[niko]

After 10 years on the job, I finally convinced my boss to let me dump my PC and get a Mac!

I am ordering a Powermac Dual 2.0 and a 23" Cinema Display.

I have read alot about the problems with the new 23--is there something to this or should I order one anyway. Would I be better off ordering direct from apple if i were to have a problem?

THanks!

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by niko:
After 10 years on the job, I finally convinced my boss to let me dump my PC and get a Mac!

I am ordering a Powermac Dual 2.0 and a 23" Cinema Display.

I have read alot about the problems with the new 23--is there something to this or should I order one anyway. Would I be better off ordering direct from apple if i were to have a problem?

THanks!

I don't know what problems you have heard about but if you order from Apple or anyone else it makes no difference really.

[David Lee]

Some people are definitely having problems with the 23" monitors. Just do a search on the forums here , Macintouch, or at the Apple forum for more information. Apple does not seem to have their response system for this issue settled yet. I would advise care in your selection of a dealer and monitor. Sorry I can not give you more specific advise.

[the_glassman]

Do yourself a favor and get a HP L2335 monitor instead. You'll have a monitor with the same specifications but with a better warranty, cost less and more features.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by the_glassman:
Do yourself a favor and get a HP L2335 monitor instead. You'll have a monitor with the same specifications but with a better warranty, cost less and more features.

I completely disagree, there aren't any monitors out there with the brightness of the Apple.
It's a true Pro screen, and besides it looks great with the G5.

The HP is actually one of the worse competitors. Check it this CNET review (mind you, CNET is not Apple friendly) and see for yourself.

Aside from a few that shipped with bad color logic and some pinkish color issues with the white, the rest are about as good as you can get for LCD. And BRIGHT as hell!
And I have had absolutely no problems with mine in the 3 months I've been using it.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_Cinema...2.html?tag=tab

[Love Calm Quiet]

Apple seems to be having trouble with pink hue on *a lot* of the 23". May want to consider sticking with 20" - or be prepared for several rounds of returns to customer service.

Formac displays have gotten extremely good comments in threads here (peripherals forum?) - though note the issues of having to fax Germany to get RMA. But great quality and lower cost, FWIW.

[southtdi]

Form what I read on Fomramc website they now run out of San Francisco and no more faxes to Germany for RMA's. Haven't called to verify with them though.

[Luca Rescigno]

Dell (gasp!) also makes really good LCDs. Check out the 2001FP and the 2005FPW. The 2005 is the same as the Apple 20" Cinema, but cheaper, and it's at least as good. And I've also seen the pink hue problem on the 23", in an Apple store. Asked an employee about it and he said it was just the lighting, which of course is utter BS since it's a bright WHITE store, not a bright PINK store.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Dell (gasp!) also makes really good LCDs. Check out the 2001FP and the 2005FPW. The 2005 is the same as the Apple 20" Cinema, but cheaper, and it's at least as good. And I've also seen the pink hue problem on the 23", in an Apple store. Asked an employee about it and he said it was just the lighting, which of course is utter BS since it's a bright WHITE store, not a bright PINK store.

Again, the pink hue was limited to a production run of LG screens that were use in the monitor and this has been addressed by Apple. I expect a general recall on the outstanding screens will eventually come out.

The CNET review, and my own anecdotal experience bares out that this is a top notch screen. If however money is a big issue, the HP is a better alternative to the Dell, and Formac is good as well. If you work in a well lit area however, the brightness of the Apple is unmatched in the industry.

[Badwisdom]

Since when has Apple acknowledged the problems with the 23" pink / yellow / bruning issues ? Ive never heard any public announcement on this problem, Applecare Europe certainly acts as if it doesnt exist, and im on to my 5th 23" !!!

To say this is a non issue is false. To say that this is limited to a first production run is also false. I love Apple but this is the worse screen i have ever seen. And im not even a professionnal graphics designer. Backlighting is uneven, discolorations abound in every corner and on the sides (blue/pink/yellow hues all over the place) and there is an atrocious burning /shadowing problem (use a light colored background and open / close a finder window, you'll still be able to see the finder window for around 2 minutes). And i wont even mention the vertical blue bar on the left of the Apple logo (well i guess i just did). Ive had a 20' Cinema Display and it was beautiful. A slight unever backlighting (light to dark gradient from left to right) but perfect color balance and one of the best displays ive worked with. Its just a bit small

I have not seen ONE acceptable 23", either on my desk, on display in a store, or online. If someone here thinks he has a perfect display, use a solid medium grey background and post it here.

Cheers

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Since when has Apple acknowledged the problems with the 23" pink / yellow / bruning issues ? Ive never heard any public announcement on this problem, Applecare Europe certainly acts as if it doesnt exist, and im on to my 5th 23" !!!

To say this is a non issue is false. To say that this is limited to a first production run is also false. I love Apple but this is the worse screen i have ever seen. And im not even a professionnal graphics designer. Backlighting is uneven, discolorations abound in every corner and on the sides (blue/pink/yellow hues all over the place) and there is an atrocious burning /shadowing problem (use a light colored background and open / close a finder window, you'll still be able to see the finder window for around 2 minutes). And i wont even mention the vertical blue bar on the left of the Apple logo (well i guess i just did). Ive had a 20' Cinema Display and it was beautiful. A slight unever backlighting (light to dark gradient from left to right) but perfect color balance and one of the best displays ive worked with. Its just a bit small

I have not seen ONE acceptable 23", either on my desk, on display in a store, or online. If someone here thinks he has a perfect display, use a solid medium grey background and post it here.
Cheers

Well then I must have hit the 23" lottery, cause I have none of those problems... and I am very, very picky and have 20/15 vision.

The fact that they've allowed you to return no less than 5 screens in an acknowledge of the problem IMHO. And in my post I said that here will likely come a recall or some kind of "public" acknowledgment but then maybe not.

Who know what % of the screens have this problem. But I was told that it stemmed from a production run with some LG screens that were defective. Just do a google search and you'll find a lot on it.

The way to buy one for now I guess would be to go to the Apple store, or a retailer and have them open it up and plug it in before you buy. Lame I know, but I'm telling you when it works, it s a great screen.

[Badwisdom]

U must have Unix. Any chance you could post some pics ?

Cheers

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
U must have Unix. Any chance you could post some pics ?

Cheers

This is as good as it's gonna get for my cheap Olympus digital under poor lighting... Pardon the quality.. but the real screen looks better in person.. either way, let me know if you see any issues with the screen from these photos, maybe I can learn something.

Bright Blue, max intensity, in a dark room and up close.... if there is a problem, here it's going to show:



Screen shot using 3rd party app to generate a .jpg.. not sure if this is of any use however if it corrects for gamma etc..

[Badwisdom]

Well your screen does look near perfect, but unfortunately it would under these conditions. I think i can spot something but not really sure. The best scenario to check for faults is to use "Solid Medium Grey" desktop at 50% half brightness setting. Try that if you want to be sure.

Cheers

[UnixMac]

Here goes, but I don't have bright natural light here, and the camera lense is not able to capture great detail.. but you'll get the overall gamma level of the screen.

Also, I a posting a standard calibration and my own color calibration which has a brighter white. You can see by my key board color that there is yellowish artificial lighting that I have to have to avoid the flash on the camera so that will tint the picture.


------------------

My color profile..


Standard color profile..


What do you think?

[Luca Rescigno]

Looks pink to me. But it's hard to tell really. I found the pink tint to be quite obvious when actually using the 23" in an Apple store.

[UnixMac]

BTW.. all this trouble and debate... what ever happened to old niko?

[UnixMac]

Here is another little tidbit for you naysayers of the Apple 23"..

In the current (Nov page 166) PC World they rated several 23"/24" LCDs including the HP L2335...

here are the results:

Make: ..... Text Quality / Graphics / DVD Playback

Apple 23" ..... Outstanding / Outstanding / Above average
HP L2335 ..... Very good / Very good / Below average
LG L2320A ..... Fair / Very good / Above average
Philips ..... Very good / very good / Above average
Samsung ..... Outstanding / Outstanding / Below average

They gave the SamSung the Editor Pic because it had a few extra features completely unrealted to usage on a Mac, and be cause of the price, but called the Apple screen the best of the lot.

So, there you have it AGAIN... this is a top grade screen. Just test drive it first and make sure it's not Pink!

[Badwisdom]

Well i can a slight pink on the left. Thats where it usually is. But it seems quite lower than what ive seen on all the ones ive had. Here are photos of the problem :

Pink1
Pink3
Pink4

Now tell me that Aint bad !!

[deboerjo]

So LG has sold Apple defective batteries, defective LCD screens, sold Compaq/HP suicidal CD and DVD drives, how is LG still in business? And more importantly why is Apple buying parts from them? The fact that Apple even considers LG a viable parts supplier really hurts Apple's reputation for reliability in my book.

-Jon

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by Badwisdom:
Well i can a slight pink on the left. Thats where it usually is. But it seems quite lower than what ive seen on all the ones ive had. Here are photos of the problem :

Pink1
Pink3
Pink4

Now tell me that Aint bad !!

I can see the pink... that is totally unacceptable... return it for a new one and or get it fixed by them.. what did they say when they saw it? or did they see it yet?

Clearly there are some defective screens out there..

And remember, Steve Jobs said that apple only accepts the best quality screens from their suppliers and the lesser quality ones are sent to other companies. So hold him to it.

[niko]

I got the cinema 23 and the dual 2.0, shipping on Monday.

Will post any problems

Thanks

[UnixMac]

Please post of you have no problems too... we need positive input as well.

[entelechy]

Mine just arrived and still waiting for the G5...I had no idea about this problem, so hoping for the best - will post results either way.

~C