[Goofas]

I am an 8 day old mac user. I went into my study this morning to check my mail and my eMac was off. This was odd since it has been going into sleep at night. I pushed the power button and nothing happened. I then unplugged the computer and plugged it back in. I tried the power button once angain and that was when the fun started. POOF!!!!white smoke from the rear of the machine. GREAT! I decided to call Apple since the eMac is only 8 days old. I was told a customer service person would call me back in up to 4 hours to give me options on a refund, return or repair. 6 hours and 4 phone calls later I was told I would have to eat 10% for a refund on a defective eMac. Not the right answer in my book. My other option was to send to repair center....wrong again. I do not want a repaired fire hazzard in my home; would you? Finally after many many curse words and crying like a baby for being a "switcher", Apple decided to exchange my eMac for a new one. Great.....wrong. I have within 10 miles of me 2 CompUSA's and the only FREAKIN Apple store in Houston. "Can I take it to one of these stores for exchange" I ask; HELL NO! I have to ship the crispy eMac back to Apple and wait days for a new eMac via FedEx. Great policy Apple. Now I know why there are not more Apple users. I wish I had researched this company more and I pray to God this next eMac holds up more than 8 days. I feel like I have been royally screwed by Apple for being a "Switcher".

[iREZ]

Stop your whining, ok you got a defective eMac and now your getting a new one, whats the problem (other then having to wait a few days)? First off the eMac is not a potential firehazard, second if you don't like Apple chuck the sucker on ebay and sell it to someone who needs it and buy yourself a PC. I don't understand peoples knowledge sometimes, if you want a Mac get one, if you don't then don't, nobody forced you to buy an Apple.

[Ryan Becker]

Yeah, I'm sure Dell and Gateway have never shipped a defective computer, right?

"I am an 8 day old mac user."

I've never heard of an 8 day old person using a computer before... you should be proud of yourself.

In all sincerity though, shtuff happens and you got a lemon... it even happens to the best of us. Don't let this ruin your Apple experience, because I can assure you that you will enjoy your computer.... once it gets working.

-Ryan

[f1000]

iREZ, that’s uncalled for: Macs can, on rare occasions, burst into flames.

Goofas, I’m sorry that you had such a bad experience with your first Mac, but I’m sure that the replacement eMac Apple sends you will turn out to be a great machine. I agree that Apple should better integrate its retail stores with its online store.

If there’s a silver lining to all of this, it’s probably that you learned the value of backing up of your important data at all times.

[storer]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
"I am an 8 day old mac user."
I've never heard of an 8 day old person using a computer before... you should be proud of yourself.
[/B]

LOL.
Do you think DELL would give you a refund as soon as apple would if this happened? Not likely. Do you think they would replace it as easy as apple did? NO! So seriously, stop the whining. SOMEONE has to get a dud now and again. It happens often. But you know at least that when you get your mac, using it will be much more rewarding than whinging about it.

[iREZ]

iREZ, that’s uncalled for: Macs can, on rare occasions, burst into flames.

What's uncalled for? Oh, I guess my TV, VCR, Powerbook, camcorder, and camera are all potential fire hazards? I didn't say they don't catch on fire every once in a billion times, but calling them a fire hazard is more absurd then the starting post.

[f1000]

Originally posted by iREZ:
What's uncalled for? Oh, I guess my TV, VCR, Powerbook, camcorder, and camera are all potential fire hazards? I didn't say they don't catch on fire every once in a billion times, but calling them a fire hazard is more absurd then the starting post.

Goofas didn’t call all consumer electronics or even all Macs fire hazards, so don’t start with the hyperbole.

According to FEMA, electrical appliances cause approximately 20,000 house fires each year. TV’s are usually the culprit in a tenth of those fires. Since there are about 232.8 M televisions in the U.S. (1999), the odds of a TV causing a major house fire is about 1:100,000. Throw in VCR’s, camcorders, and computers, and the odds would increase to one in a few tens of thousands,

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/public/factsheets/circuit.shtm


Electrical appliances would cause even more fires if it weren’t for recalls. Below are some laptop statistics from Consumer Reports:

APPLE
At issue: Recall, July 6, 2001.
Model: PowerBook G3
Part: AC adapters
Number of units: 570,000 sold worldwide from May 1998 through March 2000.
The problem: These AC adapters could overheat, posing a fire hazard. Apple received six reports of these adapters overheating. No injuries have been reported.

COMPAQ
At issue: Recall, October 27, 2000.
Models: Armada E500 and V300 notebook computers and individual batteries sold worldwide from June 2000 through July 2000.
Part: Battery pack.
Number of units: 55,000.
The problem: The battery packs can short circuit, causing them to overheat, smoke, and possibly catch fire. Compaq has received one report of a battery pack overheating and damaging the notebook computer. No injuries were reported.

DELL
At issue: Recall, May 3, 2001.
Models: Inspiron 5000 and Inspiron 5000(e) notebook computers and batteries sold nationwide in the U.S. from January 7, 2000, to March 31, 2001.
Part: Battery.
Number of units: 284,000.
The problem: These batteries can overcharge, causing them to become very hot, release smoke, and possibly catch fire. Dell has received one report of a battery overcharging, resulting in minor property damage. No injuries have been reported.

DELL
At issue: Recall, October 13, 2000.
Models: Latitude CPiA, CPiR, CPtC, CPtS, CPtV, CPxH, and CPxJ and Inspiron 3700 and 3800 notebook computers and individual batteries sold June 22, 2000, through September 15, 2000, in North, Central, and South America and June 22, 2000 through October 4, 2000, in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
Part: Batteries.
Number of units: 27,000.
The problem: The batteries can short circuit, even when the battery is not in use, causing them to become very hot, smoke, and possibly catch fire. Dell has received one report of a battery in a Dell computer short circuiting and catching fire. The incident resulted in minor property damage. No injuries were reported.

IBM
At issue: Recall, May 18, 2000.
Models: ThinkPad 310 (type 2600 only) notebook computers, IBM ThinkPad i Series (type 2611 only) notebook computers, and IBM WorkPad z50 (type 2608 only) companion devices and individual adapters sold worldwide May 1997 through November 1999.
Part: AC adapters.
Number of units: 320,000 worldwide; 220,000 in the U.S.
The problem: The AC adapters can overheat, posing a fire hazard. IBM has received nine reports of the AC adapters overheating, including one report of fire causing minor damage. There have been no reports of injuries.

[Goofas]

You guys are a buch of ass holes. Thanks for the uplifting conversation. Now I am really glad to be a part of this Apple cult!

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Goofas:
You guys are a buch of ass holes. Thanks for the uplifting conversation. Now I am really glad to be a part of this Apple cult!

Haha! Well, when you present yourself like that, how should we react? We are Apple fans here, not their employees, so when you attack Apple, expect to get attacked back...

And, I didn't think my post was rude... I tried to be light hearted and serious at the same time, but I guess it came off wrong.

-Ryan

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Goofas:
You guys are a buch of ass holes. Thanks for the uplifting conversation. Now I am really glad to be a part of this Apple cult!

You're not getting it.

Being part of the Apple cult means you give up all rights to personal happiness, even with Apple products.
You are supposed to repeatedly testify that Apple is THE sh**, no matter what.

Ready ?



-t

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Goofas:
You guys are a buch of booty holes. Thanks for the uplifting conversation. Now I am really glad to be a part of this Apple cult!

Wow, way to get everyone here against you. In the future please refrain from personnal attacks(in this case against every single macnn user...) bad idea if you want to ever get help.

Oh and IBL...

[storer]

Originally posted by Goofas:
You guys are a buch of ass holes. Thanks for the uplifting conversation. Now I am really glad to be a part of this Apple cult!

Oh really. LOL. Thats funny. I thought I was being nice...

But anyway, we aren't a cult, even though ihateapple.com gave a prize to a piece of art about the God Steve Jobs and all his "maccies."

[jccbin]

Hey, I read the thread, and can say with that you all were anuses (also known as not empathetic or sympathetic), except for f1000.

Dell would indeed have replaced this computer within 48 hours without waiting for the return (they would have his credit card number, too, so they would have recourse).

Apple should have directed him to the local Apple store and arranged the exchange there. Instead, the nincompoops at the phone bank did what they are trained to do: RIP people OFF. That's what telehooking is: Bait and Switch, lie, threaten and belittle.

Goofas, You could still take the eMac to the Apple Store near you and press for an exchange. You might or might not succeed since the mail-return process has already begun.

Regardless, you have an absolute right of return within 10-14 days depending on your state laws.

The first time you get an nincompoop on the phone, tell him 'Bye and call back, asking for a CUSTOMER SERVICE rep, NOT Tech Support.

Start with CS, then they will give you to a Techie for the tech details of the problem, then the CS rep will handle the returns/fixes.

[Graymalkin]

Wait a second, MacNN folk are "ass holes" because you're a whiney brat? You were offered a repair or an exchange at no cost to you. Neither of these suited your fancy so you started cursing and crying. You're complaining that Apple offered to send you a free replacement for your broken computer. Were you hoping for a gold toilet seat and a back massage to go along with it?

I honestly can't understand your problem here. You wanted CompUSA or an Apple Store to handle your replacement when it is pretty obvious that Apple are the ones honoring your warranty. Wal•Mart isn't responsible for HP's warranty contracts. I don't know where you get the idea that some third party retailer like CompUSA is going to give you a replacement eMac.

If you want to get anywhere with people over the phone the correct course of action doesn't include multiple phone calls and cursing. You were told they'd call you back in four hours yet you mention you called them four times over six hours. You didn't want a repaired system and bitched when they offered to replace it. So what if you had to wait a week to get your eMac back? Expecting a retailer to give you one because Apple said so is a bit absurd.

I hope you enjoy your eMac when you get it back. In the future you ought to behave yourself better over the phone and on a forum. You'll get a lot farther with people in this way.

[tooki]

Originally posted by iREZ:
Oh, I guess my TV, VCR, Powerbook, camcorder, and camera are all potential fire hazards?

Correct.

Did you hear about the girl whose butt was burned when her cellphone battery exploded in her pocket last week or so?

In my building, there was a fire in another unit -- the guy's microwave oven (not in operation; he was out of town) shorted out and caught fire.

Any device that uses any appreciable amount of electricity is capable of causing a fire in case of short circuit, which sometimes just... happens.

tooki

[PHoynak]

I have had nothing but good customer service from Apple. A few years ago my iBook battery died and I had the Applecare so they were going to ship me a new one. I didn't have a credit card at the time to cover the cost of the battery if I did not send the old one back so I tried my debit card. A few days passed and I called and found out the exchange was on hold since the debit card (Visa) not cleared. I saw their point but I still emailed Steve Jobs, I told him I was a loyal customer (3 Macs in 3 years) and asked if they could send the battery before I sent the other one back. I was outside a day or two later when my wife brought me the phone. The Apple employee said Steve Jobs wanted him to call me to let me know the battery was in the mail and I could keep the old one. They did not have to do that at all, I asked nicely and they came through for me.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by PHoynak:
I saw their point but I still emailed Steve Jobs...
The Apple employee said Steve Jobs wanted him to call me to let me know...

Wow, I wonder how many Steve Jobs' work at Apple customer service...



-t

[nredman]

Originally posted by Goofas:
I am an 8 day old mac user. I went into my study this morning to check my mail and my eMac was off. This was odd since it has been going into sleep at night. I pushed the power button and nothing happened. I then unplugged the computer and plugged it back in. I tried the power button once angain and that was when the fun started. POOF!!!!white smoke from the rear of the machine. GREAT! I decided to call Apple since the eMac is only 8 days old. I was told a customer service person would call me back in up to 4 hours to give me options on a refund, return or repair. 6 hours and 4 phone calls later I was told I would have to eat 10% for a refund on a defective eMac. Not the right answer in my book. My other option was to send to repair center....wrong again. I do not want a repaired fire hazzard in my home; would you? Finally after many many curse words and crying like a baby for being a "switcher", Apple decided to exchange my eMac for a new one. Great.....wrong. I have within 10 miles of me 2 CompUSA's and the only FREAKIN Apple store in Houston. "Can I take it to one of these stores for exchange" I ask; HELL NO! I have to ship the crispy eMac back to Apple and wait days for a new eMac via FedEx. Great policy Apple. Now I know why there are not more Apple users. I wish I had researched this company more and I pray to God this next eMac holds up more than 8 days. I feel like I have been royally screwed by Apple for being a "Switcher".

my first mac (powerbook g3 wallstreet) crapped out on me back in 98 after having it about a month. overheating problem or something, sent it back and it was fine after that...i have owned many macs since then with no problems. it sucks but dont get down. good luck.

[dandbj]

Originally posted by Goofas:
I6 hours and 4 phone calls later I was told I would have to eat 10% for a refund on a defective eMac. Not the right answer in my book.

This is the real issue. He was told that he had to pay a restocking fee for a defective product. That is illegal in most states as the product was clearly a lemon and such a policy would run afoul of the law in most states. Goofas was right to be very upset at this point. Anyone defending this is just plain wrong.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Goofas:
... My other option was to send to repair center....wrong again. I do not want a repaired fire hazzard in my home; would you? ...

A little info on how repairs are done from someone who does repairs:

The bad part in your machine is the Display/Analog assembly. This is a single assembly that includes the CRT, the Analog/Video board, and the Power Supply. This entire assembly would be replaced if you brought the machine to the local repair center. It would not be *fixed*. It would be replaced. The logic board, hard drive, optical drive, etc... would still be the originals, but they are far from being fire hazards.

To put this in perspective: suppose you have a remote-controlled space heater. The space heater goes bad. Is the remote control a fire hazard? Of course not. Is the remote control part of the problem? Not in this situation. Would you have a problem keeping the original remote control? You shouldn't.

If you haven't had this situation resolved yet, I would recommend taking the eMac to your local repair center and tell them about the smoke coming from the rear of the machine. Depending on how backed up they are, you could have the machine back the next day.

[Landos Mustache]

Return the Mac and get a flawless PC you grump.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Detrius:
To put this in perspective: suppose you have a remote-controlled space heater. The space heater goes bad. Is the remote control a fire hazard? Of course not. Is the remote control part of the problem? Not in this situation. Would you have a problem keeping the original remote control? You shouldn't.

You're ignoring the business adage, "the customer is always right."

Goofas is obligated to a full refund on his lemon if he so chooses it. It's an issue of trust between the manufacturer and the customer. He was sold a piece of junk from the get-go, so it's the manufacturer's responsibility to take a loss.

Nevermind customers' rights legislation, it's simply bad policy to alienate customers. If I bought a new Mac and it started emitting smoke within a week, I'd return it and demand an exchange as well.

[iREZ]

If I bought a new Mac and it started emitting smoke within a week, I'd return it and demand an exchange as well.

Yeah but he's not asking for an exchange, he's asking for a full refund.

[f1000]

Originally posted by iREZ:
Yeah but he's not asking for an exchange, he's asking for a full refund.

No he did not. He simply mentioned that Apple would charge a restocking fee if he chose to accept a refund.

In any case, it should be his prerogative whether or not he decides to return or exchange the item. Apple shouldn’t charge a restocking fee for a product with a manufacturing defect.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by f1000:
You're ignoring the business adage, "the customer is always right."

Goofas is obligated to a full refund on his lemon if he so chooses it. It's an issue of trust between the manufacturer and the customer. He was sold a piece of junk from the get-go, so it's the manufacturer's responsibility to take a loss.

Nevermind customers' rights legislation, it's simply bad policy to alienate customers. If I bought a new Mac and it started emitting smoke within a week, I'd return it and demand an exchange as well.

Piece of junk? Just because the faulty power supply that worked fine from the beginning blew? Replace the part and it unit is fine.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Piece of junk? Just because the faulty power supply that worked fine from the beginning blew? Replace the part and it unit is fine.

If a product emits smoke and other potentially carcinogenic fumes 8 days after its purchase, then it's a piece of junk. Goofas shouldn't have to settle for a repaired item.

Since repairing the computer is such a trivial issue, Apple should reuse the parts from the defective computer as spares for its tech support division. Optionally, it could donate repaired machines to non-profit orgs.

Can somebody confirm Apple's policy of charging a restocking fee for returns on defective items?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by f1000:
If a product emits smoke and other potentially carcinogenic fumes 8 days after its purchase, then it's a piece of junk. Goofas shouldn't have to settle for a repaired item.

Since repairing the computer is such a trivial issue, Apple should reuse the parts from the defective computer as spares for its tech support division. Optionally, it could donate repaired machines to non-profit orgs.

Can somebody confirm Apple's policy of charging a restocking fee for returns on defective items?

What computer manufacturer guarantees 100% that it will not have a defective component in it?

[iREZ]

I was told I would have to eat 10% for a refund on a defective eMac. Not the right answer in my book. My other option was to send to repair center....wrong again.

Uhhh.....to me it sounds like he didn't want to pay the 10% or return it for repair, he just wanted his money back.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
What computer manufacturer guarantees 100% that it will not have a defective component in it?

I never faulted Apple for making defective products. I faulted Apple for having a lousy return policy (if indeed Goofas' story is true).

In addition to the ubiquitous lemon laws for cars, some states now have lemon laws for computers, as well.

[f1000]

Originally posted by iREZ:
Uhhh.....to me it sounds like he didn't want to pay the 10% or return it for repair, he just wanted his money back.

He wanted an exchange, but Apple wouldn't let him do it through a retail store. Maybe he doesn't know that if his eMac was BTO, then the Apple Store wouldn't stock his particular model.

[iREZ]

That's probably whats happening and he doesn't know and is lashing out against Apple for it. I don't see what the problem is on just getting it repaired. Here's to the first agreement I have with f1000 in this thread.

[strictlyplaid]

Not sure where all the hostility came from in this thread... honestly, you can't fault the guy for being upset when his brand-new computer (with Apple's vaunted superior hardware) nearly exploded into flames, and then Apple tried to charge him 10% for taking the thing back. (Just think what would have been said in this thread if a Dell user had related this experience?) Further, Apple's tech support is known to be problematic, as others in the forums have related. Example:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=184626

Goofas, if you are fed up with Macs (which is probably a little unfair - all manufacturers have some problems, and Dell Tech support has its foibles too), you might consider taking the suggestion of selling the new one on eBay and buying a PC. They command quite a premium there.

Come on guys... Apple has problems too.

[Goofas]

Well; here it is, 9 days later and a "new" eMac delivered. I say "new" because there is a 5 inch scuff on the side of the unit.....refurb? as long as the thing works and is smoke free I will be ok with the cosmetic damage. I should call Apple and complain but I am sure I will get nowhere except 9 more days without a computer. Those of you that understand my frustration...thanks. I will cont to look at Apples forum for help as a new user.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by f1000:
You're ignoring the business adage, "the customer is always right."

Goofas is obligated to a full refund on his lemon if he so chooses it. It's an issue of trust between the manufacturer and the customer. He was sold a piece of junk from the get-go, so it's the manufacturer's responsibility to take a loss.

Nevermind customers' rights legislation, it's simply bad policy to alienate customers. If I bought a new Mac and it started emitting smoke within a week, I'd return it and demand an exchange as well.

I really hate to say this but customer's are morons. They are usually wrong. I learned this quickly from my time working at Radio Shack.

[Goofas]

I have had my replacement for about 2 weeks now. I added another 512mb to total 1gb of ram. All is great so far. My only complaint is the crummy internal speakers. I will get some JBL duets soon.

[storer]

Originally posted by Goofas:
I have had my replacement for about 2 weeks now. I added another 512mb to total 1gb of ram. All is great so far. My only complaint is the crummy internal speakers. I will get some JBL duets soon.

Good 2 hear!