good while, maybe I'l get a new Powerbook next year, but that'll be for personal things like writing, email, and surfing the web.

[trancepriest]

Rezonate,

Can you speak in specifics? As for me I use my dual 2ghz for Final Cut Pro and Photoshop.... I run a small home business mostly doing weddings and training videos. And I'm a Computer Science major in my 3rd year.

I still have a hard time getting Microsoft Outlook to read mail from my server... even though Outlook Express does. Why doesn't Outlook Express come with a built-in Spam Filter? I'm scared to death of Active-X on Internet Explorer. The other day I just finished an install of XP and in less than 10 minutes on the net a spyware ad was at the bottom of my screen.... thats not such a big deal.. but how do I remove the damn things... well ok I increased the internet security setting of IE to high... but now I have to plugin all the sites that I trust.. what a pain. OK so now I'm trying to watch an AVI movie and I need DIVX.. almost downloaded the Spyware version of DIVX.. how many free software have Spyware? How many ads can AOL Instant Messenger, MSN and Yahoo popup on your screen when they launch and as they are running? The answer infinite... was using my notebook yesterday with AIM running only to hear a voice coming from somewhere.. guess what it was an ad in AIM playing.

I'm not even gonna talk about Linux... I'm still having a hard time getting Fedora Core 2 to work with my wireless card on my M5305 e-machines notebook... and when it does I still can't get WEP encryption to work. Perhaps for what you do Linux is good... but I really can't count the major CREATIVE applications on Linux. Perhaps if more major Applications hit the platform I would consider it for purposes extending beyond running a web server. And as far as for your thing with benchmarks can't wait to see how the 2.5ghz fairs against the latest processors from Intel and AMD.

I've used PC's for 18 years until October of last year when I bought the Mac. Only problem I have with my G5 is sometimes getting it to wake from sleep. For me there is no other option but a Mac. Linux and XP no way... My dual 2ghz is damn fast for what I mainly use it for (video editing)... even if a PC was faster... I still wouldn't use it because I've adapted to the Mac feel and OS X. And as far as the appearance factor... LOL... I won't even go there. The other options don't have an appearance.

The factual question to ask is how much does a dual xeon (fastest processor)... cost when compared to the cost of a dual 64 bit 2.5Ghz water cooled G5. Someone compare the prices of even the fastest AMD 64 bit configurations. Let's talk the pro's and con's. Do you know a Dell Precision 360 Workstation with a single 2.8 GHz Intel Pentium 4, 512 megs of memory, 36GB Ultra 320 SCSI 1 inch (10,000 rpm), no sound, no modem, 48x CD-Rom, 17inch CRT monitor is $2032. What the heck is wrong with ya'll...you don't think a dual processor 64 bit 1.8 G5 beats that.. you don't think a refurbished dual 2GHZ G5 for as low as 2 grand beats that?

Alot of you guys still own G4's.. damn if a G5 is too damn slow and you need all the speed you can get... buy the 2.5GHZ. If the new 1.8's suck buy the old 1.8's. What's the problem? If 512mb's is too low order the computer with more memory. If you can't afford it use Linux or XP. I detect alot of cheap elitism here. Alot of people waiting on the sidelines verbally consuming. I'm waiting on my paycheck so I can get a 17" Powerbook to replace the e-machine notebook.. do I care if its a G4 processor? Hell no... i know many things lead to higher productivity and one of them sure isn't hating the system your using.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by rezonate:
For what I do, the faster the better. In that regard, the G5's are still woefully slow compared to the Linux/Windows machines. The lack of hardware options is a deal breaker. Then there's the sheer lack of software, and what is available, is 90% of the time either crippled compared to non-MAcvesions, or just isn't available on the Mac.

G5's are nice machines, OS X is a fine OS, but to be just ok isn't good enough. There's also the appearacne factor. When you see Apple advertising their top-end G5 with 512MB ram, It screams out to me a company that has very little clue as to the needs of those requiring high-performance systems.

The Mac I have just now will be the last one for a good while, maybe I'l get a new Powerbook next year, but that'll be for personal things like writing, email, and surfing the web.

Are you serious? I disagree with *a lot* of your post unless you are a *very* high end user...

What do you actually use your mac for?

[effgee]

Originally posted by rezonate:
For what I do, the faster the better. In that regard, the G5's are still woefully slow compared to the Linux/Windows machines. The lack of hardware options is a deal breaker. Then there's the sheer lack of software, and what is available, is 90% of the time either crippled compared to non-MAcvesions, or just isn't available on the Mac.

G5's are nice machines, OS X is a fine OS, but to be just ok isn't good enough. There's also the appearacne factor. When you see Apple advertising their top-end G5 with 512MB ram, It screams out to me a company that has very little clue as to the needs of those requiring high-performance systems.

The Mac I have just now will be the last one for a good while, maybe I'l get a new Powerbook next year, but that'll be for personal things like writing, email, and surfing the web.

where was that label again ... aah, there we go:

[milhous]

Originally posted by angelmb:
Hi, I suspect that the only "problem" was the 3GHz Steve Jobs´ promise.
Overpromise is not a good thing, though.

Bingo! End of discussion.

[rezonate]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Are you serious? I disagree with *a lot* of your post unless you are a *very* high end user...

What do you actually use your mac for?

I use them in the film indistry, have done for over 10 years. My area is high-end though, I work at a company called Industrial, Light and Magic, but on a year out to go work in Australia on a feature.
I should have elaborated more in my earlier post. But one major area, 3D animation, Macs don't cut it, not by a long shot. This would be fine if Macs weren't being portrayed as 3D animation platforms, but they are, hence the issue. So in that regard, and in comparison to Windows, Linux, or even Irix, I can base my experience on what Apple are doing now.

Let's look at the hardware. Overpriced, underpowered systems with very limited upgrade options really impact on their performance as competitors for the animation market. The software that is being released, is either hugely crippled (Maya, Lightwave, etc), or isn't even available (Softimage XSI, MAX, etc). In saying that though, the Mac hasn't really ever had a presence in this field, butwhen we get Apple demoing their systems, ful lof promises; it just comes off as a bad joke when they can't even configure their systems for this market.

So, the hardware is a major problem, the software is an even bigger one, and ones in which no solution is even on the horizon.

Do I use a Mac? Of course, we have Macs everywhere at ILM. At the moment I use a Powerbook for my personal use. I like it, but I hold no illusions as to what it, or a G5 is capable of.

Other problems that come mind are the old Apple loyal software developers. Adobe being an example. Photoshop on my Windows workstation is running rings round the G5's I am using right now. When i had to jump onto a dual 2Ghz G5 to run Discreet's Combustion, I thought someone was playing a joke on me cause it was so slow. Now, this is probably the software makes fault, they're probably not optimised, but am I really going to buy a G5 for certain video, or 3D tasks knowing that the software is crippled, or will I just buy the one PC workstation and know it wil be plain sailing?

The other thing is the myth of Macs being seamless for video work. I can assure you that many of us are having major problems wih Mac systems fir high-end video/film work. One of my friends in another studio just tossed out 20 cinema displays due to really crao colour shifting on them. Another friend ni a very well known studio brought in a number of G5's for film/advertising jobs; they've had nothing but problems with them from day one. These ae places that have used Macs for years, but used them as secondary editing/composoting systems; put them into the limelight, and whack, they're not holding up.

So my gripe is really just the perception of them in a high end environment, as of now. They don't curt it from my experience, and many others that I know of. Hope it changes, but we'll see.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by rezonate:
I use them in the film indistry, have done for over 10 years. My area is high-end though, I work at a company called Industrial, Light and Magic, but on a year out to go work in Australia on a feature.
I should have elaborated more in my earlier post. But one major area, 3D animation, Macs don't cut it, not by a long shot. This would be fine if Macs weren't being portrayed as 3D animation platforms, but they are, hence the issue. So in that regard, and in comparison to Windows, Linux, or even Irix, I can base my experience on what Apple are doing now.

Let's look at the hardware. Overpriced, underpowered systems with very limited upgrade options really impact on their performance as competitors for the animation market. The software that is being released, is either hugely crippled (Maya, Lightwave, etc), or isn't even available (Softimage XSI, MAX, etc). In saying that though, the Mac hasn't really ever had a presence in this field, butwhen we get Apple demoing their systems, ful lof promises; it just comes off as a bad joke when they can't even configure their systems for this market.

So, the hardware is a major problem, the software is an even bigger one, and ones in which no solution is even on the horizon.

Do I use a Mac? Of course, we have Macs everywhere at ILM. At the moment I use a Powerbook for my personal use. I like it, but I hold no illusions as to what it, or a G5 is capable of.

Other problems that come mind are the old Apple loyal software developers. Adobe being an example. Photoshop on my Windows workstation is running rings round the G5's I am using right now. When i had to jump onto a dual 2Ghz G5 to run Discreet's Combustion, I thought someone was playing a joke on me cause it was so slow. Now, this is probably the software makes fault, they're probably not optimised, but am I really going to buy a G5 for certain video, or 3D tasks knowing that the software is crippled, or will I just buy the one PC workstation and know it wil be plain sailing?

The other thing is the myth of Macs being seamless for video work. I can assure you that many of us are having major problems wih Mac systems fir high-end video/film work. One of my friends in another studio just tossed out 20 cinema displays due to really crao colour shifting on them. Another friend ni a very well known studio brought in a number of G5's for film/advertising jobs; they've had nothing but problems with them from day one. These ae places that have used Macs for years, but used them as secondary editing/composoting systems; put them into the limelight, and whack, they're not holding up.

So my gripe is really just the perception of them in a high end environment, as of now. They don't curt it from my experience, and many others that I know of. Hope it changes, but we'll see.

Thanks for the in-depth post, it explains a lot!! I thought that the reasoning behind your earlier comments would come down to the fact that you used the machines for pretty high end stuff... Cheers for the very interesting insight! It seems that the G5s are not cutting it in the industry as well as Apple portraying in the press!!

Peace,

Marc

P.S. ILM, very cool indeed! Can I be really rude and ask if the feature in Australia is the one that a lot of people could guess, and are enthusing about around the net?

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Can I be really rude and ask if the feature in Australia is the one that a lot of people could guess, and are enthusing about around the net?

Mad Max 4: Way, way beyond Thunderdome

[effgee]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
Mad Max 4: Way, way beyond Thunderdome

Aaaah crap. And I was hoping for a new "Crocodile Dundee" film. If it has to be that nutter Gibson, I vote for "The Passion of Max"

[trancepriest]

Rezonate,

If software optimization is the problem then what would having a dual 3GHz G5 solve? Basically from your post I read that you can't look at the Apple platform at all for the type of work you do.. and even an implication that the platform itself is widely not pro.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by trancepriest:

If software optimization is the problem then what would having a dual 3GHz G5 solve? Basically from your post I read that you can't look at the Apple platform at all for the type of work you do.. and even an implication that the platform itself is widely not pro.

What I got from his post is simply that in his particular branch of his particular industry, Macs don't work. I could name others where Windows won't work. There are always fringe situations where you need a specific platform. But for 99% of is the lack of SoftImage is really a non-issue, since it costs a lot of money, is really difficult to use, and requires a very specific talent/skill.

[trancepriest]

Photoshop is a widely used software, problems with G5's now that could be applied to everyone, cinema display problems hmmmm... well could always change the monitor. Wouldn't use a Cinema display for that type of work anyway. Software not being optimized from Apple Developers.. those are all problems that go beyond the animation industry. Basically he made an indictment against the entire platform. What are macs good for then? Just software from Apple? BTW what kind of PC workstation do u have?