[trancepriest]

Alienware Aurora
Processor: Single AMD Athlon 64 FX-53
Memory: 2GB
Harddrive: 120GB Seagate Barracuda® 7,200 RPM SATA
Video Card: ATI RADEON™ X800 XT Platinum Edition 256MB DDR3 w/Digital and TV Out
Optical Drives: Lite-On 16x DVD / 52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Lite-On 52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Price: $3081.00


Dual 2.5Ghz G5
Processors: Dual PowerPC 2.5 GHz
Memory: 512MB
Harddrive: 160GB Seagate Barracuda® 7,200 RPM SATA
Video Card: ATI Radeon 9600 XT w/128MB DDR SDRAM
Optical Drives: 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R)
Price: $3000.00

[SafariX]

and?

You're not even comparing similar specs.

Config a dual opteron, with similiar amounts of memory and a duplicate graphics card.

This is a waste of a comparison IMHO.

[Lateralus]

To lock, or not to lock...

[trancepriest]

I was comparing the prices... a single processor AMD 64 bit chip vs a dual processor 64 bit chip. My main focus was look at the price. For all those people complaining about not having a dual 3ghz G5... look at the competition! The Alienware doesn't even have a DVD burner and you have to pay extra for cable management... lol. come on guys we have it good in the Macworld. A dual 3ghz G5 system would have probably been $3500 and up anyway.

[SafariX]

Originally posted by trancepriest:
I was comparing the prices... a single processor AMD 64 bit chip vs a dual processor 64 bit chip. My main focus was look at the price. For all those people complaining about not having a dual 3ghz G5... look at the competition!

Yes, but you are mssing my original point. The memory, hard drive and graphics card are dissimilar, which makes the comparison invalid. You have to have at least ONE constant, whether its the idea of dual CPU's, or something else. Here, the only constant is that they are both around 3k. I can configure a lot of computer different ways for 3k, but to be most effective, the right comparison would contain as many shared specs as possible.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
To lock, or not to lock...

Ah go on... you know you want too

[Link]

For shits and giggles:

Custom roswell 4500 config:

*silver case, keyboard, mouse
*550w power supply (g5 has a 650w)
*Dual Opteron 244 1.8ghz (just to be fair)
*ATI FireGL T2 (hard to find a cheapass card like in the macs
*Corsair 1gb ddr 3200
*1 120gb Seagate barraaaaaacuuuuuuddaaaaaa
*Plextor 12x DVD+/-RW drive (couldn't find anything else)
*creative sound card
*56k modem
*Klipsch 2.1 speakers

$3635

Custom Apple G5 config:

*Dual 2.5ghz G5 processors
*1gb DDR400
*160gb hard drive
*Ati Radeon 9800XT (256mb)
*modem
*8x dvd-/+? RW drive
*Klipsch 5.1 speakers

$3742.95

About a $110 difference, can easily be counted in the speakers / SLIGHTLY bigger hard drive

Not to mention the g5 runs a hell of a lot quieter and comes with all sorts of cool software. All the alienware box comes with is a tshirt.

[trancepriest]

Exactly... we have an extra processor, a larger hard drive and a DVD Burner... so what if they have a better video card and 2 GB's of memory... would you lose out on an extra 64 bit processor, a larger hard drive and a DVD burner for that? So many people are bitching about not having the 3Ghz G5's... things are more expensive in PC land for lesser configured systems.

[SafariX]

Originally posted by trancepriest:
Exactly... we have an extra processor, a larger hard drive and a DVD Burner... so what if they have a better video card and 2 GB's of memory... would you lose out on an extra 64 bit processor, a larger hard drive and a DVD burner for that?

I never thought I'd say this, but re-read Link's post. He actually compared SIMILAR specs, with DUAL processors. So you're not losing a CPU or DVD burner... only 40gb.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Link:
For shits and giggles:

Custom roswell 4500 config:

*silver case, keyboard, mouse
*550w power supply (g5 has a 650w)
*Dual Opteron 244 1.8ghz (just to be fair)
*ATI FireGL T2 (hard to find a cheapass card like in the macs
*Corsair 1gb ddr 3200
*1 120gb Seagate barraaaaaacuuuuuuddaaaaaa
*Plextor 12x DVD+/-RW drive (couldn't find anything else)
*creative sound card
*56k modem
*Klipsch 2.1 speakers

$3635

Custom Apple G5 config:

*Dual 2.5ghz G5 processors
*1gb DDR400
*160gb hard drive
*Ati Radeon 9800XT (256mb)
*modem
*8x dvd-/+? RW drive
*Klipsch 5.1 speakers

$3742.95

About a $110 difference, can easily be counted in the speakers / SLIGHTLY bigger hard drive

Not to mention the g5 runs a hell of a lot quieter and comes with all sorts of cool software. All the alienware box comes with is a tshirt.

But that T-Shirt can count for a lot...

Oh, don't forget that you get 2 Apple stickers with the Mac box... that always tips it for me...!

[trancepriest]

SafariX,

Look carefully it was Dual 1.8 Opterons vs. Dual 2.5Ghz G5's in Link's post.

[Lateralus]

Roswell™ 4500 System

• Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
• Case: Alienware® Full-Tower Case (420-Watt PS) - Space Black
• Power Supply: Enermax EG465P-VE 24P 460 Watt Power Supply
• Motherboard: Tyan Tiger K8W S2875 Dual Opteron Motherboard
• Processor/s: Dual AMD Opteron™ 250 2.4 GHz 64-Bit
• Video Card: NVIDIA Quadro® FX 1100 128MB 8x AGP w/Dual DVI
• Memory: Corsair 1GB DDR PC3200 Registered ECC Server
• System Drive: High Performance - Serial ATA - 160GB Seagate Barracuda® 7,200 RPM
• Optical Drive One: Plextor PX-712A 12x DVD±R/W Drive
• Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround
• Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Intel® Gigabit Ethernet Adapter

$4,452.00


Power Mac G5

• Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
• 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
• 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9800 XT w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• 56k V.92 modem
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English

$3,449.00

[eddiecatflap]

..note how the pc has all the bragging rights ott nomenclature whilst the mac is just so much more subtle

[The Placid Casual]

Cool, unlockination! Never seen that before

[olePigeon]

G5 doesn't have Half-Life 2.

But then, neither does the PC yet.

And I don't think anyone will ever have Duke Nukem Forever.

[MindFad]

We really need FireGLs and X800s.

[Link]

I'll explain my comparison and the somewhat equal price:

The athlon 64 processors are quite capable, and in some cases SINGLE processor systems have been able to beat out dual g5 systems.. This was definitely put aside as benchmarking error though.

More realistically, I'd say the 2.5ghz g5 is more equivilent to a 2.2ghz athlon64 NOT a 2.4ghz. (well opteron, at least).. 2 of each means dual for each system.

I didn't bother going all the way but given all the ups and downs of both machines a dual 1.8 opteron//dual 2.0 opteron would be a very close match *I'd think*. Given that, and while alienware still doesn't put as much work into their machines as apple does theirs, the entire comparison is pretty sound.

In essence, for a 64 bit dual processor machine, the high end g5 is pretty inexpensive. The dual 2.0 is a great deal at this, and albeit the crappy video card and horribly low stock ram, the dual 1.8 isn't bad for those not interested in wiz-bang tech such as PCI-X...

Having said THAT, the dual 1.8 isn't all that -- provided you have to spend about $500 on ram and video card to bring it up to speed, the dual 2.0 will always be a better deal except for those who don't give a damn about those parts [ooh cluster users.. NOW it makes sense]

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by MindFad:
We really need FireGLs and X800s.

We do indeed

[Rev-O]

Who the hell is Alienware marketing to? The Alienware Aurora Extreme looks like a 12 year old's dream computer. It's all dark and mean looking with glowy blue lights! Jeepers! Oooo, and it's got a neato military ufoish sounding name. And look! It's even Extreme!

Its as ass ugly as the beige box pc's are bland.

If this is what Apple is forced to compete with, let's even the playing field, and call the forthcoming PowerMac the BiPower G5 UberMac Dominator 2.5. And put something snazzier than the white snooze light on it. Maybe something blood red. That's be sweet.

[trancepriest]

Well we definitely beat em on aesthetics, both on the outside with the design of the computer and in the inside with OS X and the soon to be tiger release. What cool features tiger will have to make us drool... will definitely be snazzier than the beasts Alienware is pushing out. Our sophistication level is way upthere, we have nifty water cooled high speed automobiles... sorry got a little carried away I meant computers... for a cheaper price at that too. The PC world is so square... the idea that someone would actually spend more money on that ugly thing... especially when they can build a uglier box for themselves that is even more meaner looking than the Alienware designs... just shows how crass the consumers are.

[Link]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Its as ass ugly as the beige box pc's are bland.

ON THE CONTRARY, I'd say alienware's boxes are EXTREMELY conservative.

You want ugly, you got it:


I call this the ricer case..

More of the ricer series:


Curtesy of OCSystem:


Even uglier cases:


Wannabe antec case:


Everyone wants to fit in and be different

[xe0]

and for comparison...



ok. well there really is no comparison

[djohnson]

Nice comparison!

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Who the hell is Alienware marketing to? The Alienware Aurora Extreme looks like a 12 year old's dream computer. It's all dark and mean looking with glowy blue lights! Jeepers! Oooo, and it's got a neato military ufoish sounding name. And look! It's even Extreme!

Ding ding ding. Gamers with more money than sense.

[Spliffdaddy]

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by Link:
More realistically, I'd say the 2.5ghz g5 is more equivilent to a 2.2ghz athlon64 NOT a 2.4ghz. (well opteron, at least).. 2 of each means dual for each system.

Please cite the relevant benchmarks, if possible. I'd like to see it for myself, rather than from a tertiary source, the data that substantiate such claims. It's not that I don't believe you, Link; I just prefer Reagan's approach - trust but verify. And I'd like to know how much all of this adds up to in real world terms.

[Eug Wanker]

From the various posts around internetland (of the G5 2.0 and the Opteron 1.8), the supposition that an Opteron 2.2 performance-wise is in the same ballpark of a G5 2.5 is a reasonable one. And that's if we exclude games (because as we all know, an Opteron will usually destroy the Mac in games).

[Peter]

Originally posted by Link:

Not to mention the g5 runs a hell of a lot quieter and comes with all sorts of cool software. All the alienware box comes with is a tshirt.

Thought it was a mousemat? and I'll think you find the Alienware comes with quite a bit of software. AND there warranty is way better than Apples IMO.

[McFarmer]

I've played around quite a bit comparing Alienware and PowerMac G5 prices and specs.

What I found is that when you try to spec similar machines that prices are about the same give/take. With the exception that the Alienware computers have:

- 6 HD bays (3 free SATA ports, 2 free IDE ports)
- 4 optical drive bays
- 4 RAM slots (vs. 8 on some G5s)
- 8 USB slots (7 free)
- pro graphic card like FireGL or Quadro.

As was said before you cannot compare dual 2.4GHz Opterons with 2.5GHz G5s. The G5s will probably lose on most benchmarks, if only because the applications tested are so much more tweaked for speed on the Windows side than on the Mac.
It's fairer to take 2-2.2GHz Opterons.

And remember that pro graphics card, even the cheap ones, are a lot more expensive than any graphics card on the Mac side, even the super-duper ATI 256MB card. Cheap stuff compared.

In regards to RAM slots you don't need more on Windows since it cannot address more than 4GB.

So if you get more HD bays, more drive bays and a pro graphics card for about the same price, I'm not sure the G5 is such a great deal afterall.

If it weren't for OS X... Which again seems to confirm that Mac users do pay a premium for their OS.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by McFarmer:
In regards to RAM slots you don't need more on Windows since it cannot address more than 4GB.

Yes you do because 1 GB RAM sticks are expensive as hell.

Plus, some people may run 64-bit Linux.

[Link]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Please cite the relevant benchmarks, if possible. I'd like to see it for myself, rather than from a tertiary source, the data that substantiate such claims. It's not that I don't believe you, Link; I just prefer Reagan's approach - trust but verify. And I'd like to know how much all of this adds up to in real world terms.

Most mac benchmarks only test the system's primary processor and it's video card. Most PC benchmarks are optimized to hell. This took both into account.

Originally Posted by Peter:
Thought it was a mousemat? and I'll think you find the Alienware comes with quite a bit of software. AND there warranty is way better than Apples IMO.

It didn't say anything about a mousepad, but it did talk about a free tshirt. THEIR warranty is a 1 year, though the phone tech support may be longer than 90 days, that I don't know. Trying to be fair here, they used to advertise (I have no idea if they still do) that the machines were personalized in that the manuals came with custom benchmarks, etc.. but I don't know if they still do that. Remember that the only things probably NOT stock in the alienware box are the case and POSSIBLY (though I highly doubt it) the cooling system. From what I've seen/heard they tend to use asus/abit/msi boards, brand name video cards, and well.. yeah.. there isn't nearly as much custom work in those machines as there would be in the average g5

Originally posted by McFarmer:

And remember that pro graphics card, even the cheap ones, are a lot more expensive than any graphics card on the Mac side, even the super-duper ATI 256MB card. Cheap stuff compared.

Ever price out a mac graphics card? The roms on them tend to be different to accomodate for mac firmware and the pricing on that pro card was probably the cheapest.

Keep in mind I partially dropped stats on things to make them moreso equal. It's no doubt that opterons can totally destroy a g5, and some benchmarks would even say a single athlon can do this do a dual g5 (well dual 2ghz at least).

The dual 1.8 athlon was conservative at best.. yes it's speculatory but that's optimistic. If you're going to really challenge it, you might be pushing the limit.. that's all I say.

It's hard to satisfy both the PC biased peeps and mac biased peeps Guess this is why I'm a multiplatform freak

[McFarmer]

Well, even if Linux can use more than 4GB, let's face it, most of the pro apps out there are Windows optimised and still don't care about more RAM. Some, like e.g. Photoshop can't even address more than 2GB. So 3GB of RAM should be more than enough on Windows XP.

Alienware charges you $509 extra for an additional 2GB of PC 3200 ECC RAM.
Yes, maybe more expensive than on a G5 where you can use 512MB sticks, but not massively so and at least you have the choice of using ECC memory, which is not available in PowerMacs at all.

Let's face it, G5 PowerMacs are more expensive (or you get less for the same amount of money). The Mac's true value lies in software, not hardware.

[goMac]

Opterons are server processors and run about as hot as an Easy Bake oven on scolding-burning-hot setting..

But to each his own...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by goMac:
Opterons are server processors and run about as hot as an Easy Bake oven on scolding-burning-hot setting..

Hmmm... An Easy Bake oven uses a 100 Watt light bulb.



A 2.2 GHz Opteron probably does run close to that, but then again so does a G5 2.5. A G5 2.0 970FX is cool, but a G5 2.5 is much hotter, and is probably as hot as a 2.2 GHz Opteron. (The power rating that IBM gives the 2.5 970FX is double the power rating of the 2.0 970FX.)

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by MindFad:
We really need FireGLs and X800s.

Yep.

[RooneyX]

You can build a dual Athlon 64 with better specs than the top G5 for half the cost. The comparisons made in this thread are blind and uneducated. As a Mac user I'm sometimes guilty of the same slanted opinion but have to be realistic. That chart for example, a G5 has better power consumption than an Athlon? There are Athlon 3400+ CPUs in laptops that don't have huge heatsinks and don't melt the cases. Battery life of 1.5 hours isn't a factor because those are desktop replacements and for mobile gamers.

Also, someone posted a price comparison that had an Athlon with a workstation graphics card worth 600 bucks instead of the lame 100 buck card the G5 comes with. Come on, make a proper comparion with regard to performance/price.

That said, the G5 represents better value for money ever and the performance is right up there. It could be cheaper but won't be. Other companies also include monitors. We also get that budget graphics card.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
You can build a dual Athlon 64 with better specs than the top G5 for half the cost.

Prove it.

[hmurchison2001]

You can build a dual Athlon 64 with better specs than the top G5 for half the cost

Yes again another prove it.

You must have

FW 800
Hypertransport links
Gigabit Ethernet
SPDIF out
AGP 8x
PCI-X(if your final tally is over $1000)
bluetooth
54Mbps wireless option
SATA
Aluminum Case
WinXP Pro(you can't use Home because of it's crippled networking)

I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone boasted this. While it's true you can build a PC for half the cost there are always some tradeoffs and considering the lack of of unified support. There will always be builders of PCs..it's fun. But when you need the least amount of hassle and capable support you have to go with a reputable company.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
You can build a dual Athlon 64 with better specs than the top G5 for half the cost. The comparisons made in this thread are blind and uneducated. As a Mac user I'm sometimes guilty of the same slanted opinion but have to be realistic. That chart for example, a G5 has better power consumption than an Athlon? There are Athlon 3400+ CPUs in laptops that don't have huge heatsinks and don't melt the cases. Battery life of 1.5 hours isn't a factor because those are desktop replacements and for mobile gamers.

Also, someone posted a price comparison that had an Athlon with a workstation graphics card worth 600 bucks instead of the lame 100 buck card the G5 comes with. Come on, make a proper comparion with regard to performance/price.

That said, the G5 represents better value for money ever and the performance is right up there. It could be cheaper but won't be. Other companies also include monitors. We also get that budget graphics card.

If you take quality parts and high-end configs, you won't. The Opteron 250 is currently listed at 950 Euro. A piece! A server/workstation motherboard (e. g. by Tyan) easily adds another 450-600 Euro. Plus graphics card, plus memory, plus a good power supply (no cheap no-name stuff), plus a quality case, etc.

So I don't think so.
Even if you downgrade the specs (e. g. Opteron 246, around 530 Euro a piece), you won't be able to do that. Unless you can buy your equipment at a tremendous discount.

You can upgrade to a Radeon 9800 XT which is among the fastest gaming cards around (at least on the PC).

I'm not a zealot for any side, but if you write stuff like this, just because you think, you can take a screwdriver and build the system for half the price, think again. (I have built a couple of PCs already, no Opteron gear though )

[Lateralus]

From NewEgg.com:

KINGWIN SILVER All Aluminum 10-Bay Mid tower case, Model "KT-424-S"
$76.00

Pioneer Black 8X DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model DVR-107, OEM
$87.00

Seagate 160GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3160023A, OEM
$110.75

Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard PS/2 102keys -OEM
$17.00

(2) Crucial 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200 4T - OEM
$104.00

Encore 56K V.92 Internal PCI Fax Modem(NetoDragon), Model ENF656-ESW-NDPR - Retail
$7.50

TYAN "Thunder K8S(S2880UGNR)" AMD-8000 Chipset Server Motherboard for Dual AMD Opteron CPU -RETAIL
$434.60

Microsoft Intelli Mouse PS/2 -OEM
$8.00

ENERMAX Noisetaker 600W Power Supply, Model "EG701P-VE SFMA" -RETAIL
$168.00

(2) AMD Opteron Model 248, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - RETAIL
$1,378.00

Microsoft Windows XP Professional with Service Pack SP1a - OEM
$141.00

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 PCI Sound Card, Model "SB0226" -OEM
$28.00

ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
$169.00

IOGEAR FireWire 800 3-port PCI Card, Model GIC3800 - Retail
$49.00

---------------------
Product total: $2,777.85
Shipping & Handling: $ 44.50
Total (Before tax): $ 2,822.35

[hmurchison2001]

RoonyX you're screwed.

Just went to Newegg to see in any Mobo manuf made dual socket 754s. They don't. Which means you can't uses the cheaper Athlon64 chips.

You're gonna have to go dual Socket 939 if you can find a board. Or dual socket 940. Expensive, plus they are unlikely to have PCI-X at a decent price.

I just re-read you post and you claim to actually have "better" specs at half the price. If you can accomplish this to our satisfaction then you are a PC building God.

AthlonFX/Opteron cpus are huge dies. AMD is probably barely making any money even off of 300MM fabs. This is just not conducive to $1500 systems that are Powermac beaters.

[hmurchison2001]

Great job PowerMacMan.

Even at that price you're missing PCI-X and FW800. This system you set up couldn't use a HD Uncompressed Capture board. PCI bandwidth is too slow.

Before the Dual 2.5Ghz came out you could do it because of the cheaper processors. But now the 2.5Ghz has upped the ante and you must choose faster Athlons/Opterons to compete.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
Great job PowerMacMan.

Even at that price you're missing PCI-X and FW800.

Thanks.

Just added the FW800 card, not much I can do about PCI-X though.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
You can build a dual Athlon 64 with better specs than the top G5 for half the cost.

There is no such thing as a dual Athlon 64.

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
(2) Spire KestrelKing III CPU Cooler For Socket 754 / 940, AMD Recommended, Model "SP703C3-1" -RETAIL
$29.98

(2) AMD Opteron Model 250, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - OEM
$1,700.00

Zonet 54Mbps Wireless PCI Adapter, Model ZEW1600Z - Retail
$39.50

As has been said before, a closer comparison to the G5 2.5 would be the Opteron 248. The full retail Opteron 248 with heatsink and fan goes for $1378 for two. Also, the dual G5 doesn't come with a wireless adapter.

So you can lop about $420 off that price of yours - $2600.

Not that I'd buy that POS Frankenbox though.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Thanks.

Just added the FW800 card, not much I can do about PCI-X though.

Yes, you can.
Add About 200-250 Euro and buy another mobo, _Tyan's Thunder K8S Pro S2882G3NR for instance offers PCI-X and one legacy 5V PCI slot (something, the PowerMac doesn't have.

So the total would be above the PowerMac's price tag, for a system that you have built yourself.

Also not included are (unless supplied with the case) case fans. One might also take a look at more sophisticated CPU coolers (my brother has spent considerably more on his Athlon coolers).

[Lateralus]

Good points.

I was going to add a more sophisticated and expensive CPU cooling setup, but I had premonitions of bitching about how I was being too extravagant and the average person building a PC wouldn't buy blah blahhhh blahhhhhhhhh....

[Lateralus]

Alrighty.

Per Eug's suggestion, I stepped down to retail boxed Opteron 248s and got rid of the two rinky-dink fans I had on there before and dumped the wireless adapter. I also stepped up the a higher end Tyan with PCI-X slots.

New price is $2822.35, shipped.

[Peter]

Who the heck wants PCI-X

[Spliffdaddy]

Nobody. But it makes these Apple/peecee comparisons more difficult. "Nope, that's not the same thing....the PowerMac has PCI-X slots..so that makes up for the $600 difference in price."

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Nobody. But it makes these Apple/peecee comparisons more difficult. "Nope, that's not the same thing....the PowerMac has PCI-X slots..so that makes up for the $600 difference in price."

That's not true.
Many high-end cards (and I'm not talking about 5V Ultra SCSI cards and such) come as PCI-X only or can only be fully used with PCI-X. That's why those high-end PC boards also feature it.