[the_glassman]

While looking for some Apple branded media I had the pleasure of checking out the new iMac at the local retail outlet. The model on display was a 1.6 GHz 17" with the standard configuration.
I only had a few minutes to try it out, as I was quickly discouraged from any further use by the representative. I asked if they had any in stock, to which the reply went something like this, "are you kidding me? Apple has only shipped 12 world wide."
I will reserve most of my judgment until I get more time to try one out, or at the very least look at the 20" model.

However, I wasn't overly impressed with the limited time I had spent on it. The screen on this particular model seemed very grainy (non native resolution perhaps) No where near as clear as my Cinema display. Less clear and clean then my bottom feeder eMac even.

The look is subjective and is a hit or miss, but this computer is one ugly mofo! When the wife came by to look at the computer with me, the first words out of her mouth were, "no way! It's a damn ugly machine, what were they thinking?"
The plain and very large chin on this otherwise elegant computer really do a displeasure to the eyes. I know the power supply is inside the computer and therefore one of the reasons for the chin, but I would much rather have an external brick tucked behind the desk.
If there were an optical drive or door on the front it wouldn't look so disproportional, even if they put dare I say fake speaker or cooling grilles, or an glowing apple, anything to take away the hideously disproportional lower chin on the computer.

The adjustability of the display is very nice, while nowhere as easy and maneuverable as the last generation iMacs, I look forward to seeing setups with the VASE mounts available.

I hope to get more hands on experience, especially with 20" model before I pass finally judgment, but would love for other users to jump in and share their experience.

[tdward]

Dude your opinion is your opinion, however, I think you are full of shhhhhhhhh! I love my 20" and have had it for a few weeks. It is was awesome machine. Does everything I need it to do and then some. It must be nice to be so negative and pessamistic about stuff.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by the_glassman:

I only had a few minutes to try it out, as I was quickly discouraged from any further use by the representative.

How and why did he discourage you from further use?

[the_glassman]

Originally posted by tdward:
Dude your opinion is your opinion, however, I think you are full of shhhhhhhhh! I love my 20" and have had it for a few weeks. It is was awesome machine. Does everything I need it to do and then some. It must be nice to be so negative and pessamistic about stuff.

That's why it's called an opinion! It may do everything you need to do, and I'm glad, but it most certainly does not meet everyones needs. I have a very open mind about many things and I clearly stated I will reserve judgment until I have more hands on experience with the machine. I'm hardly being negative. If you enjoy you machine and it does what you need it to do, then I congratulate you with your purchase and hope that it brings you many years of computing nirvana.

[im_noahselby]

I still haven't seen it in person yet, so I'll reserve my final judgement of the machine until that time, but from what I have seen of it online in pictures it seems to really lack the character that the previous two iMac's had.

Apple really hyped the original iMac G4's and no one bought them, so I can't really blame Apple for going in this direction. In the end though, a computer is simply a computer...

Noah

[mo]

I'm typing this at my 17-inch G5 iMac, and I have found it to be a good machine. Quite fine so far. It's only been two days, so I'm not exactly willing to declare victory here. But I like the machine a lot. Rock solid. quiet, fast. More later, I guess.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
Apple really hyped the original iMac G4's and no one bought them, so I can't really blame Apple for going in this direction. In the end though, a computer is simply a computer...

The iMac G4 had the potential to be as big of a success as the iMac G3. But Apple made two fatal blunders that pretty much killed the initial craze over it.

For starters, they vastly underestimated the number of pre-orders they would get and the waiting list to get one quickly became months long. Then, Apple hiked the price by $100 on all three models with the intention of killing demand.

The iMac G4 never recovered from it.

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
The iMac G4 had the potential to be as big of a success as the iMac G3. But Apple made two fatal blunders that pretty much killed the initial craze over it.

For starters, they vastly underestimated the number of pre-orders they would get and the waiting list to get one quickly became months long. Then, Apple hiked the price by $100 on all three models with the intention of killing demand.

The iMac G4 never recovered from it.

The original iMac G4 800 was my first Mac and I remember that price hike. LCD and Ram prices soared up in the entire industry for awhile and that prompted Apple to impose a temporary price hike. What was so surprising was the fact that the new iMacs hadn't been on the market for very long, when Apple raised the price of all the models up by like $150-200 Cdn. Luckily, I got my machine before this happened, but I surely would have canceled my order if I had been stuck paying for that crap. I hope something like this never happens again...

Noah

[PBG4 User]

I almost want to call BS to the original poster of this thread. First of all, why wouldn't anyone want you to check out the computer? How are you going to know if it's what you want until you take it for a spin?

Second, the comment about "only 12 being shipped worldwide" is another comment that smells like BS to me. While not as plentiful as iBooks or PowerBooks, the local Apple store has the 17" models in stock. I had to wait 2 days to get my 20" iMac. I'm sure I would still be waiting if only 12 had been shipped.

Also, CompUSA has online availability of the 17" model, as well as J&R computers. Heck, people in Europe are receiving their orders! That certainly wouldn't happen if the supply was as constrained as you purport.

With the stock amount of RAM, the new iMacs are underperformers, I'll give you that. But I've upgraded my iMac's RAM so now it cranks! Every operation is noticeably faster than my 1.25GHz PowerBook. I mean noticeably, like a 33 - 50% speedup in my informal testing.

[iREZ]

Time for some formal testing to get some real info.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by PBG4 User:
Also, CompUSA has online availability of the 17" model, as well as J&R computers. Heck, people in Europe are receiving their orders! That certainly wouldn't happen if the supply was as constrained as you purport.

2-3 week wait for an iMac here at the local Apple Store. The online Apple Store is 3-4 weeks est. Zero (in store) stock at CompUSA.

Sounds like there isn't a hugh supply but I agree about the "only 12 shipped worldwide" being BS.

[the_glassman]

Originally posted by PBG4 User:
I almost want to call BS to the original poster of this thread. First of all, why wouldn't anyone want you to check out the computer? How are you going to know if it's what you want until you take it for a spin?

Second, the comment about "only 12 being shipped worldwide" is another comment that smells like BS to me. While not as plentiful as iBooks or PowerBooks, the local Apple store has the 17" models in stock. I had to wait 2 days to get my 20" iMac. I'm sure I would still be waiting if only 12 had been shipped.

Also, CompUSA has online availability of the 17" model, as well as J&R computers. Heck, people in Europe are receiving their orders! That certainly wouldn't happen if the supply was as constrained as you purport.

With the stock amount of RAM, the new iMacs are underperformers, I'll give you that. But I've upgraded my iMac's RAM so now it cranks! Every operation is noticeably faster than my 1.25GHz PowerBook. I mean noticeably, like a 33 - 50% speedup in my informal testing.

It's because the local Apple reseller is a bunch of clowns, who don't know anything about the computers, customers or anything in general. Call BS if you want, but feel free to come down and try out the store. You will more then likely get a cold shoulder like I did, because they don't know $hit about customer care or service. I'm amazed this place hasn't yet gone out of business. The person did indeed say only 12 shipped worldwide. Of course I know that's
a)full of ****, or
b)doesn't know what they are ****ing talking about or
c)all of the above.
But hey what do I know I just buy them and use them?

I'm not some troll that came here to crack at the iMac, I'm just posting my quite limited experiance and impressions. In doing so I requested others feedback as well. In the past 5 years I've owned 7 different Mac's from ibook's and eMac's to dual processor Power Mac's.

[Finrock]

I enjoyed reading everyone's reviews and pictures of the new iMac so I've finally posted my mini-review and pics of my new 20" iMac G5.

[ Sorry, I had to remove the link. ]

-Finrock

[poet guy]

I agree with you glassman. The new design is . . . well, underwhelming. It just doesn't light my fire. I've owned Macs since 1988 and have liked every one of them. I currently own a gray DV 400 mhz imac. I skipped the shaving mirror imac to wait for the next generation. Now that its here, I'm at a loss. Perhaps if they had grafted the clear halo of the cinema display onto that plain white box it might've helped. Is white the only color they ship in? Sigh, its going to be a looong wait for the next one. Crap.

[PeterKG]

I think this thread does such a diservice to anyone reading it. First of all it is hardly a review of any sort. It is only a lousy opinion. I don't even know why you would waste your time or ours. Secondly, your Apple store experience is far different then mine. Sure there are some employees without a clue, but in the store I shop (Costa Mesa, CA), they are more then knowlegable and helpful. And lastly, I actually own the new iMac, and it is by far the best one I have owned.

[Parky]

Originally posted by poet guy:
I agree with you glassman. The new design is . . . well, underwhelming. It just doesn't light my fire. I've owned Macs since 1988 and have liked every one of them. I currently own a gray DV 400 mhz imac. I skipped the shaving mirror imac to wait for the next generation. Now that its here, I'm at a loss. Perhaps if they had grafted the clear halo of the cinema display onto that plain white box it might've helped. Is white the only color they ship in? Sigh, its going to be a looong wait for the next one. Crap.

Have you seen the new iMac in person yet?
You will get a very different view in the flesh, pics don't show the detail of the 'halo' that exists on the new model. There is a clear halo around the G5 iMac it's about 1/4 inch thick and makes the iMac look like it is made from a solid chunk rather than a case.

When I put it next to my old G4, it made the G4 look very old fashioned, the new one is so sleek and minimal. You really don't notice the white area below the screen, no more than you would notice the area below the screen on the original Bondi, eMac, etc.

I know that from the photos it does not have the same instant appeal that other iMacs have had, but in reality it is a design classic and a quality product.

You only need to look at the manufacturing tolerances, the quality of the materials, the internal design, etc, etc. It is leaps ahead of anything else on the market quality wise.

Even compared to all the previous iMacs I have owned, this is the best made and designed.
I had a Bondi iMac, a Graphite DVSE, a G4 FP and all were not as well built of finished as the G5. Internally it is even more stunning with easy access to all parts, everything has plastic tags so you can easily pull items out without having to use tools.

Ian

[kcmac]

I'm with Parky. Best Mac I've owned. Period. Liked it since pulling it out of the box. Every day I use I like it more.

The one thing I have noticed about the aluminum foot. After awhile it disappears. This iMac seems to float more than the G4 which only gave you this illusion when you had the screen set to the lowest position to block out the dome.

My wife and daughter play the Sims a lot. They set the CD right on top of the foot for easy use. This makes the foot disappear even more.

The space savings of this design has been a boon to my family. It sits in our kitchen and blends into its surroundings. Something our other iMac never did. Looks more like an appliance than a computer. And that's a good thing in my mind.

[the_glassman]

Originally posted by PeterKG:
I think this thread does such a diservice to anyone reading it. First of all it is hardly a review of any sort. It is only a lousy opinion. I don't even know why you would waste your time or ours. Secondly, your Apple store experience is far different then mine. Sure there are some employees without a clue, but in the store I shop (Costa Mesa, CA), they are more then knowlegable and helpful. And lastly, I actually own the new iMac, and it is by far the best one I have owned.

Then why did you bother posting and bumping the thread? D#ck. If it makes you feel better I'm going to a actual apple store tomorrow to get a better look, but at this point think I'm going to get a Power Mac.

[PeterKG]

Originally posted by the_glassman:
Then why did you bother posting and bumping the thread? D#ck. If it makes you feel better I'm going to a actual apple store tomorrow to get a better look, but at this point think I'm going to get a Power Mac.

I didn't bump the thread. It was right up top. And I didn't resort to name calling either (mature). But the fact remains, your original post was lousy opinion. So be sure to come back after really studying the new iMac and tell us what you think. Then perhaps you will regain credibility on the subject.

[poet guy]

I hope you guys are right. But the more I look at that thing, the more it resembles my idea of an evolved emac. One thing I liked about the original imac was the option of choosing a color which, for me, kinda personalized it. I knew, with reasonable certainty, that the next imac owner I met would have one of a different color, and I miss that, but it's just a minor quibble. I'll do as you suggest and visit an Apple Store sometime soon and, who knows, maybe it I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[mintcake]

Can I just say that I really appreciate the feedback from people who have actually had the good fortune to see and use the new iMacs, even if it's just in a showroom? First, second or third impressions, positive or negative, they're all welcome as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to get a good feel for the pros and cons of this new machine and the only way I'm going to do that is to hear from people who have been hands on with it. So thanks for posting the thread, the_glassman.

I'm in the market for a desktop mac, but I have to say I haven't fallen in love with the new iMac, neither with the look nor with the specs. But a G5 tower plus cinema display is an expense that's very hard to justify... So I'm waiting to get face-to-face with the new iMac (not easy here in Ottawa) and in the meantime I'm lapping up other people's impressions.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by discotronic:
2-3 week wait for an iMac here at the local Apple Store. The online Apple Store is 3-4 weeks est. Zero (in store) stock at CompUSA.

Sounds like there isn't a hugh supply but I agree about the "only 12 shipped worldwide" being BS.

As an Apple reseller, we've noticed that custom iMacs appear to be shipping in about half the time of stock models.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
As an Apple reseller, we've noticed that custom iMacs appear to be shipping in about half the time of stock models.

Thanks for the info. I ordered one of the 17" 1.8GHz models with BT and wireless keyboard+mouse. Since that is considered a BTO hopefully I will get it before the est. ship date of 11-1-04.

[mintcake]

Well I've now had the chance to get my hands on one myself, and I have to say my experience kind of chimes with the_glassman's...

I think part of the problem people (including myself) have with the 'chin' is that we're not used to the widescreen 16:10 aspect ratio, and this makes it look as if the 'chin' is eating into the screen. The 17" model that I got to play with definitely felt small to me, and I'm coming from a 12" powerbook! I'd love to play with a 20" model side-by-side and see if it felt very different.

[Chinasaur]

This doesn't surprise. The closest Apple shop (non-corp) is inhabited by attitude-laden no-nothings who exude unhelpfulness. They didn't have an iMac to display. The local CompUSA is not much better although they, at least, had iMacs on display. i've never been to an Apple store so I can't speak for the expertise of it's employees.

I've found most, not all, sellers of comuter parts just got the gig because they graduated out of the appliance side of BestBuy and now think they know systems upside down.

If you go to a store (usually) expecting knowledgeable employees, you'll find they are just wage slaves making a living. NOT all knowing, all seeing, all dancing, Gods of Computing.

[simonjames]

My G4 400 tower is on it's last legs - gets kernal panics a couple of times a day and won't even load the latest version of panther.

And so I am thinking of getting a maxxed out 20" iMac - the BTO time here in Australia is 3 to 4 weeks (according to the Apple store Australia).

I noticed that AppleCare doesn't seem to be an option anymore when buying from the online store. The radio button is already selected and there is no way of unselecting it.

[TC]

Originally posted by the_glassman:
The adjustability of the display is very nice, while nowhere as easy and maneuverable as the last generation iMacs, I look forward to seeing setups with the VASE mounts available.

I think you mean VESA, or are you looking for somewhere to put your flowers?

[daggle]

Originally posted by simonjames:
My G4 400 tower is on it's last legs - gets kernal panics a couple of times a day and won't even load the latest version of panther.

And so I am thinking of getting a maxxed out 20" iMac - the BTO time here in Australia is 3 to 4 weeks (according to the Apple store Australia).

I noticed that AppleCare doesn't seem to be an option anymore when buying from the online store. The radio button is already selected and there is no way of unselecting it.

Just remove the AppleCare item when it lists everything you're purchasing at the end. At least that worked for me when I ordered via Apple Store in Aust.

On or before 21/10/04 for my 21/9/04 order date.

It will be my first ever Mac too

[pysan]

Well, I just played with the new imacs at the Apple store yesterday, first time in person, and they were very nice! The 20" did call you over to it, and it was beautiful, but a bit out of my price range, so I went back to the 17" and while smaller, it still is quite large. After opening several apps to see the useable space on it, it was a no-brainer (of course I'm coming from dedicated use of my 12" iBook for the past 1 1/2 years).

Both of them I played with were set for "auto" and wouldn't let me change it to "highest" but the 20" was still extremely snappy! I opened everything I could, from Dreamweaver to Photoshop, to iMovie, etc... and it blew my iBook out of the water, not that that is surprising, but very nice to see. However the 17" was rather slow and sluggish, and both were the 1.8 G5 with 512 MB so I'm not sure what was going on? My guess is that the 17" still had the stupid demo program running, but minimized in the corner, while the 20" had it closed when I got to it. So either the demo program eats more ram and cpu than photoshop, or the 17" at my applestore was just an anomaly.

As far as looks go I thought they both looked great, and you quickly lose yourself in the high quality of the screen. Also the cords were all neatly going through the hole in the back, and barely noticeable, very nice. The screen moves very easily up and down, and the base is very easy to pivot as well, so all in all I am very impressed and can't wait to pick one up in a few weeks when my budget allows for it!

[im_noahselby]

My Oppinion:

After having seen the new iMac in person on two seperate occasions, I now feel incredibly let down by its design. The model I tested in the store was a 17", so I can only comment on this specific machine. It is definitely lacking in the style and charm the previous iMac's had. Most noticeable was the gigantic ammount of white space underneath the screen, or the "chin".

I'm not at all impressed that they managed to fit everything inside of the back of it's enclosure. The machine just looks huge and you can't miss all of the plastic white space you will stare at when using this computer. Personally, when I'm using a display, I don't want to have to think about anything other than the beautiful LCD I'm looking at, but unfortunately the chin and thick chunky plastic around the screen seemed to overpower it by a large degree.

+ Performance wise it is great for the market it serves.
+ Smaller footprint on the desk than previous iMacs
- LCD viewing experience is ruined by chunky thick plastic around and below the screen
- No Bluetooth as built-in standard. Odd considering how much Apple touts the wireless capabilities of these machines.

Having been an owner of an original 15" G4 iMac, I find myself missing the older design already. It will no doubt in the years to come remain just as much of a classic as the cube is today.

Noah

[PeterKG]

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
My Oppinion:

After having seen the new iMac in person on two seperate occasions, I now feel incredibly let down by its design. The model I tested in the store was a 17", so I can only comment on this specific machine. It is definitely lacking in the style and charm the previous iMac's had. Most noticeable was the gigantic ammount of white space underneath the screen, or the "chin".

I'm not at all impressed that they managed to fit everything inside of the back of it's enclosure. The machine just looks huge and you can't miss all of the plastic white space you will stare at when using this computer. Personally, when I'm using a display, I don't want to have to think about anything other than the beautiful LCD I'm looking at, but unfortunately the chin and thick chunky plastic around the screen seemed to overpower it by a large degree.

+ Performance wise it is great for the market it serves.
+ Smaller footprint on the desk than previous iMacs
- LCD viewing experience is ruined by chunky thick plastic around and below the screen
- No Bluetooth as built-in standard. Odd considering how much Apple touts the wireless capabilities of these machines.

Having been an owner of an original 15" G4 iMac, I find myself missing the older design already. It will no doubt in the years to come remain just as much of a classic as the cube is today.

Noah

Being that you do not own one and don't work with it daily, means your observation is a bit useless. While sitting in front of it, you have no idea as to it's thickness. It looks like a display floating in front of you, that could be as thin as air. The "chin" as you and others call it, also disappears, as you are viewing the LCD. Maybe it is more noticeable on a 17", but the stunning 20" display is incredible, and that is all you would notice after a while. It performs fantastic. Mine has been trouble free and perfect. I too owned and loved a Cube, and would rank this computer as one of the best Apple has made.

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by PeterKG:
Being that you do not own one and don't work with it daily, means your observation is a bit useless.

Maybe you should have read the title of this thread, like I did. It reads: "First impressions of the new iMac" Which were precisely the thoughts I decided to share.

I think you need to implant somewhere in your head that it's okay for others to have their own oppinions. You also need to learn to read the title of threads, before you criticize.

Noah

[kcmac]

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
My Oppinion:
Having been an owner of an original 15" G4 iMac, I find myself missing the older design already. It will no doubt in the years to come remain just as much of a classic as the cube is today.
Noah

And this is why I believe Macs hold their value so well. As soon as they change the form factor the older one becomes the sentimental favorite. Someday this will ring true with the G5.

Of course, I like it now.

And btw, it is okay to express your opinions. Keep 'em coming.

[PeterKG]

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
Maybe you should have read the title of this thread, like I did. It reads: "First impressions of the new iMac" Which were precisely the thoughts I decided to share.

I think you need to implant somewhere in your head that it's okay for others to have their own oppinions. You also need to learn to read the title of threads, before you criticize.

Noah

Noah,

I think you need to implant somewhere in your head that it's okay for others to have their own opinions.

It is my opinion, that your impressions of the new iMac are useless to someone deciding whether to purchase one or not, which were precisely the thoughts I decided to share.

I think the true purpose of this thread could be debated. I had my first impressions about the design of the G4 iMac of which you own, but since those impressions would not have helped someone browsing here in a constructive way toward a possible purchase, I never shared them.

Peace

[flukewurm]

people who worry about the chin just dont understand optics. and optics are universal.

[lpetschauer]

Originally posted by PeterKG:

It is my opinion, that your impressions of the new iMac are useless to someone deciding whether to purchase one or not, which were precisely the thoughts I decided to share.

I think the true purpose of this thread could be debated. I had my first impressions about the design of the G4 iMac of which you own, but since those impressions would not have helped someone browsing here in a constructive way toward a possible purchase, I never shared them.

Peace

I believe a thread like this can be quite helpful to prospective buyers. If someone offers a first impression (be it negative or positive) of a product that doesn't gel with what owners of the product, the owners of the product could, respectfully, offer an impression of their own (based on long-term useage) that contradicts the original post.

In responding in such a way, the owner of the product would, in essence, be saying, "I can see why you might have had such an impression of the product, but from my experience with said product, X is not an issue because ________"

Responding in such a way (rather than demeaning, belittling, or ridiculing the original opinion) would make the thread quite productive – a prospective buyer who might have made a similar observation (but hadn't posted about it) could read someone's take on the matter.

MY opinion is that people on message boards should try to treat each other with respect. And be sure enough of themselves to admit when they're wrong.

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by lpetschauer:
I believe a thread like this can be quite helpful to prospective buyers. If someone offers a first impression (be it negative or positive) of a product that doesn't gel with what owners of the product, the owners of the product could, respectfully, offer an impression of their own (based on long-term useage) that contradicts the original post.

In responding in such a way, the owner of the product would, in essence, be saying, "I can see why you might have had such an impression of the product, but from my experience with said product, X is not an issue because ________"

Responding in such a way (rather than demeaning, belittling, or ridiculing the original opinion) would make the thread quite productive – a prospective buyer who might have made a similar observation (but hadn't posted about it) could read someone's take on the matter.

MY opinion is that people on message boards should try to treat each other with respect. And be sure enough of themselves to admit when they're wrong.

lpetschauer is right, and I couldn't agree more with his comments.

Noah

[ApeInTheShell]

I remember the iMac G4 at CompUSA and was not impressed with it even with the 20' screen. Now that the iMac G5 has come out I am ready to upgrade from the iMac G3. I admit at first the design was not so good for me but online pictures have done it some justice I think.

Since I need/want a computer I thought about getting the eMac because it was fairly inexpensive. The iMac G4 is selling on eBay for decent prices. Somehow it doesn't feel right.

With all the problems I have heard about the sound, fans, and power supply is it worth it to buy soon or wait for the next revision?

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
With all the problems I have heard about the sound, fans, and power supply is it worth it to buy soon or wait for the next revision?

My advice would be to *at all costs* see the new iMac in store and in person before you buy one. I thought it looked "okay" in pictures online, but it wasn't until I was sitting in front of it that I realized this machine was definitely not for me.

Buying any rev a product carries a certain risk, but in my own experience, I never had a single issue with the original iMac g4 rev a machine (now sold and still working!).

Good luck with whatever it is you decide.

Noah

[Krusty]

I agree with Noah ... go see it if at all possible. I may buy a rev B or C as my next computer. However, having seen one in store, it didn't really wow me. But ... it is a solid machine at a really good price ... a worthwhile investment, IMHO. I can't imagine what it will be like for you going from a G3. I went from an iMac G3/450/384mb/80gb to an eMac G4/1.25/1.5gb/160gb and the difference was astonishing.

[edit]
the eMac is, obviously, one h#ll of a bargain. You can really trick it out BIG TIME for less than the price of a low-end G5. However, at this point I can't recommend them anymore for longevity ... some of the graphics features in Tiger will apparently not work on the eMac's graphics card. But ... other than fan noise and strangely weak speakers (much less sound volume than my iMac DV despite having 16w vs 5w total power .. ) its a great machine.