[Zero2aHero]

Hi everyone, I've been using pc's since... well forever and since sp2 came out it's really just pissed me off to no avail. With that and the unveiling of the new iMacs I think I am ready to buy a mac. I'm gonna save my pc and put it somewhere, but the main reason I use a computer is for school, internet stuff, and recording music. So that leads to my questions...

1. What's this about macs having a special speaker input?
2. How good is the sound quality? I have pretty good speakers, 400 watt THX Logitech speakers, but is the onboard sound all that great where I will even need these speakers? Reason I'm asking this is because I'm pretty much selling everything I own so I won't have to charge too much of the mac onto my credit card. If the onboard sound card isn't all that great then I would sell these speakers and get something a little less extravent, I have no use for 4.1 speakers really.
3. For anyone who records music, what programs do you use? I played with garage band a little bit and although it was fun to mess around with, will it really do the job?
4. I saw the new iMacs had a line in, but if I'm not mistaken I didn't see a mic input... I have a yamaha motif that would go into the line in so where would I plug the mic in at?
5. I know I need to upgrade the ram... at least 512 but is there that much of a difference between 512 and 1 gig of ram? And if so, is it cheaper to buy seperately by myself and install on my own... furthermore is it tough to install? I am a whiz with pc's but know nothing about macs.
6. In regards to the airport, is that something I can add myself later on if I don't want to pay for it right now?

I guess that's all I can think of for now, thanks for the input

[george68]

If you ever want to play a 3d game forget about the iMac.


- Rob

[deboerjo]

"since sp2 came out it's really just pissed me off to no avail."
Agreed!

1. Depends on what Mac you're talking about, some have special combo jacks that take standard headphones but also are optical ports if you use an adapter, etc. Check the Tech Specs on Apple's website. However, if you want to really do serious audio work, you'll probably want one of these guys, or this guy, or something similar.

2. 4.1 speakers are certainly a waste (particularly of desk space) since the onboard sound is 2.0 stereo, but generally (but not always, the MDD G4 towers were a notable exception) the quality of a Mac's output is quite good, and can take advantage of even professional stereo speakers.

3. I really haven't been able to find an adequate multitrack editing and recording replacement for SoundEdit 16 for System 7.1. Goes to show how long it's been since I've done any sound editing. The USB sound systems I linked to above come with software, but I don't know how good it is (I would guess VERY).

4. See my answer to 1), you really need a USB sound system. The iMacs have a built-in microphone, but no mic jack.

5. 512 should be plenty. More RAM improves performance tremendously up to a point, but once you reach a point where your system has all it needs the benefit drops off sharply. 128MB is OS X's minimum requirement, but even basic web browseing is miserable with that amount of RAM, 192MB is the least you'd ever want, 256MB is much more comfy. As you run more programs at once and run more demanding programs, memory needs go up, but the only non-server situation that I've ever seen that can really benefit from more than 512MB of RAM is video editing.

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by george68:
If you ever want to play a 3d game forget about the iMac.

- Rob

What, the new G5 iMacs? Bull. They handle just fine ANY games currently on the market, and any games in the forseeable future. Doom3 (which won't be out for some months yet) appears to be setting the mark for the system requirements of the next generation of games, and the iMac should run that just fine at lower resolutions with FSAA turned off. A G5 iMac should satisfy the casual gamer for the next 2 years or so.

-Jon

[The Milkman]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
4. See my answer to 1), you really need a USB sound system. The iMacs have a built-in microphone, but no mic jack.

Audio: Headphone/optical digital audio output; audio line in
From http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

[Gee4orce]

Wow. Quite a bit of misinformation on this thread !

1) Speakers - the iMac G5 has a standard minijack/optical output. The previous generation iMac had a special speaker jack, but also had a standard headphones jack.

2) new iMac G5 - don't know, but my guess is pretty good. Old iMac G4 - pretty amazing. The sound you get from two little globe speakers, plus an iSub is nothing short of amazing. I've had people comment that they can't believe that those little speakers were making that sound.

The new iMac will support 5.1 audio - it's mentioned specifically on the product page. That's what the optical cable is for. Not something I'm bothered about personally, I have a home theatre system for DVD and games.

I'm not into audio, so I can't answer the those questions, but I've played with Garageband and unless you're a serious about making music, it'll probably suprise you how good it is. Plus, there's a rumour Apple are making a pro version.

Airport and memory are a very simple install, in any generation iMac. In the new iMac, it looks as though even a Hard Drive install will be pretty routine too.

I know serveral people who have switched to Macs, and they love them.

[george68]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
What, the new G5 iMacs? Bull. They handle just fine ANY games currently on the market, and any games in the forseeable future. Doom3 (which won't be out for some months yet) appears to be setting the mark for the system requirements of the next generation of games, and the iMac should run that just fine at lower resolutions with FSAA turned off. A G5 iMac should satisfy the casual gamer for the next 2 years or so.

-Jon

You're correct. They'll play UT2004 just fine...as long as you're playing 640X480 witha ll the options turned way down.

- $

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by The Milkman:
Audio: Headphone/optical digital audio output; audio line in
From http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

He needs BOTH line-in and mic-in simultaneously though.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
He needs BOTH line-in and mic-in simultaneously though.

This is the cheapes solution.
We are not talking highest quality though.

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic/

-t

[LORL]

Originally posted by george68:
You're correct. They'll play UT2004 just fine...as long as you're playing 640X480 witha ll the options turned way down.

- $

Did you honestly buy a Mac expecting to be a gamer anyway?

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
1) Speakers - the iMac G5 has a standard minijack/optical output. The previous generation iMac had a special speaker jack, but also had a standard headphones jack.

Isn't that what I said? It varies from Mac to Mac, check the specs. (a headphone jack is NOT the same as a line-level output)

As for 5.1 sound, they don't advertise that very well, I couldn't find reference to it anywhere when they announced the new iMacs, by all apearances they're stereo. Can you provide a link?

-Jon

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by george68:
You're correct. They'll play UT2004 just fine...as long as you're playing 640X480 witha ll the options turned way down.

If an iMac G4 plays UT2004 just fine at 1024x768 with midrange options settings, an iMac G5 can do the same.

[jamesa]

I'll answer the ones I can help you with.

2: What I'd suggest is hang on to your speakers until after you get the iMac, plug them in, see if you're happy. If you want something less extravagant, you can get it, if you want to keep them you can do that also.

The sound quality generally on Macs is excellent; a lot of musicians use them.

5: A gig of RAM will really set you up. Don't buy it from Apple though! There are much better (cheaper) places to buy online; www.macsales.com is where I go normally (no affiliation, just a happy customer).

I haven't seen one myself, but I'm sure you can add it yourself. Remember, most of the parts inside a Mac are exactly the same as a PC.

6: Can't be definite, but I'm pretty sure you *can* add Airport yourself later on. Similarly, I'm pretty sure you *can't* add Bluetooth later on, so if you want it, best get it straight away.

Good luck, and enjoy - the Apple machines are way, way better than Windows

Originally posted by george68:
If you ever want to play a 3d game forget about the iMac.

- Rob

I don't think he put 3d gaming in his list of things to do.

I think you're taking this too far Rob. If he asked the question, fine, but offering your opinion anyway isn't really helping him.

-- james

[pliny]

mybe we can leave the 3d gaming is suxx!! but oh and so is the gpu on the new g5!!! for the other threads already for that.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by LORL:
Did you honestly buy a Mac expecting to be a gamer anyway?

Dare you to bring reason and logic into this discussion !

-t

[george68]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
If an iMac G4 plays UT2004 just fine at 1024x768 with midrange options settings, an iMac G5 can do the same.

I own an iMac G4 and it doesn't play at all well at that resolution. It gets about 8-25 fps. With everything turned way down, it can BARELY get above 30, when I'm staring at something that isn't moving.

- Ca$h

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by george68:
I own an iMac G4 and it doesn't play at all well at that resolution. It gets about 8-25 fps. With everything turned way down, it can BARELY get above 30, when I'm staring at something that isn't moving.
- Ca$h

What kind? My friend's roommate has an iMac G4 1.25 (GeForceFX 5200 Ultra video) and it plays UT2004 just fine at 1024x768, I don't know what frame rates exactly, but it consistantly stays above 15fps (the threshold of noticable lag) no matter how busy things get. An iMac G5 has the same video and a much faster processor, so it should be able to handle the same res even better.

-Jon

[Zero2aHero]

Wow, guys... that was some great feedback.

As for 3d gaming, I really don't care... my brother is always in my room using my computer so I'm gonna put my pc in our loft for him to use (plus I don't want him using my imac) so if I ever want to play a game I will still have the pc around.

Great links deboerjo, I had never really looked into the different kinds of hardware I could get for recording... that stuff looks great though, I bookmarked that page with all the usb preamps.

I think I'm gonna sell my speakers, like someone said... they just take up too much space and it's not like I listen to music all *that* loud to need speakers this powerful. Just want to get something that sounds clear.

I ordered an imac today, settled with 512 ram... the overall vibe I got was that I would only need over 512 if I was editing video and I'm not. Plus I can't afford any more ram than that. Ha!

Got bluetooth also, figured I don't need airport right now but definitely blue tooth for my phone

Oh one more question... how hard is it gonna be to transfer stuff from this hard drive on my pc to the mac? I know I could buy a router and network them but man that's a pain in the ass... I saw that you can direct link macs by firewire, does that work pc to mac? I have about... 40gb of data to transfer... roughly

[jamesa]

Originally posted by Zero2aHero:

Oh one more question... how hard is it gonna be to transfer stuff from this hard drive on my pc to the mac? I know I could buy a router and network them but man that's a pain in the ass... I saw that you can direct link macs by firewire, does that work pc to mac? I have about... 40gb of data to transfer... roughly

Sounds good!

For the PC transfer, you'll need to buy a special (but cheap) ethernet cable called a crossover cable, then set the network settings of the two machines to talk to eachother. It shouldn't be that hard to do, though I've never done a direct Mac-PC connection before. I'm sure someone here would be able to help you out with it.

Have fun, and good luck

-- james

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by Zero2aHero:
Great links deboerjo, I had never really looked into the different kinds of hardware I could get for recording... that stuff looks great though, I bookmarked that page with all the usb preamps.

Just in case you missed it, also note Turtle777's link to that iMic unit, that's a nice little device for the price, hadn't seen those before (thanks t!)

Oh one more question... how hard is it gonna be to transfer stuff from this hard drive on my pc to the mac? I know I could buy a router and network them but man that's a pain in the ass... I saw that you can direct link macs by firewire, does that work pc to mac? I have about... 40gb of data to transfer... roughly

Firewire networking is kinda flakey under windows, a simple Ethernet crossover cable would work better; just plug one end into the Ethernet port on each machine, and configure each machine's TCP/IP settings for a static IP address; set one to 10.0.0.1, the other one to 10.0.0.2, subnet mask on both of them to 255.255.255.0, and leave DNS and gateway addresses blank. Then just set up a share on the Windows box and the iMac should see it when you go to "Network".

[storer]

I will agree with you about SP2. I am on an Xp machine now with Sp2 and man, thats some nasty sh*t.

[St.John]

Originally posted by jamesa:
Sounds good!

For the PC transfer, you'll need to buy a special (but cheap) ethernet cable called a crossover cable, then set the network settings of the two machines to talk to eachother. It shouldn't be that hard to do, though I've never done a direct Mac-PC connection before. I'm sure someone here would be able to help you out with it.

Have fun, and good luck

-- james

I just plugged a *normal* ethernet cable into my powerbook and PC and turned on Windows file sharing and that worked fine for me. Is this just a Powerbook thing, or will it work on all Apple computers made recently?

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by St.John:
I just plugged a *normal* ethernet cable into my powerbook and PC and turned on Windows file sharing and that worked fine for me. Is this just a Powerbook thing, or will it work on all Apple computers made recently?

Could be your PC, too. There's a trend these days toward ethernet chipsets that sense the orientation of the wires and do the crossover internally if necessary. Only one side of the link has to have this feature for a normal Ethernet cable to work where you would normally need a patch cable, so either your Powerbook or your PC (or both) have this feature. I haven't used crossover connections with Macs in a long time, if they've started adding this feature to Macs, I have no idea when they started doing it and with what models.

[sambeau]

Originally posted by St.John:
I just plugged a *normal* ethernet cable into my powerbook and PC and turned on Windows file sharing and that worked fine for me. Is this just a Powerbook thing, or will it work on all Apple computers made recently?

That's a PowerBook thing. Mac laptops detect if they need to cross-over and do it automagically.

Another "hidden extra" that macs provide for free.

[St.John]

Originally posted by sambeau:
That's a PowerBook thing. Mac laptops detect if they need to cross-over and do it automagically.

Another "hidden extra" that macs provide for free.

Surely it makes sense to have this on ALL Apple computers now? It's just so handy, and it surely can't cost much more than standard ethernet cards?

[sambeau]

Originally posted by St.John:
Surely it makes sense to have this on ALL Apple computers now? It's just so handy, and it surely can't cost much more than standard ethernet cards?

Firewire is much faster for this sort of thing though.

[Zero2aHero]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
Just in case you missed it, also note Turtle777's link to that iMic unit, that's a nice little device for the price, hadn't seen those before (thanks t!)

Firewire networking is kinda flakey under windows, a simple Ethernet crossover cable would work better; just plug one end into the Ethernet port on each machine, and configure each machine's TCP/IP settings for a static IP address; set one to 10.0.0.1, the other one to 10.0.0.2, subnet mask on both of them to 255.255.255.0, and leave DNS and gateway addresses blank. Then just set up a share on the Windows box and the iMac should see it when you go to "Network".

I was at Compusa today and I saw that iMic thing, that might have to be what I get... I also saw a set of Creative speakers, I-trigue, I think they were called... had a little volume remote attached to it with a headphone/mic input, so that's another option

Oh thought of another question... with iTunes, is it possible to transfer my iTunes play count over to the mac version? I've been using the windows version of iTunes for a long long time and one of my favorite features is that it keeps count of how many times you've played a song... is it possible to carry that data over or am I gonna have to fast foward through each song a zillion times to get it back to what it was? Ha, that would be dreadful.

[hldan]

Originally posted by storer:
I will agree with you about SP2. I am on an Xp machine now with Sp2 and man, thats some nasty sh*t.

This is a bit off topic but you mentioned about XP and SP2? I was curious what's issues are you having? I wanted to get the new Virtual PC 7 with XP SP2 when it's released next week. Are there compatibility issues? If so then should I get the Virtual PC application only and install my old copy of Windows with SP1?

[storer]

Originally posted by hldan:
This is a bit off topic but you mentioned about XP and SP2? I was curious what's issues are you having? I wanted to get the new Virtual PC 7 with XP SP2 when it's released next week. Are there compatibility issues? If so then should I get the Virtual PC application only and install my old copy of Windows with SP1?

Oh, its nothing serious, just more annoying windows traits. This Windows Security Centre thing is terrible. It really slows down by brand new Pentium 4 2.8ghz machine... its really terrible. Depending on your machine, I would put SP1 and later update.

[Zero2aHero]

Originally posted by hldan:
This is a bit off topic but you mentioned about XP and SP2? I was curious what's issues are you having? I wanted to get the new Virtual PC 7 with XP SP2 when it's released next week. Are there compatibility issues? If so then should I get the Virtual PC application only and install my old copy of Windows with SP1?

For me personally I have had the following troubles...

- The internet has slowed down a ton
- The pop-up blocker is terrible, it has no brain at all... it blocks pop-ups even if I click on a link that is to open in a new window.
- Security center is blah
- Computer in general is much slower and I've been having problems with lots of programs locking up. Of course MS says that those programs are freezing up because they were programmed properly in the first place, but whatever, they don't work and it just sounds like MS is deflecting the blame.
- The new Windows Media Player 10 is miserable also, it miscalculates the lenght of all my movies... it thinks that every movie is like 2 minutes long and stops showing video after like a minute but you still hear sound. Did I mention that WMP has locked up at least 15 times since I downloaded the new one?

That's all I can think of for now, it's irritating that a supposed huge update that is supposed to tide us over until Longhorn comes out with this kind of quality, it's just unacceptable... which is why I say bring on OSX.

[storer]

Yeh, all of those too. I hate SP2, with a passion.

[deboerjo]

Regarding XP service pack 2, disable the firewall entirely, use Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox instead of IE, and use Winamp instead of Windows Media Player, and you can solve the majority of SP2's problems. The only major remaining issue is that the TCP/IP stack has been nerfed to limit the number of simultaneous connections per port, breaking bittorrent and other p2p software.

-Jon

[Zero2aHero]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
Regarding XP service pack 2, disable the firewall entirely, use Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox instead of IE, and use Winamp instead of Windows Media Player, and you can solve the majority of SP2's problems. The only major remaining issue is that the TCP/IP stack has been nerfed to limit the number of simultaneous connections per port, breaking bittorrent and other p2p software.

-Jon

I used firefox for awhile (especially with the safari mod), but the problem is that none of the spyware programs support firefox... they only block spyware that has come up from IE.

I use iTunes instead of Media player.

I did disable the firewall.

It's an irritation because MS hyped this to be such a huge release for them and all it's done has cause trouble. One of the best draws for buying an apple is that the best software you can get in terms of media stuff is pretty much what comes with the system. They're OS is much more complete than Microsofts. For example...
When was the last time IE saw an update?

Oh...

1. Can someone explain the authoring thing to me in regards to the ipod... I own a Rio Karma and of course they don't support osx so I bought an ipod and I'm gonna sell my karma. If I setup my ipod with my pc until my imac comes am I gonna have trouble setting up the ipod with the imac when I stop using my pc? My friend told me that you can author it to a different computer but then it erases the hard drive... is that true? I don't trust her that much because she works in an electronics store and got her info from someone else and people who work in electronics stores generally know nothing.

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by Zero2aHero:
I used firefox for awhile (especially with the safari mod), but the problem is that none of the spyware programs support firefox... they only block spyware that has come up from IE.

I use iTunes instead of Media player.

*cringe* what "spyware programs" are you using? Most programs that claim to be spyware removers that supposedly require IE are in fact spyware themselves and and they "require" IE because it's the only browser they can break into. The only spyware removers you should ever use are Lavasoft's Ad-Aware 6 and Safer Networking's Spybot Search & Destroy. Ad-Aware doesn't care what browser you use, and Spybot's browser extension for IE simply prevents ActiveX from installing programs automatically, which Mozilla-based browsers already prevent, and such an extension for them would be redundant. Trust me, use Firefox if you're using Windows.

As for iTunes instead of media player, good call, although I found the PC version of iTunes to be rather bloated. It also does not support video playback, making it inadequate as a complete Windows Media Player replacement. Winamp 5 gives you both video and audio playback, and also occupies about 1/3 the memory of iTunes and I personally like Winamp's media library better.

It's an irritation because MS hyped this to be such a huge release for them and all it's done has cause trouble.

It's stated purpose was better security, and it has achieved this goal, but at the expense of usablility. Kinda like yanking the plug and saying "Ha! Try hacking it now!"

-Jon

[Toyin]

Originally posted by Zero2aHero:
I was at Compusa today and I saw that iMic thing, that might have to be what I get... I also saw a set of Creative speakers, I-trigue, I think they were called... had a little volume remote attached to it with a headphone/mic input, so that's another option

Oh thought of another question... with iTunes, is it possible to transfer my iTunes play count over to the mac version? I've been using the windows version of iTunes for a long long time and one of my favorite features is that it keeps count of how many times you've played a song... is it possible to carry that data over or am I gonna have to fast foward through each song a zillion times to get it back to what it was? Ha, that would be dreadful.

All of that data is located on two files in iTunes Folder (iTunes 4 Music Library & iTunes Music Library.xml). If you copy your iTunes and iTunes music folders in its entirety to the Mac and then point iTunes to the new folder (through preferences->advanced) it should be identical to iTunes on your PC.

[pliny]

Originally posted by Zero2aHero:
For me personally I have had the following troubles...

- The internet has slowed down a ton
- The pop-up blocker is terrible, it has no brain at all... it blocks pop-ups even if I click on a link that is to open in a new window.
- Security center is blah
- Computer in general is much slower and I've been having problems with lots of programs locking up. Of course MS says that those programs are freezing up because they were programmed properly in the first place, but whatever, they don't work and it just sounds like MS is deflecting the blame.
- The new Windows Media Player 10 is miserable also, it miscalculates the lenght of all my movies... it thinks that every movie is like 2 minutes long and stops showing video after like a minute but you still hear sound. Did I mention that WMP has locked up at least 15 times since I downloaded the new one?

That's all I can think of for now, it's irritating that a supposed huge update that is supposed to tide us over until Longhorn comes out with this kind of quality, it's just unacceptable... which is why I say bring on OSX.

All of this sounds just terrible. Many people spend alot of time in front of their machines and that they put up with all these sorts of problems and constraints is surprising.

All of this stuff is just one reason why I definitely prefer the Macintosh.

And as for Longhorn coming out and solving Windows problems...yeah right! But I won't even get into that one until something called Longhorn ships in a box in 2-4 years.

[Zero2aHero]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
The only spyware removers you should ever use are Lavasoft's Ad-Aware 6 and Safer Networking's Spybot Search & Destroy.

-Jon

Heh, those are both the ones I use. Spybot no longer works after the sp2 update though, it locks up everytime I try to remove what it found. Ad-aware still works though.

[Turnpike]

sorry to derail this thread back to Macs, but...

I have read that all newer macs have the auto-detecting NIC; no crossover cable required. I read this quite a while ago, too... I believe the first tower models that were claimed to have this feature were around the 533 range (this was the low-end at the time, IIRC), so it's been a while.

Also, I think 512MB RAM is a good place to start. However, I think somebody was giving misinformation when they said only "pro" apps will benefit from more. Up to a gig, things really ramp up with the RAM you put in. I think 1.5 gigs is about the sweet spot, as far as diminishing returns goes. 2 gigs is the max the iMac G5 can take. In a year or so, when you start to look longingly at the new line of computers (we all do it), remember this and bump up your RAM a little more -- you'll be pleasantly surprised, and it will feel fast enough that you'll not be too distracted by those machines, 'cause you'll have just enjoyed a speed bump of your own and not feel like you're dragging in place

[turtle777]

Originally posted by St.John:
Surely it makes sense to have this on ALL Apple computers now? It's just so handy, and it surely can't cost much more than standard ethernet cards?

AFAIK it IS standard on all Mas now.
Even my iBook (Rev.1, G3, 500MHz) does that.

-t

[Turnpike]

Originally posted by turtle777:
AFAIK it IS standard on all Mas now.
Even my iBook (Rev.1, G3, 500MHz) does that.

-t

Yeah... I was transferring files between my Sawtooth and my mom's 233 G3 PBook, and I remember thinking that I was one or two revisions off of not needing a crossover cable (or hub, in my case.. way easier to find around here )