[Mac Hammer Fan]

I am planning to buy a Mac for some video editing. Basically conversion from tapes and TV programs (movies) to DVD with firewire and IMovie and Toast.
Perhaps with a Miglia DVR PCI card compatible with G4 and G5.
Or am I wrong about the picture quality of this card?
And perhaps some sound editing and word processing.
Which Mac has the best price/quality ratio?

The advantages of the G4 are OS9 bootable, more space for hard drives and optical drives, faster results with I Tunes but I assume it will be slower for video conversion.

The G5 dual 1.8 would have been more attractive with PCI-X slots.
When I compare those Macs with the same configuration, the new G5 Dual 2.5 has the best MHz/$ ratio. However, it costs a lot of money.
Personally, I was thinking about the G5 1.8 anyway, because I doubt that I will need the PCI-X technology in the near future. But then I have read that the this G5 1.8 has a slower logic board. Does this only refer to the lack of PCI slots or will this Mac be significant slower when I convert DV files to mp4?
And what I was worried about is the benchmarks of the new G5s posted at www.xbench.com . Perhaps it has to do something with the Energy saver setting, but the CPU benchtest of a G5 2x1.8 and even 2x2.0 is sometimes slower than the G4 Dual 1.25...
Or are the new CPUs of the 2nd generation really slower?

TIA

[CatOne]

Originally posted by Mac Hammer Fan:
I am planning to buy a Mac for some video editing. Basically conversion from tapes and TV programs (movies) to DVD with firewire and IMovie and Toast.
Perhaps with a Miglia DVR PCI card compatible with G4 and G5.
Or am I wrong about the picture quality of this card?
And perhaps some sound editing and word processing.
Which Mac has the best price/quality ratio?

The advantages of the G4 are OS9 bootable, more space for hard drives and optical drives, faster results with I Tunes but I assume it will be slower for video conversion.

The G5 dual 1.8 would have been more attractive with PCI-X slots.
When I compare those Macs with the same configuration, the new G5 Dual 2.5 has the best MHz/$ ratio. However, it costs a lot of money.
Personally, I was thinking about the G5 1.8 anyway, because I doubt that I will need the PCI-X technology in the near future. But then I have read that the this G5 1.8 has a slower logic board. Does this only refer to the lack of PCI slots or will this Mac be significant slower when I convert DV files to mp4?
And what I was worried about is the benchmarks of the new G5s posted at www.xbench.com . Perhaps it has to do something with the Energy saver setting, but the CPU benchtest of a G5 2x1.8 and even 2x2.0 is sometimes slower than the G4 Dual 1.25...
Or are the new CPUs of the 2nd generation really slower?

TIA

The dual 1.8 has a slower logic board than the dual 2.5 because the CPUs run at exactly double the bus speed. The dual 2.5 requires a 1.25 GHz bus, and the dual 1.8 requires a 900 MHz bus. It's not going to slow the machine down "any more..." the ratio will be pretty much the same... 25/18 for CPU intensive operations.

For a "mixed basket" of operations, the performance gap won't be as large, because they use the same hard drives, for example.

Personally, I'm going to get a dual 2.5 with the 6800 Ultra. No 30" display for me now, but I'd like to have the option in the future. Plus, the 6800 is about 2.5x as fast as the 9800 Pro, so for an extra $150 it's a no brainer

[Commodus]

My inclination would be to either get the dual 1.8, or else the dual 2.5. The G4 is simply going to be obsolete too soon, and the G5 still commands the overall lead. Don't rely too much on those Xbench scores, as the test isn't always reliable and doesn't tell the whole story.

The dual 1.8 is probably the best "value" system of the bunch, as it will still do video editing and file conversion at a good clip. You probably wouldn't see much tangible gain by going to the 2.0 unless you simply refused to add any extra RAM.

If performance is the biggest concern, then step right up to the dual 2.5 - it's a big jump over the 2.0 and the best value for money if you're using something very CPU-dependent.

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I checked the Graphics test at www.xbench.com and the Geoforce 5200 is faster than the Radeon 9600...
But the latter has 128 MB RAM, twice as much as the Geoforce.
Strange...

[Commodus]

The GeForce FX 5200 is most definitely not faster than the Radeon 9600. Just ask any gamer or computer hardware review site.

As it stands, video performance isn't the main issue here, unless multiple displays or 3D-heavy apps are a concern.

[ReggieX]

G5 Dual 2.00 2nd generation, and spend the other money on RAM and hard drives.

[Maflynn]

You left off some configurations but all in all here's my $.02.

If you can get your hands on a rev A. 2.0 they have a better video card and the price might be cheaper then the the rev b. flavor.

The same goes with the rev a. 1.8.

As for PCI-X unless you really forsee a need for it, I personally don't think that would be a deciding factor.

Bottom line if you can get the 2.0 rev a. for less go for that, otherwise the 2.0 rev b. is the best buy imo.

Good luck the G5's are an awesome machine.
Mike

[Mac Hammer Fan]

It seems that the majority of you can agree that any new G5 is a better buy than the Dual G4 1.25. And even without this PCI-X, the G5 Dual 1.80 is a better value for money than the last OS9 bootable Mac.
Which hard disk repair utility would you recommend instead of Norton Utilities?

[BZ]

A good rule: Get the most you can possibly afford.

BZ

[SafariX]

Dual 1.8 is the way to go....

[Loco Engr]

So, does anyone know for sure whether the second generation 1.8 and 2.0 GHz Dual G5 towers use: (1) the original 130 nm 970, or (2) the new 90 nm 970FX? I haven't seen any resolution of this controversy.

[Commodus]

Originally posted by Mac Hammer Fan:
It seems that the majority of you can agree that any new G5 is a better buy than the Dual G4 1.25. And even without this PCI-X, the G5 Dual 1.80 is a better value for money than the last OS9 bootable Mac.
Which hard disk repair utility would you recommend instead of Norton Utilities?

Whenever I hear people talking about a disk utility, DiskWarrior seems to be one of the most frequent recommendations.

[Commodus]

Originally posted by Loco Engr:
So, does anyone know for sure whether the second generation 1.8 and 2.0 GHz Dual G5 towers use: (1) the original 130 nm 970, or (2) the new 90 nm 970FX? I haven't seen any resolution of this controversy.

My understanding is that the dual 1.8 and dual 2.0 models use the 130 nm G5, while only the 2.5 GHz system uses the 90 nm version. The two chips are pin-compatible though; in theory, Apple could put a 90 nm version in if the OS and cooling system could handle it.

[The"than"Police]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
If you can get your hands on a rev A. 2.0 they have a better video card and the price might be cheaper then the the rev b. flavor.

Than & the "The The" Police are on your tail

[Link]

What powermac tower would I buy? (Right now? -- at it's price?.. and in my situation?)

None.

Why? While my g4 is nearing 3 years old, it still fufills it's purpose very well, if anything needing some more ram and a new video card..

[Mac Hammer Fan]

My friend bought a PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 in april.
His computer suffers from random freezes. He uses Audio Logic Pro and Finale 2004b and had updated Panther to the last system updates 10.3.4. There is audio equipment connected to a firewire Port.
We did the Apple hardware test and checked with Techtool Pro and we found nothing wrong with the G5. (160 GB ATA hard disk-Pioneer 106D and 1 GB RAM)
The DVD-drive is noisy. Otherwise, the computer is silent. We have set the processor speed to Automatic and to Maximum but there was no difference in stability.
Do some of the 2nd generation PowerMacs G5 also have freezing problems?

[Graymalkin]

I voted for the 2.5GHz PowerMac but I think realistically your best bet right now would be a 1.8GHz PM and then load it out with memory and an external drive array. If possible you might want to look into an overstock or refurbished Rev B 1.8Ghz (the previous generation) in order to put a lot of extra money into RAM and a disk array. The previous generation 1.8GHz PM came equipped with PCI-X and 8 RAM slots. The newest ones only have four slots and PCI. The previous generation PMs will probably go for about the price of the new ones yet be a bit more capable.

Instead of shoving a ton of disks inside of a tower buy yourself an external Firewire RAID array. Several vendors sell them (Roc, Medéa, LaCie) and they aren't horribly priced. A drive array is going to get you higher throughput than a single large drive will even though you'll pay a bit more per GB. Video work is well served by fast disk access.

[chris v]

Originally posted by The"than"Police:
Than & the "The The" Police are on your tail

UR my new hero.

Are you also a member of The Apostrophe Patrol?

CV

[Mac Hammer Fan]

For me, it's difficult to choose between a G5 Dual 1.8 and G5 Dual 2.0.
The lack of PCI-X slots is not a problem, i.m.o.
And I doubt I will need more than 2 GB RAM in the future.
But perhaps, 3 years later, I will have a different opinion....
Anyway, I am already convinced that the G5 Dual 1.8 is a much better machine than the G4 DuaL 1.25....

[mac freak]

rev. A dual 1.8

[Eugene Fields]

Originally posted by Loco Engr:
So, does anyone know for sure whether the second generation 1.8 and 2.0 GHz Dual G5 towers use: (1) the original 130 nm 970, or (2) the new 90 nm 970FX? I haven't seen any resolution of this controversy.

I own one of the New RevB 2.Ghz, It has the New 90nm Chips!! All the June Machines do! They are identicle size but the new ones have the new HeatSink Covers that are one piece. And they are WAY quiet compared to the RevA. I had Both I know. The new machine is Way more refined manors than the RevA.

Just my obervations

[rotuts]

Hello

I ahve the Miglia ( AlchemyTV DVR ) card in my G4 Dual.

it is fantastic, but a little quirky, which you soon learn how to get around. I use the earlier version of the software (v1....) as it has a better "scheduled recordings" interface (like an excel spreadsheet) I record about 12 cooking shows a day a hobby of mine.

I plan to move the card to a G5 sometime late fall early jan next yearm when the current top of the line moves into the middle slot.

Ive had macs since the first one. my current philososy is to really wait until you REALLY need the processing power, and then get the middle version. I think it has the best cost/performance. tthe top one is over priced for the difference, I feel. better to spend that money in more RAM ( crucial I buy) or a second large HD.

also in waiting, the new dual layer DVR will be stabilized, and you can put one of those in. the media is now $10, way to high. GOOD DVD-R's about about 50 to 60 cents/ if you are carefull

if video is going to be your interest, adn it is mine now, you
****MUST***** become aware of the DVD help forum here:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9.

Good luck. how about those new monitors? I saw the 23" in apple Palo Alto and its a hit. the "30 are not there yet.

but you can get TWO 23" for the price of the "30 ( avout) and thats probably the way I will go in the fall.

hope this helps. if you have more QQ'ss answer here and Ill look them over.

but the Miglia DVR is GREAT

NB the G5 will play true HDTV with the new eyeTV 500 but have not seen it. $300 more and your G5 will be an HDTV!!!!

rotut

[codec3]

Hi
Since you are going to be basically dubbing to a DVD may I suggest a real-time DVD burner?
I have a Panasonic DMR-HS2 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-6473_7-...ml?legacy=cnet) with a 40 gig HD to store video on, but it can also record real-time. After the program is recorded it take 10-15 minutes to finalize the disc.

In addition it has VCR+ and some other nifty options, card reader, firewire input etc. I got mine over a year ago and it was $999, but has since dropped to around $600.

The other option I would mention is to get a Sony Media Convertor. I have a DV MC DA2 box (http://dv411.com/sondvmcda2dv.html) , it's about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and converts a composite and s-video signal to DV codec on the fly. I have it hooked to my cable, and when something comes on TV, I pop open iMovie and digitize there. I use it mainly to put stuff onto CDs for trips on the plane. Of course, with this option you will still have to re-encode for DVD, but it is a faily cheap and transportable solution ($399) and I use it on my PowerBook as well.

Otherwise, find the DVD encoding benchmarks for Macs and compare there, encoding is where you'll be spending your time, which I why I mentioned the real-time burner. It may seem pricey, but it is simple and fast.
hth
codec3

[rotuts]

Hi again

Codec3's info is very intersting.

I initially made DVD from my AlchemyDVR output, but after much trial and error I now only make QT movies.

the AlchemyDVR maked a QT movie in Sorensen3 that is about 1.5 GB / 30 minutes at the "best" video settings for this compression.

Ive found that I can then convert this ( 640 x 480) to an MP4 at 320 x 240 and then get a file that is about 200MB for 30 minutes of TV.

this file is fine for most viewing and archiving right on my computer. I got some Hitachi 250GB drives on sale at Fry's for $90 / drive ( they seem to periodically have this sale) and now can store all the TV Im saving ( in my case various cooking shows) and can fit 25 shows / DVD-R if I want to pass them around.

the Alchemy is about $120 or so and the DVD-r about 50 to 60 cents now.

there is a "batch" utility that does the second transformation in "bulk" after I delet all the comercials with QuickTime Pro.

on the G4 dual it takes 15 minutes to do the second compression, but I do them "in bulk" at night.

with the G4 dual, the only conflict for CPU horsepower comes if I try to encode a DVD from an iMovie file at the same time the alchemy software is compressing a TV show.

Alchemy's support by email ( from England) has been excellent. Im hoping that by the time I get the new G5, the will have a HDTV card rather than a firewire "box" that ElGato has with the eyeTV500, as Id like to end desktop clutter if possible.

HDTV on your ***new*** flat panel! but I probably won't have mine intime for the NFL.

rotuts

[MrForgetable]

I've looked everywhere, and the Rev. A Dual 1.8s are still a couple hundred dollars more than the Rev. B Dual 1.8s

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I am afraid of buying a G5 Dual 1.8 rev A or B.
The reason is because my friend has one of this machines and it suffers from random crashes. Apple Hardware test and Techtool Pro didn't find anything wrong. We even brought the machine back to the shop and there it was checked too. My friend paid 30 EUR but the problem wasn't solved. He was told that too many files on the desktop caused the crashes. Can you believe that? After re-installation of the system software and all the updates through the internet, the problem wasn't gone.
The computer freezes when a window is moved in the finder, unless the monitor is set to 256 colors. We can still move the mouse, but the G5 doesnt react anymore...
The problem seems to be related to the video-card (a Geforce 5200) or to its drivers since I assume that the card isn't accelerated in 256 colors.
We are desperate...
Do these problems also occur on a G5 2GHz?
TIA

[chris v]

Originally posted by Mac Hammer Fan:
I am afraid of buying a G5 Dual 1.8 rev A or B.
The reason is because my friend has one of this machines and it suffers from random crashes. Apple Hardware test and Techtool Pro didn't find anything wrong. We even brought the machine back to the shop and there it was checked too. My friend paid 30 EUR but the problem wasn't solved. He was told that too many files on the desktop caused the crashes. Can you believe that? After re-installation of the system software and all the updates through the internet, the problem wasn't gone.
The computer freezes when a window is moved in the finder, unless the monitor is set to 256 colors. We can still move the mouse, but the G5 doesnt react anymore...
The problem seems to be related to the video-card (a Geforce 5200) or to its drivers since I assume that the card isn't accelerated in 256 colors.
We are desperate...
Do these problems also occur on a G5 2GHz?
TIA

This is more than obviously a hardware problem. Is this machine still under warranty? Apple should fix that for him, if so. If not, he should replace the video card, it sounds like.



On topic, I just bought a Rev A Dual 2.0 off the refurb. page for $1999.00 and I couldn't be happier. Ordered on Friday 23rd, I got it Monday the 26th. This thing eats Photoshop and Logic for lunch. I saved 500 clams, with the only difference being 4x instead of 8x on the Superdrive, and the Radeon 9600 instead of the GeForce 5200. The thing has been utterly stable since the second boot. (Had no menubar items the first time I booted) Totally rock solid. I added 1 GB of RAM on Wed. afternoon, and that speeded things up even more.

This machine replaces a Cube 450 at home, so you can well imagine the difference I'm experiencing, even though it does take up a tad more space. (to say the least) Ask me if I care, though. I'm a happy camper.

CV

[Guyuteandme]

Originally posted by Mac Hammer Fan:
It seems that the majority of you can agree that any new G5 is a better buy than the Dual G4 1.25. And even without this PCI-X, the G5 Dual 1.80 is a better value for money than the last OS9 bootable Mac.
Which hard disk repair utility would you recommend instead of Norton Utilities?

Get Diskwarrior. It forced Norton's to stop production for macs.