[csimon2]

Now that they have moved from ADC to DVI on their LCDs, and since the new iMacs were announced, you can no longer buy an Apple ADC equipped monitor. When Apple introduced the new cinema displays a few months ago, the 17" ADC "old-style" LCD was still available for purchase for $699. When I was placing an order on Tuesday for two new G5s and Displays, I inquired about the 17", and the AppleStore rep told me they had been discontinued that day and she couldn't even pull up the old part number for it. A trip to the AppleStore online reveals no indications of a ADC monitor anywhere.

So, if you buy a G5, realize there won't be any monitor to natively use the ADC connection on your video card, unless you go with Formac. And being that I own a Formac 17" ADC, I would strongly urge anyone to stay away, if solely because they have to have the WORST customer support of any company I have EVER dealt with. You can purchase a $39 ADC to DVI adapter from the AppleStore and other places, but given that ADC is now a protocol Apple is no longer actively supporting, this SHOULD BE INCLUDED AT NO CHARGE! Anyway, if one were looking to use both video connections on their AGP card w/out or having to purchase adapters, you better buy soon, because ADC is soon to be a thing of the past. Why even keep it on the cards in the first place, couldn't ATi or nVidia just swap it out on the current models for two DVI connectors without much re-engineering?

[MindFad]

Sure it is—in the form of the new iMac.

It would be cool if Apple released a new 17" DVI monitor in the same style as the new aluminum ones. That would be sweet.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by csimon2:
Now that they have moved from ADC to DVI on their LCDs, and since the new iMacs were announced, you can no longer buy an Apple ADC equipped monitor. When Apple introduced the new cinema displays a few months ago, the 17" ADC "old-style" LCD was still available for purchase for $699. When I was placing an order on Tuesday for two new G5s and Displays, I inquired about the 17", and the AppleStore rep told me they had been discontinued that day and she couldn't even pull up the old part number for it. A trip to the AppleStore online reveals no indications of a ADC monitor anywhere.

So, if you buy a G5, realize there won't be any monitor to natively use the ADC connection on your video card, unless you go with Formac. And being that I own a Formac 17" ADC, I would strongly urge anyone to stay away, if solely because they have to have the WORST customer support of any company I have EVER dealt with. You can purchase a $39 ADC to DVI adapter from the AppleStore and other places, but given that ADC is now a protocol Apple is no longer actively supporting, this SHOULD BE INCLUDED AT NO CHARGE! Anyway, if one were looking to use both video connections on their AGP card w/out or having to purchase adapters, you better buy soon, because ADC is soon to be a thing of the past. Why even keep it on the cards in the first place, couldn't ATi or nVidia just swap it out on the current models for two DVI connectors without much re-engineering?

From apple.com:
And of course they come with two FireWire 400 ports, three PCI expansion slots, ADC connector, DVI connector, analog audio in, analog audio out, optical S/PDIF in, optical S/PDIF out, front headphone and speaker jack and built-in Gigabit Ethernet — all as standard equipment.

So.. no ADC monitors but adc video out?

[MindFad]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
So.. no ADC monitors but adc video out?

Well, there are tons of people who still have ADC monitors. You can always convert your ADC port out to VGA or DVI, of course.

[csimon2]

MindFad wrote:
You can always convert your ADC port out to VGA or DVI, of course.

Its less like you CAN convert, rather more like you HAVE to convert. I have no problem if Apple wants to get rid of ADC. It was an excellent interface (one cable for DVI, power, USB is great) that never caught on with other manufacturers sadly. In the long run, I think going with standard DVI connections will help out the board manufacturers to release mac and PC versions closer. Its not the new policy towards DVI that bothers me. Its the fact that Apple hasn't made the switch on their G5 hardware yet, and weren't the new G5s and monitors announced at the same time? If they are going to include a connection that is unusable (try finding a brand-new ADC monitor today; there are some, but supply is running very thin everywhere), then include a means to use it in-the-box. A simple bundling of the Belkin ADC to DVI adapter would please me (they could at least include it if you bought a Cinema Display, if not with a G5). But they rather charge $39 for it and drain every last penny possible from their consumers. Believe it or not, I don't usually complain about Apple policy regarding new standards and products. But, I just don't see where this particular instance is in any way defensible by Apple given they have killed it themselves. ADC=Apple Display Connector.

Also, Apple has totally left the sub $1000 monitor range because of this now. A 17" DVI Apple Display is sorely needed.

[MindFad]

Seeing as Apple was still selling an ADC monitor a week ago, why would they completely eliminate it from their cards? The cards have DVI ports anyway. And don't the G5s come with ADC-to-VGA converters? (Or is it DVI-to-VGA?)

I agree, though—we're in serious need of a new sup-$1K monitor. I would probably get a 17" DVI Apple monitor.

[csimon2]

MindFad wrote:

• Seeing as Apple was still selling an ADC monitor a week ago, why would they completely eliminate it from their cards?

Well, it has become obviously apparent now that there was no intention to keep the ADC monitors in the line-up once they switched back (yes, back; the original 15" Blue-and-white Apple LCDs had DVI) to DVI. For the rev. B PowerMac G5s, eliminating ADC from the graphics cards then would have been a good time, as they introduced the new displays as well. Even still, I think they should have eliminated ADC at that point, because of the four models they were selling a week ago, only one utilised ADC. The 17" ADC that was left could be reasoned to still be sold due to previous G4 and G5 owners who still had ADC. Hopefully, Apple won't be stupid enough to request ATi or nVidia to include ADC on any new model cards.

MindFad wrote:

• The cards have DVI ports anyway. And don't the G5s come with ADC-to-VGA converters? (Or is it DVI-to-VGA?)

Yes the cards already have a DVI port. But personally, someone like me who runs a DVI, a ADC, a VGA, and a TV (VGA and TV are from a Radeon 7500, the ADC and DVI is from GeForce4 Ti) monitors doesn't like having one of the ports no longer useful unless he has to buy an adapter. Before, you could buy an Apple ADC LCD and a third-party DVI LCD, and run both off the same card. Not so without the adapter now unless you want to spend +$600 on a 6800. The G5s do come with a DVI to VGA adapter. There is an ADC to VGA adapter for $19. (Which brings up another point: Why is the ADC to DVI more expensive than ADC to VGA? With VGA, it has to convert the signal to analog, with DVI, all it is doing is extracting the native digital signal.)

[sith33]

Couple things. First off, ADC and DVI (well, most DVI) both carry analog as well, so there isn't any signal conversion going on in those little adapters. Going analog ->DVI is much more expensive because you actually need an A/D to convert the signal.

One good reason to keep ADC for now is that it's MUCH cheaper to go from ADC->DVI than to go from DVI->ADC, because besides adapting the plug, you also need a power supply and usb inputs and all that jazz. ADC->DVI really does just need to change the plug a bit (and it drops the power, usb, etc).

[csimon2]

One good reason to keep ADC for now is that it's MUCH cheaper to go from ADC->DVI than to go from DVI->ADC

Agreed. But what's the point if there are no devices that can use it? If the only reason Apple is keeping ADC is for the legacy monitors out there, then that doesn't make much sense for them economically (ie. if one already has a 23" ADC, and can use it easily with their new G5, they are a little less likely to buy one of the new DVI 23" LCDs). Also, again, I wouldn't have a problem with Apple keeping the ADC forever if they want to, just include the freakin' adapter for free why-don't-they!?! Be it included with the monitor (more likely) or the Power Mac, they shouldn't charge for it if you are buying new today.

[MindFad]

But all devices can use it. In addition, the majority of Apple customer who have Apple monitors probably have an ADC monitor. It will probably be phased out, but not certainly immediately.

[csimon2]

Maybe I should restate it, because although I have posted it twice, it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

Why not just include the adapter for free if your current customers are going to have to purchase an adapter for full use, especially when you consider the cheapest option to go all apple with new product is currently $4497 (Dual 1.8G5 + 2 20" LCDs)?

Does the $39 make that much of a difference on system order like that? Is it a deal-breaker? No. That's not the point. The point is that when you buy two systems like this, the least they can do is include it for free. Otherwise it feels like price guaging.

[MindFad]

I agree, they should start including that adapter for free. Write Apple.

[kikkoman]

My advice for those who have ADC monitors is to purchase the DVI to ADC adapter while they are still available if you want to use your display on your next PowerMac. You'll thank me latter.

[MindFad]

I would, but I got screwed by Apple by getting this 17" ADC CRT. It would be nice if there were a an DVI-to-ADC adapter that worked with it. It's a shame—I enjoy this monitor.

[kikkoman]

Yeah forgot about the analog ADC monitors, that sucks. The DVI to ADC adapter is only digital and doesn't have enough juice to drive a CRT. I was glad to see Apple started using standard VGA connector with the B&W G3. When ADC was introduced I thought it was a real step backwards in terms of compatiblity. ADC is Apple's thrid proprietary display connector. I hope it's their last.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by csimon2:
MindFad wrote:Well, it has become obviously apparent now that there was no intention to keep the ADC monitors in the line-up once they switched back (yes, back; the original 15" Blue-and-white Apple LCDs had DVI) to DVI.

Why is the ADC to DVI more expensive than ADC to VGA? With VGA, it has to convert the signal to analog, with DVI, all it is doing is extracting the native digital signal.)

First, just to nitpick (and provide Apple history), the original rev. A dark blue and rev. B blue & white (blueberry) G3-styled 15" Studio Display were VGA, not DVI (I've got a blueberry-colored one). The rev. C G4-graphite colored version was the first Apple DVI-based display. These three were controlled via ADB connectors, and provided two downstream ADB ports.

The original rev. A 22" Cinema Display was also DVI - not ADC (ADC didn't exist yet). It had a single cable with a break-out pod splitting into separate DVI, USB and power cables. The rev. B 22" Cinema was the first ADC-based screen, and the similarly styled lucite ADC-based 15" LCD studio display (Apple's 4th 15" LCD revision) was released at the same time, along with the 17" ADC-based CRT display.

Also, the ADC-to-VGA and DVI-to-VGA adapters don't actually do any digital to analog conversion. The ADC outputs, as well as DVI-I outputs, provide an analog signal carried on separate pins. These adapters just provide a a VGA-standard pin-out. ADC-to-VGA adapters are probably more expensive than there DVI counterparts because the ADC connector is more expensive to buy than the mass-produced DVI.

[imdipped]

I have an Apple LCD 17 inch Studio Display with the cable coming out of the monitor with an ADC connector. It plugs into the standard video card that came with my G4/400 Gigabit Ethernet Power Mac. I think the card is an ATI Radeon 7500. It has an ADC and a VGA output. I started looking for the ADC/DVI adapters at the Apple store and found what I think is the adapter I need if I were to buy a new Apple computer without ADC.

I think it is this one (DVI to ADC) and it costs $99.00. Am I correct?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....6.25.7.11.0.3

The ADC to DVI adapter ($29.00) is if you have a DVI monitor and want to hook it to an ADC output.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....6.25.7.11.1.3

QUESTION: Is the only reason you can’t use the $29.00 adapter is because of the plug polarity?

[spiky_dog]

Originally posted by imdipped:
QUESTION: Is the only reason you can�t use the $29.00 adapter is because of the plug polarity?

i don't believe so. i have one of those dvi -> adc adapters, and it is a huge beast. its big power supply leads me to believe that there are some serious machinations going on underhood.

[york28]

I think that it's lame that I just bought a new DP1.8 and it came equipped with ports for monitors that are no longer being made.

The DVI->VGA cable was a nice touch, but I would have liked a ADC->VGA too. Not a big deal, but for $2000, I shouldn't have to buy that seperately.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by spiky_dog:
i don't believe so. i have one of those dvi -> adc adapters, and it is a huge beast. its big power supply leads me to believe that there are some serious machinations going on underhood.

ADC monitors don't have a power supply. The $99 DVI-to-ADC box provides power for the ADC display when connected to a computer without ADC (or when the ADC connector is already occupied). That's why its a hundred bucks.