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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Next iMac revision will still be a G4

Next iMac revision will still be a G4
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Jul 2, 2004, 03:47 PM
 
No rock hard facts but just commen sense. If there is indeed a case re-design I highly suspect it will be for a shallower desktop footprint which means that there will be less room for cooling. For those who say they did it in the Xserve well yeah but the thing is 3 feet deep. They're working on scaling the G5 for such uses but it won't be ready for a september delivery and regardless they'll premier it in the Powerbook first. The fact that Apple has now released a statement saying that they expected to release the iMac revision now puts an even bigger hamper on the G5 inclusion.

What I do expect out of the iMac Sept. rev. is not just a smaller footprint but an iPod mini like case (abeit much larger). Annodized aluminum in an assortment of colors. Probably a max processor speed of about 1.4 (intentionally scaled back not to outshine the powerbook).

Other specs of note:
bluetooth keyboard and mouse
built in docking bay specific for the ipod mini
a handle for carrying around the house

Software specs:
1 year paid subscription to .Mac. Just a hunch but really what does Apple have to lose by offering this?

With the booming economy and huge success of the iPod, Apple has a shot of gaining marketshare again like they did with the original iMac. I believe the reason the first iMac G4 (partially) failed was timing.

The biggest obstacle the iMac has is the fact that seven years ago laptops were still cost prohibitave for 90% of computer users. Now you can buy a decent laptop for less than the cost of an iMac. Apple needs to put something revolutionary back into the iMac line besides a swiveling neck to attract buyers.
( Last edited by Evan_11; Jul 2, 2004 at 04:04 PM. )
     
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Jul 2, 2004, 04:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Evan_11:
The biggest obstacle the iMac has is the fact that seven years ago laptops were still cost prohibitave for 90% of computer users. Now you can buy a decent laptop for less than the cost of an iMac. Apple needs to put something revolutionary back into the iMac line besides a swiveling neck to attract buyers.
This a strongly agree with.

However I don't agree that your predictions fall under the heading of "revolutionary". Not even close.

The fastest G4 is already in every machine that is going to use it. Why would Apple wait this long to put a 6 month old chip in a product with horrible price/performance ratio and endlessly lagging sales?

If Apple tried to put a G5 in the iMac and failed (prompting this unprecedented apology), they would simply start selling the existing iMac again. Why issue an announcement for a product launch in the future simply to debut a product that hasn't changed in over a year?
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Jul 2, 2004, 04:21 PM
 
Turn on the spelling checker dude, it's "commen" sense.

Why redesign if you weren't going to go to single G5s? Doesn't make any sense to release G4s in a new form (and it has to be a new form at least, otherwise they'd just announce new specs) with G5s all but certain in the next year.

It makes perfect sense. Keep the towers at duellies and the iMac at single G5s (upgrading the Mac line just as the recent changes which brought everything to G4.

I would think it'll stay white. Silver for the Power line, white for the i/e line.

No sense having a handle. Just make it an iBook in that case.

Now, I can see it being with a wireless keyboard/combo.

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Jul 2, 2004, 04:27 PM
 
Originally posted by Evan_11:
No rock hard facts but just commen sense...
"Commen" sense says you don't have any.
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Jul 2, 2004, 04:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
Turn on the spelling checker dude, it's "commen" sense.
What.
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Jul 2, 2004, 05:08 PM
 
Sorry, Evan_11...it will be a G5.
     
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Jul 2, 2004, 07:49 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
This a strongly agree with.

However I don't agree that your predictions fall under the heading of "revolutionary". Not even close.

Putting a 1.6 ghz processor in an iMac is far from revolutionary as well.

When the iMac G4 debuted it was a huge step up from its predecessor. The included Superdrive, flatscreen, stunning design as well as being a good value made for strong sales...at first.

If Apple is to innovate again with the next iMac it will have to be something new and fresh. A box holding a G5 will not cut it.

If they are going the tablet route, which is a possibility then it will have to be a G4.
     
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Jul 2, 2004, 08:00 PM
 
Can we please keep all this discussion in one thread? There are already four others:

- one
- two
- three
- four

Mods, can we lock down some of these? Let's go with this one.
     
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Jul 3, 2004, 12:01 AM
 
The iMac and the powerbook cater to different markets. One is portable, one is not.

A G5 iMac is a must for the next version to survive. It must be revolutionary. Only the G5 is such a beast.

The new iMac should be interesing. How much better can one improve on the G4 iMac? I thought it was perfect. A wireless screen, perhaps?

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Jul 4, 2004, 07:04 AM
 
I totally disagree, it will be a G5.

There is no reason for a case design otherwise, it would not be enough to start up sales again.

It has to be a leap forward like the G3 - G4 redesign.
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Jul 4, 2004, 03:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Evan_11:

Other specs of note:
bluetooth keyboard and mouse
You wish, but right now, I don't think so.
So far, it's not possible to set up a OS X without a corded keyboard / mouse.

They'd had to do some real clever engineering on that...

-t
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
Turn on the spelling checker dude, it's "commen" sense.

Why redesign if you weren't going to go to single G5s? Doesn't make any sense to release G4s in a new form (and it has to be a new form at least, otherwise they'd just announce new specs) with G5s all but certain in the next year.

It makes perfect sense. Keep the towers at duellies and the iMac at single G5s (upgrading the Mac line just as the recent changes which brought everything to G4.

I would think it'll stay white. Silver for the Power line, white for the i/e line.

No sense having a handle. Just make it an iBook in that case.

Now, I can see it being with a wireless keyboard/combo.
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Jul 4, 2004, 06:19 PM
 
Originally posted by turtle777:
You wish, but right now, I don't think so.
So far, it's not possible to set up a OS X without a corded keyboard / mouse.

They'd had to do some real clever engineering on that...

-t
It must be possible, because Apple offers G5 with bluetooth mouse and keyboard as BTO option.
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 06:57 PM
 
No it isn't possible, when you get a BT keyboard and mouse you still have to use the USB keyboard and mouse to set up the computer.

More to the point, putting anything but a G5 in the iMac would be silly. The G4 is reaching the top end of its scalability at its current manufacturing process and Motorola isn't likely to shrink the die size down much more. The G4 isn't likely to scale much higher than 1.5GHz. The G5 on the other hand stated off life in the PowerMacs at 1.6GHz.

The new G5 (PowerPC 970FX) consumes far less power than its predecessor at higher clock rates. At 2GHz the 970FX only consumes about 24.5W where the 970 consumed 50W at only 1.8GHz. It would not be difficult to put a G5 in a small enclosure and keep the system well ventilated. What is more difficult is getting a large number of G5 chips to put in the iMacs.
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 07:50 PM
 
No, I can't believe that you need a USB keyboard to set up the BT. If you notice, you can now order a BTO mac with ONLY a BT keyboard and mouse instead of a USB keyboard and mouse. Apple wouldn't sell it that way if you had to have the USB to set up the computer. No way.
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 08:05 PM
 
If the new iMac is a single G5 at around 1.6 to 1.8 GHz with semi-decent video card in a small footprint, I'll buy one immediately to replace my aging but heavily hacked G4 733 MHz DA. If it remains a G4, I'll go with a Sonnet/PowerLogix/Giga dualie G4 1.4 GHz upgrade to get a little more mileage out of this old DA machine and then spring for a G5 PowerBook when it appears in 2005.
Although the G5 desktop is beautifully engineered and 'snappy', yada, yada, I don't want something the size of a small Samsonite suitcase sitting on or under my desk (however quiet the multiple fans are), which is why my G4 is housed in a custom case with half the volume of the original G4 and no hairdryer fan noise problems--only the mainboard and CPU daughterboard are original!
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 10:33 PM
 
Originally posted by tae667:
It must be possible, because Apple offers G5 with bluetooth mouse and keyboard as BTO option.
I talked to Apple just a few weeks ago.
They told me IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

If you buy BT BTO, the you are getting everything double: 2 mice, 2 keyboards, one with BT, one with cords.

Maybe you noticed that the BT BTO costs the same as if you'd buy the BT mouse/kb separately. Well, if you do that, you're wasting money on a corded mouse and keyboard.

-t
     
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Jul 4, 2004, 10:37 PM
 
Originally posted by jnrjr79:
No, I can't believe that you need a USB keyboard to set up the BT. If you notice, you can now order a BTO mac with ONLY a BT keyboard and mouse instead of a USB keyboard and mouse. Apple wouldn't sell it that way if you had to have the USB to set up the computer. No way.
But I have to admit, when buying a G5 in the Apple Store, it looks like it was possible to substitute the corded for BT.

Well, in that case, Apple Support doesn't seem to know what they are doing.
They told me on the phone IT'S NOT possible.

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Jul 5, 2004, 02:58 AM
 
I know the difference between a G4 and a G5, but having never used a G5, I was wondering how it compares to the G4 in performance. What does the different chip do exactly?
     
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Jul 5, 2004, 03:04 PM
 
There are a few important improvements in the G5 when it comes to performance:

1. much more floating-point math performance (this is the sort of math that gets used by 3D games, visual editors like Photoshop, and so on).

2. much more bandwidth: even a 1.6 GHz G5 has almost 5 times the processor bus bandwidth of the fastest G4. Anything involving large amounts of traffic between the CPU and memory (or even just other peripherals) will really benefit.

3. massively parallel pipelining. This is one of those techie bits of trivia, but in theory a G5 can handle up to 215 in-flight (i.e. in the process of being completed) instructions at once. You won't see this pay off unless an app is heavily G5-optimized though.

And for the record, I'm with the majority of the others here: there's no way Apple would have an "all-new iMac line" (their words) in September that just used a speed-bumped G4. The G5 can run coolly enough, it's inexpensive enough, and it would be a great way to make 2004 worth remembering for the Mac's 20th anniversary: in 1984, Apple announced the first 16-bit computer for the rest of us; in 2004, they announce the first 64-bit computer for the rest of us.
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Jul 5, 2004, 07:23 PM
 
OK, enough posts about BT.

Does anyone have any theories about what the new iMac G5 could look like?

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Jul 5, 2004, 08:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Eriamjh:
OK, enough posts about BT.

Does anyone have any theories about what the new iMac G5 could look like?
Wild idea here, but I think the design quite possibly might be something radically different than the current iMac. Im thinking it will resemble the new displays, and will be without a pod-- just a slightly thicker than the new display, all-in-one unit.

Kinda like this sony thing, except way cooler.
     
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Jul 5, 2004, 09:22 PM
 
The Sony computer isn't bad, but I don't think Apple wants to do that - like many fashion designers would say, "it's been done." My suspicions (which could be entirely incorrect) are that it's either the same basic form but with many different styling cues, or else some headless/detachable design.
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Jul 5, 2004, 10:31 PM
 
Originally posted by greenamp:

Kinda like this sony thing, except way cooler.
IMHO, it's ugly.

It's wanna-be good design.
No style.

-t
     
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Jul 5, 2004, 11:10 PM
 
I agree the sony is a dull. I was just using that as an example of an all-in-one lcd design.
     
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Jul 5, 2004, 11:32 PM
 
Gateway has used that design type in the past as well. I don't know that Apple would want to emulate that due to heat issues. The new G5s run fairly cool but it might not be the best idea to stick one behind an LCD with a graphics chip, hard drive, and every other heat producing component. I think they might stick with a design that separates the main components from the LCD for heat reasons and it is easier to make the screen movable.
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 12:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
Why redesign if you weren't going to go to single G5s? Doesn't make any sense to release G4s in a new form (and it has to be a new form at least, otherwise they'd just announce new specs) with G5s all but certain in the next year.
they redesigned without adding g4s with the g3 power macintoshes and g3 ibooks.
( Last edited by storer; Jul 6, 2004 at 12:30 AM. )
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 02:39 AM
 
I think the new iMac will be very similar to the current one but as with the first iMac( bondi Blue to match the B&W G3) it will be in aluminium/silver . This makes sense because the screens will match the current G5 and it seems ( to me at least) that the current iMac set up will be hard to improve on. You can't improve on perfection.
( Last edited by DomDom; Jul 6, 2004 at 07:13 PM. )
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 02:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Commodus:
The Sony computer isn't bad, but I don't think Apple wants to do that - like many fashion designers would say, "it's been done." My suspicions (which could be entirely incorrect) are that it's either the same basic form but with many different styling cues, or else some headless/detachable design.

If Apple went with a "headless/detachable" design then it would end up being more like having a G4 Cube like design and a display. At that point then it's not an All-in-one which is what the original Macintosh has been since the begining followed by the iMac.
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Jul 6, 2004, 01:25 PM
 
If Apple went with a "headless/detachable" design then it would end up being more like having a G4 Cube like design and a display. At that point then it's not an All-in-one which is what the original Macintosh has been since the begining followed by the iMac.
I see the point, which is why I suspect that it may just be a reworking of the basic iMac G4 design, but I'm not ruling out something that either bridges the gap or shifts to a headless design altogether.

Remember that when the iMac came out, in 1998, market conditions were very different. There were no cheap $500 Dell boxes to compete against, and laptops were too clunky and slow to be desktop replacements. The only realistic option for a standalone display was a CRT. An all-in-one iMac made sense then because it saved space, looked cool, and had a negligible price difference.

Today, laptops are the new all-in-one systems: in some cases, you might literally only have to plug in the power cable before your first boot. They take up relatively little space (even with a 17" PowerBook) and often match the features of desktops. If you get a desktop, you're often looking for flexibility and added performance.
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Jul 6, 2004, 03:12 PM
 
What about a new "folding" LCD display? One central display, with two hinged displays on either side

Now that would be different
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 04:17 PM
 
How about a hover display involving the implimentation of magnets?

If they do go with the G5 I suspect they'll keep the same design. I love the G4 design but I don't think you'll see any boost in sales by installing a G5. More than likely it will take away sales from the low end Powermac instead of attracting new buyers.
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 04:23 PM
 
That's why Apple needs to address more than just the cpu...
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Evan_11:
How about a hover display involving the implimentation of magnets?
Gosh, why didn't I think of that
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 04:34 PM
 
Originally posted by spreadlight:
What about a new "folding" LCD display? One central display, with two hinged displays on either side

Now that would be different
That would be cool. The two side displays could be used for apps like Preview, Mail and Safari as well as bins in Final Cut and toolbars for Photoshop. We mustn't also forget the Dock. I'd love to have a screen that acted solely as a canvas without any toolbars, icons to distract.
     
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Jul 6, 2004, 04:47 PM
 
Eventually I think we'll see the iMac evolve into a tablet like device. A self contained unit that will be very appliance like. Completely wireless, all in one, with no-hinges or external mechanical devices. In fact I could see the only internal mechanical device being the hard drive. Like an iPod on steroids. If I were working for Apple I'd argue for a slot loading optical drive but it would go against Steve's vision for the device. It would have a dock for plugging in your usb and firewire devices.
     
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Jul 8, 2004, 09:23 PM
 
I saw one of those sony all-in-one pc's yesterday at compusa and they look much better in person. It's actually a pretty sharp little machine. The lcd display is one of the crispest I've ever seen, and it's got av and cable in so you can use it as an entertainment center.

It really ain't too shabby for a pee-see
     
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Jul 8, 2004, 11:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Evan_11:
How about a hover display involving the implimentation of magnets?
Bender knows what magnets do.
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 11:34 AM
 
How about DVI output - for a second screen as in PBooks... then they wouldn't have to sell a gigantic *attached* screen (with its bulkiness issues), but would allow expandability?
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Jul 9, 2004, 07:09 PM
 
Go to the AppleStore and look at the "Big ideas need a big canvas" picture. You are looking at the yet-to-be-released iMac.
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 07:17 PM
 
All this talk of iMac redesigns brought back memories of one of the "best" designed AIO's to come out of Apple Design Studios:



See here for more. Those were the days!

     
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Jul 9, 2004, 07:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Paul Huang:
Go to the AppleStore and look at the "Big ideas need a big canvas" picture. You are looking at the yet-to-be-released iMac.
You mean the pictures of the new CInema Displays?
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 08:11 PM
 
according to http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...9932_tc056.htm
key things to highlight.
Apple charges too much for its computers. The PC market's benchmark price level is sinking quickly below the $1,000 mark -- turf where Apple has been loath to tread. Even laptops are moving down into a similar range.
Yet, Apple's list price for iMacs started at $1,300 before production was halted. And the iBook remains listed at $1,100 on Apple's Web site. First Albany Capital analyst Joel Wagonfeld says taking into consideration discounts by resellers, the average price of an iMac in the first quarter was $1,161, with PowerBooks at $2,140 and iBooks at $1,109. Sure, Apple flogs low-grade eMacs to schools at bargain-basement prices -- but they have big, fat CRT monitors. Ugh.
You've been to Target (TGT ), right? You probably seen the terrific product designs such as well-known architect Michael Graves' line of stylish housewares -- offered a budget prices. Heck, Blue Light Specials at Kmart (KMRT ) haven't been the same since Martha Stewart's line of kitchen gear, sheets, and towels hit the aisles several years ago. Dumpster-diving debutantes can't get enough of them. Even sportswear designer Mossimo makes great threads for fiscal lightweights.

We're in the era of cheap chic, Steve. And I have no doubt that Apple can play that game with the best of them. Give us a really cheap, really cool PC, and watch them fly off the shelves.
The iMac concept was inspiring, but consumer interest in computers with integrated monitors has never really taken off. Offer a headless Mac at a decent price with all your nifty iLife software installed, and the masses will at least give you a closer look.

Sometimes it's good to take a page out of a competitor's playbook. Dell (DELL ) had an interesting marketing ploy with its offer to pay a $100 bounty for any iPod brought in by a customer buying Dell's own digital music player, the DJ. Steve, you can top that. Offer a $200 bounty on a PC exchanged for a new iMac or iBook. Buyers get the $200 discount only if they bring a PC that's two years old or less. And they must have a valid receipt.

I think all they need is a very cheep mac under 700 bucks no monitor and keep it moderatly fast and make it so you can only use the apple monitors or certain monitors.
I know when the online site in japan accidently made the imac/emac price really cheep under 500 bucks over 1000 people had placed a order with in 10 min. Just think they make the imac slightly better better ram and a better hd and drop the price 100 bucks and lower the emac price or something.
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 08:26 PM
 
When things are really inexpensive and people are buying, it does not mean people are buying because they want to use it. They may re-sell it.

Most people won't buy a Mac because software is harder to come by. Why buy a Mac when you can buy a PC and install all the software you want--from borrowed installation CDs?

Follow the Dell path would be death. Many Dell customers are repeat customers, because their WindowsXP is so polluted and they don't know what to do with it, so they buy another one. Yes, the price is the driving factor, not desirability.

In a school environment, the four-year-old iMacs get a new lease on life as soon as you replace the slow 10GB/20GB hard drive with a 120 GB/7,200RPM/8MB cache drive double the RAM to 256, and install OS 10.3.4. I am not saying that the PCs wouldn't receive the same benefit. It's just that the cost is exorbitant. With 10.3.4, the maximum cost is $75 per seat. With Windows, you might as well buy a new system. The three-year-old Dells have aged so much--none of the students want to tough them.

Where do the Dells go, eventually? Landfill. What do the iMacs do? They continue to work. Dell is just not an environmentally-sound solution.
---------

I think all they need is a very cheep mac under 700 bucks no monitor and keep it moderatly fast and make it so you can only use the apple monitors or certain monitors.
I know when the online site in japan accidently made the imac/emac price really cheep under 500 bucks over 1000 people had placed a order with in 10 min. Just think they make the imac slightly better better ram and a better hd and drop the price 100 bucks and lower the emac price or something.
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 08:31 PM
 
By the way, the computer was advertised just 10% (or even less; some ridiculous number) of the retail price.

Originally posted by yoyoman:
I know when the online site in japan accidently made the imac/emac price really cheep under 500 bucks over 1000 people had placed a order with in 10 min. Just think they make the imac slightly better better ram and a better hd and drop the price 100 bucks and lower the emac price or something. [/B]
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Jul 9, 2004, 08:33 PM
 
Originally posted by Paul Huang:
Go to the AppleStore and look at the "Big ideas need a big canvas" picture. You are looking at the yet-to-be-released iMac.
Precisely. The iMac will closely resemble the new Cinema Displays. I think we WILL see a cordless mouse and keyboard (and BT) as >pre-configured< standard equipment, with a vertically slot-loading Superdrive on the upper right edge of the display - well above the power button. The iMac will be as thick if not slightly thicker than the new Cinema Displays, with all the computers innards, perhaps except the power supply, behind the 20" LCD display. As always, minimalism will be key to the design.

A plus would be a user upgradable graphics card. A super plus would be the ability to detach the screen from its base to use it as a tablet computer on one's lap. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself...

Irregardless, the new iMac wil undoubtedly have a single 1.8 GHz or 2.0 GHz G5 - since its delay is most probably because of supply and cooling issues.

-chump
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 08:49 PM
 
Sounds like you didn't sign the NDA.

The wireless mouse and keyboard sure have been a problem. They just don't last long enough, even if you use the original Energizer Titanium batteries. I first thought, wow, first class all the way. Later I discovered that the Energizer Titanium batteries are the only batteries that should be used with Apple's wireless accessories.

Originally posted by chump:
Precisely. The iMac will closely resemble the new Cinema Displays. I think we WILL see a cordless mouse and keyboard (and BT) as >pre-configured< standard equipment, with a vertically slot-loading Superdrive on the upper right edge of the display - well above the power button. The iMac will be as thick if not slightly thicker than the new Cinema Displays, with all the computers innards, perhaps except the power supply, behind the 20" LCD display. As always, minimalism will be key to the design.
     
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Jul 9, 2004, 09:28 PM
 
i'm hoping that maybe if i repeat this enough that there might be a chance that i'll come true.

i think the new iMac should have a removable, wireless, touch-screen monitor.

it becomes the remote for airport express.

add a tv tuner and bundle a new iApp with tivo/eyetv-like functionality and you've got a flat screen hdtv that moves around the house with you.

an iMac like that becomes a real appliance and would put those hideous media center PCs to shame.

i think the iMac needs to do something revolutionary to fill it's place as the digital-hub.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nashville
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Jul 10, 2004, 12:41 AM
 
Originally posted by mattyd:
i'm hoping that maybe if i repeat this enough that there might be a chance that i'll come true.

i think the new iMac should have a removable, wireless, touch-screen monitor.

it becomes the remote for airport express.

add a tv tuner and bundle a new iApp with tivo/eyetv-like functionality and you've got a flat screen hdtv that moves around the house with you.

an iMac like that becomes a real appliance and would put those hideous media center PCs to shame.

i think the iMac needs to do something revolutionary to fill it's place as the digital-hub.
I agree. That would be a great next step.
     
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Jul 10, 2004, 01:26 AM
 
Wow. It just struck me. A computer with only a power cord. Stick a handle on it and suddenly it is quite portable around the house. I love laptops but require more ergonomically located screen and input devices. With a removable screen, even the current iMac design would cease to seem computer like. Just a hemisphere you plug in like a toaster.

I've always been anti-wireless mouse. However, with bluetooth and wifi, all-in-ones like the iMac are even more appealing. The simplicity of putting it anywhere is amazing.
     
 
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