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Rev-O · Jul 24, 2004, 07:26 PM

Hoping for some wisdom from the sages here...

I have a rev. A G5 dual 2 GHz + a 23" hdcd running 10.3.4 with 1.5 gigs o' ram and a Radeon 9600 Pro PowerMac Special Edition with 64 mb vram (yah, I was cheap and went with the stock video card).

My issue: anytime I run games that use 3D modeling, I am getting spots on the screen. Examples: when running Harry Potter and the sorceror's stone (hey, it's for my daughter!) I get a regular pattern of clear dots across the game screen. Meaning that if Harry's robes are black, he has a pattern of invisible spots (no more than a few pixels square) across him that show the background, and the spots across the background are black. Riddle of the Sphinx 2 the Omega Stone has a similar display issue, but the regular pattern of dots are blue. Neverwinter Nights has white dots on screen & jagged lines roughly outlining the polygons, as well as blue dots on the image that displays during loading and saving. None of these issues occur during cut sceens. None of these issues occur for 2D games (rRootage, EV Nova, iConquer, etc). The dots are present at any resolution. All games appear fine on my G4 iBook.

Cooked video card? Compatability issue? 64 mb not enough to 3D game on a 23" display? Cooked driver (which was not listed on ATI's driver page)?

How can I diagnose this little issue? And before y'all holler at me for getting a such a crappy video card in the first place, I am going to buy a 30" with the obligitory GeForce 6800 when they become available!

OzarkMtn · Jul 25, 2004, 04:27 PM

What is a Radeon 9600 Pro PowerMac Special Edition. If that is the stock card that came with the G5, that would be a Radeon 9600. The PRO Special Edition is associated with the 9800 only.

The Radeon 9600 is not a crappy card, it is actually a very good card. I would check to see if the card is seated properly to begin with. The drivers are supplied by Apple, not ATI. You failed to mention what type of monitor you have. Have you checked the cables? How old is it? Do you have unshielded speakers in close proximity to the monitor?

There might be a preference file that may have become corrupted.

Rev-O · Jul 25, 2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by OzarkMtn:
What is a Radeon 9600 Pro PowerMac Special Edition. If that is the stock card that came with the G5, that would be a Radeon 9600. The PRO Special Edition is associated with the 9800 only.

The Radeon 9600 is not a crappy card, it is actually a very good card. I would check to see if the card is seated properly to begin with. The drivers are supplied by Apple, not ATI. You failed to mention what type of monitor you have. Have you checked the cables? How old is it? Do you have unshielded speakers in close proximity to the monitor?

There might be a preference file that may have become corrupted.

Yah, the card is pretty good, but I'm a little cranky about NWN looking like crap!
The Radeon 9600 was the standard issue card in the rev.A G5 dual 2 GHz, which ATI (on their website) calls the Radeon 9600 Pro PowerMac Special edition. Guess they second thought the name and went for something more grand.

Monitor would be the 23" hdcd.

Will check the card for seating today, and the ADC cable, but can't imagine that this is the issue. The G5 hasn't moved in about 6 months! Will check Apple for the driver (Thanks for the info!), and may resort to a fresh OS install.

Thx
Kevin

bighead · Jul 25, 2004, 07:31 PM

Have you noticed any issues playing DVDs or around the edges of antialiased graphics in Quartz or around the startup spoke wheel at boot? Sometimes bad processors can cause issues in graphics rendering too, but it is generally a video card or driver issue. I've not seen much erratic video in G5s caused by processors, it was more common in Quicksilvers and sometimes in MDDs. If your clean system install doesn't fix it, I'd say either a video card or a processor is the problem (hopefully a video card. hehe)

Cadaver · Jul 25, 2004, 09:26 PM

Pixel anomalies in 3D applications can be an indication of the card overheating.
I'd contact Apple, describe the problem, and perhaps they will send out a replacement card (presuming you're still under warranty).

These artifacts are often seen in the PC world where people attempt to overclock their video cards.

Rev-O · Jul 25, 2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by bighead:
Have you noticed any issues playing DVDs or around the edges of antialiased graphics in Quartz or around the startup spoke wheel at boot? Sometimes bad processors can cause issues in graphics rendering too, but it is generally a video card or driver issue. I've not seen much erratic video in G5s caused by processors, it was more common in Quicksilvers and sometimes in MDDs. If your clean system install doesn't fix it, I'd say either a video card or a processor is the problem (hopefully a video card. hehe)

Dvd's play fine, OS X looks spiffy, just games blow. Cable is ok, card is seated good. I was unable to find any support for the 9600 from Apple's website, nor through ATI. Thought someone might have a driver intall kicking around so I could skip the reinstall plan.

Think I will contact Apple as per Cadaver's suggestion. See what they have they have to say. Still got a month on the original warranty, and Applecare to boot.

Thx
Kevin

reader50 · Jul 25, 2004, 10:54 PM

Run Software Update to see if any graphics updates are available, or download the 10.3.4 updater. Apple tends to release their graphics driver updates with the OS updates.

mac freak · Jul 26, 2004, 12:47 AM

from my overclocking experience in the PC universe, sounds like the memory on your video card is overheating... little flashing squares, no?

eyadams · 04:04 PM

[dup]

eyadams · Jul 26, 2004, 04:02 PM

I have the same card, and play the same game (and the sequel, which my son likes a little better.) I have NO problems like the ones described. The only difference here is I have a Rev A SP 1.8 - which I suppose runs cooler. I would definately talk to Apple about it.

roders · 07:27 PM

I second an overheating Video card, I reckon it's highly likely it's a faulty Vid card issue.

Rev-O · Jul 27, 2004, 09:04 PM

So far I've checked ATI's page for 9600 support (there is none), checked Apple's website for support (um, basically none), reinstalled 10.3.4 update (which has improved ATI drivers), ran tech tools, downloaded available game patches. No change. Screwed up 3D graphics.
Just got off the phone after a lengthy chat with Applecare. The woman who helped me was nice and cooperative and listened to my issues. We reset the pram, popped the vid card, ran Apple Hardware test, beheaded a chicken as a sacrifice, and painted a hex sign on the case. No change. Screwed up 3D graphics.
Applecare told me that there is a known problem with the 9600 and 3D graphics. Don't know what the known problem is, tho. Also got the "Oh, so it's 3rd party software..." line a bit. "Games can have conflicts that don't surface until later on in the game." Yes, this is true, but I seem to have it on all games. Applecare still worked with me on it, but seeing as how Apple doesn't put out much software that uses 3D junk off a video card, it seemed like a silly comment. Apple sells the card, Apple should support it.
Was told it may be the graphics card, or could be a logic board issue. Translates as "I dunno." which is fair, because there is only so much that can be determined over the phone. So now I have a case # to take my computer to the Apple store. We'll see what happen next, but I am getting extra crabby. Already starting to get the run around feeling.
Will keep y'all posted.

wulf · Jul 29, 2004, 06:05 AM

AppleCare can be like that, in my experience. They don't want to commit to any specific problem or solution over the phone, presumably in case it does turn out to be something else.

Take it in to the Store and take your game with you, make sure you reproduce the problem for them in the store (if you can). At least that way they'll have seen the problem you are describing and can reproduce it for testing, etc.

Rev-O · Jul 29, 2004, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by wulf:
AppleCare can be like that, in my experience. They don't want to commit to any specific problem or solution over the phone, presumably in case it does turn out to be something else.

Take it in to the Store and take your game with you, make sure you reproduce the problem for them in the store (if you can). At least that way they'll have seen the problem you are describing and can reproduce it for testing, etc.

Thanks. My one fear is the whole "Oh, we don't support 3rd party software" line that Apple has available. Graphics cards are typically for games, Apple sells no games, so does this mean Apple doesn't have to support issues with the video cards? Hope I don't get this line, as I am likely to get cranky. We shall see. I hope for the best!

reader50 · Jul 29, 2004, 11:28 AM

Minor points. While Apple does not make any games, they do sell a lot of them in their Stores and online Store. They also have a games section of their website, and they do supply the OpenGL 3D drivers for their OEM cards like the 9600.

Back-to-Mac · Jul 29, 2004, 01:34 PM

On a slight side note, what is the current top ten video cards for the PowerMac?

A recent review in MacUser said that the Radeon 9800 Pro is one of the fastest cards but how does it compare with the current offerings from Apple as a CTO option?

a2daj · Jul 29, 2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by reader50:
Minor points. While Apple does not make any games, they do sell a lot of them in their Stores and online Store. They also have a games section of their website, and they do supply the OpenGL 3D drivers for their OEM cards like the 9600.

Just a small clarification so others may not get confused. Apple supplies the drivers as in "they come with the OS." ATI does all the dev work on the ATI specific drivers. Apple then supports the OEM cards.

a2daj · Jul 29, 2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Back-to-Mac:
On a slight side note, what is the current top ten video cards for the PowerMac?

A recent review in MacUser said that the Radeon 9800 Pro is one of the fastest cards but how does it compare with the current offerings from Apple as a CTO option?

It's second only to the 9800 XT when comparing against currently shipping video cards. When the GeForce 6800 ships (end up August), that may end up being top dog.