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IFLY2HIGH · Dec 4, 2004, 08:43 PM

I aquaried a G4 MDD Dual 1.25 Machine. It comes with an 80 gig hard drive. What kinds of larger hard drives can I put in this machine. My current machine is a Quicksilver Dual 1.0 ghz that has the 137 gig limit. With all this talk lately about what to install I'm really not sure. Does this MDD even care what size HD's are? Any recomendations on what ya'll run for big drives?

Thanks!!!

Lateralus · Dec 4, 2004, 09:08 PM

The MDD can handle any size IDE/ATA drive.

SSharon · Dec 5, 2004, 01:52 AM

Lateralus, is that right? I thought only one of the channels could handle any drive whereas the slower one, the ata-66, has a limit. Does the dual 1.25 have the same 2 channels as my dual 1.0? In any case buy another hard drive and just put the 80gb on the second channel since they will run faster if they are on separate channels, in addition less heat will build up since they won't be so close.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 08:15 AM

I found the manuals for it last night scrounging around, is has one ATA 66, and one ATA 100 for Hard Drives. I have a Maxtor 300 GIG ATA Drive, low and behold when I opened up the box and looked on the Hard Drive itself it says PATA 133, so it's the parallel version. I always wondered what that big warning was on the side of there box about needing a seperate controler for macs was about, but no where outside does it say PATA IDE, just ATA. Evidently I will need to look specificly for ATA 100 drives, there are actually some good deals on them and hopefully more with Christmas coming. After reading and doing some reasearch I think I will run dual 60's or 80's as a Raid Setup and then transfer all of my stuff over to them when the time comes.

awcopus · Dec 5, 2004, 08:24 AM

Using Sonnet Tempo card, I run four 250 GB Western Digital ATA-EIDE drives in a dual 1.42 (FW800) MDD machine. The card is affordable and reliable and these drives are excellent performers (quiet and fast). Check them out at newegg.com or hypermicro.com. To evaluate hard drives and discuss possibilities with others, go to storagereview.com.

My advice is to spend a little extra money for bigger drives. You will use the space eventually. Save yourself the regret tomorrow of going small today.

Good luck.

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by IFLY2HIGH:
I found the manuals for it last night scrounging around, is has one ATA 66, and one ATA 100 for Hard Drives. I have a Maxtor 300 GIG ATA Drive, low and behold when I opened up the box and looked on the Hard Drive itself it says PATA 133, so it's the parallel version. I always wondered what that big warning was on the side of there box about needing a seperate controler for macs was about, but no where outside does it say PATA IDE, just ATA. Evidently I will need to look specificly for ATA 100 drives, there are actually some good deals on them and hopefully more with Christmas coming. After reading and doing some reasearch I think I will run dual 60's or 80's as a Raid Setup and then transfer all of my stuff over to them when the time comes.

Plug the drive in and turn on the machine. It'll work.

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by SSharon:
Lateralus, is that right? I thought only one of the channels could handle any drive whereas the slower one, the ata-66, has a limit. Does the dual 1.25 have the same 2 channels as my dual 1.0? In any case buy another hard drive and just put the 80gb on the second channel since they will run faster if they are on separate channels, in addition less heat will build up since they won't be so close.

Both controllers have 48-bit LBA. So they are both capable of reading high capacity drives.

The thought that ATA-100 and up are required for large capacity drives is a misconception. It just so happens that 48-bit LBAs became prevalent around the time that ATA-100/133 were introduced. The ATA speed only controls the speed at which the drive is capable of operating. It is the LBA that determines the capacity.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 12:30 PM

Okay I'll give it a shot...

David Lee · Dec 5, 2004, 12:36 PM

You said "Evidently I will need to look specificly for ATA 100 drives." However, that is not quite accurate. You can use a ATA 133 drive and it will automattically adjust to the ATA 100 bus. Be sure to initialize the drive on that bus, so the drive can get set up correctly. All ATA drives are backward compatible with slower ATA speeds, i.e., you can use an ATA 100 drive on an ATA 66 bus, but not an ATA 66 drive on an ATA 100 bus.
Ask someone better informed if you need more details, but as someone here said, that drive will work just fine on that machine. (cross your fingers, nothing is certain nowadays - just joking)
Good luck

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 12:44 PM

My bigest conern is the drive says:

DiamondMax 10 300 GB PATA 133 HD

I've been out of the loop for some time in buying hard drives, and never ran across this PATA stuff until now and thus taking concern cause nothing I see on my machine says this PATA stuff, but maybee it no big deal?

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 12:47 PM

It's not a big deal. The PATA designation was never necessary because all that existed was PATA. Now there is SATA.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 03:50 PM

I installed it and she finds all 300 gigs of it. Very nice to know, I tried it in my old quicksilver with the ATA 100 card I have and it only sees up to it's 137 gig limit, so I guess I'll be needed a new card for that machine.

Thanks for hanging in there with me and helping me out...

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 04:18 PM

Take the ATA card out.

800MHz, 933MHz and Dual 1GHz QuickSilvers have 48-bit LBAs as well. The card you're using apparently does not.

Just hook the drive to the QuickSilver's onboard ATA and you'll see the full capacity as well.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 06:09 PM

Nope sorry on that one, still only says 137 gigs on the main controller on the Dual 1.0 QS...

As I searched around, some did and some didn't, I think they diferentate on the year, mine is a 2001 model if that helps.

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 06:22 PM

Odd, must be an early run machine. Did you reformat it?

My 933 took high capacity drives fine, as does my friend's.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 5, 2004, 07:51 PM

The Machine was like one of the first few revs when they came out with the QS model, think it was the mid range model, I got it on closeout when the newer models came around.

I havn't formated the drive yet, it's still in the state of new. Prolly just get a card for the ol QS then since it's gona be use as a semi-server for the house.

Lateralus · Dec 5, 2004, 09:19 PM

Actually, the Dual 1GHz was the high-end model of the second and last revision. Which is why it should have the 48-bit LBA.

You might wanna initialize that drive and see how much of it shows up in the QuickSilver...

Al G · Dec 6, 2004, 12:54 PM

Generally, the 2002 Quicksilvers have 48-LBA support, but it's not documented as such by Apple because it only works in OS X. If you boot in OS 9, part of the drive won't show up. Also, I suppose since it's not officially supported by Apple, there's a chance that some machines (although I haven't actually heard of any yet) use a different version of the controller and wouldn't even work in OS X.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 6, 2004, 06:46 PM

This one should be the model before the model before the MDD's, how many revs did the QS have? If it did have 2 then this is rev 1 cause I got it when the newer versions of the QS came out, then the MDD's arrived if I have my history correct. Any way I can determine the rev version of the machine? Anything on the mobo iteself to look for?

Upon Al G's input, I will reinstall the drive into the QS. When I had it in there, the old bootup drive I installed was in fact OS 9. I have since replaced it with Panther, maybe that will make the difference...

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 6, 2004, 07:30 PM

Well al be da*m, boot into OSX and walla, all 300 gigs show up. So I guess this 137 limit is a limit of the OS not Hardware like I've read so much about?

Well maybe not, as I sit here and type this the install of panther on the drive is failing now.

Hum...

awcopus · Dec 6, 2004, 10:03 PM

Sonnet Tempo ATA 133. Cheap, does the trick, get it, move on.

Lateralus · Dec 6, 2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by IFLY2HIGH:
This one should be the model before the model before the MDD's, how many revs did the QS have? If it did have 2 then this is rev 1 cause I got it when the newer versions of the QS came out, then the MDD's arrived if I have my history correct. Any way I can determine the rev version of the machine? Anything on the mobo iteself to look for?

As I have already said, your QuickSilver is a Revision 2. The Dual 1GHz was the high-end model of the second and final QuickSilver revision.

Lateralus · Dec 6, 2004, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by IFLY2HIGH:
So I guess this 137 limit is a limit of the OS not Hardware like I've read so much about?

No.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 6, 2004, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Lateralus:
No.

Hum, then why does it only show 137 in os 9 and 300 in osx?

Got it all loaded up anyway, and it's working like a champ now.

Lateralus · Dec 6, 2004, 11:38 PM

OS 9 will also only recognize 1.5GBs of RAM in Sawtooth and Gigabit Ethernet G4 Power Macs, whereas OS X will recognize 2GBs.

OS 9 is just weird.

IFLY2HIGH · Dec 7, 2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Lateralus:
OS 9 will also only recognize 1.5GBs of RAM in Sawtooth and Gigabit Ethernet G4 Power Macs, whereas OS X will recognize 2GBs.

OS 9 is just weird.

Sounds like software to me lol...

tooki · Dec 11, 2004, 11:33 AM

48-bit LBA is a hardware thing. If the hardware doesn't support it, it will not work, period.
The OS also has to support 48-bit LBA. If the OS doesn't support it, it won't work, either.

Mac OS 9 doesn't know how to do 48-bit LBA, so even on Macs with 48-bit LBA, it won't work.

Mac OS X does know how to use 48-bit LBA, so on Macs that have 48-bit LBA, it can use the entire drive.

48-bit LBA is, as Lateralus said, independent of the speed of the controller. It was coincidental that it was during the time of ATA/66 that 48-bit LBA debuted. ATA/100 requires 48-bit LBA, but ATA/66 can have it as well.

Finally, just a comment: ATA/133 is not an official standard. Maxtor created it itself, but it was never ratified as a standard because no hard drive ever made so far is hampered by ATA/100. That's why some hard drive manufacturers (like Seagate and Western Digital) are sticking with the official standards, and keep making ATA/100, while others took a very long time to switch to ATA/133 (like HGST). It's also why Apple never used ATA/133, and simply jumped to SATA, which is an official standard.

took

Al G · Dec 11, 2004, 01:20 PM

I agree with almost everything except it's not quite that simple when it comes to OS 9 and 48-bit LBA. On machines that officially support 48-bit LBA, i.e. MDDs, OS 9 works with big drives, however they must first be formatted in OS X. On pre-MDD machines, OS 9 just won't work with big drives.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86178

The 2002 Quicksilvers are in some weird middle ground; 48-LBA works in OS X but not in OS 9.