[rslifka]

iPod user of about 1.5 years jonesing for a 20" iMac after watching my roommate convert (20+ years PC to a dual g5 with 23" display).

My only computer is my HP notebook - Centrino-based 1.4Ghz w/512MB. 100% of what I do: Photoshop my digital pics (http://www.allaboutbalance.com/photography/), email, web, sync my iPod with downloaded ITMS stuff. Pretty much perfect for a mac, no?

I'm curious what the iMac will feel like in terms of performance. I'm not expecting it to be a screamer, but when I plunk down $2k+ I like to feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

Thanks,

Rob

[papplegate]

Originally posted by rslifka:
iPod user of about 1.5 years jonesing for a 20" iMac after watching my roommate convert (20+ years PC to a dual g5 with 23" display).

My only computer is my HP notebook - Centrino-based 1.4Ghz w/512MB. 100% of what I do: Photoshop my digital pics (http://www.allaboutbalance.com/photography/), email, web, sync my iPod with downloaded ITMS stuff. Pretty much perfect for a mac, no?

I'm curious what the iMac will feel like in terms of performance. I'm not expecting it to be a screamer, but when I plunk down $2k+ I like to feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

Thanks,

Rob

I would think it would suit you very well. It is hard to compare Apples to Oranges, no pun intended. I think I have read the G5, would be equivilant to a P4 . Someone else will jump in with better data I am sure. I just converted to an iMac 20'' from a Gateway( P4, 1.4 Ghz) and it is a lot faster. Hope that helps some. Happy Holidays to all :-)

[rslifka]

Originally posted by papplegate:
I would think it would suit you very well. It is hard to compare Apples to Oranges, no pun intended. I think I have read the G5, would be equivilant to a P4 . Someone else will jump in with better data I am sure. I just converted to an iMac 20'' from a Gateway( P4, 1.4 Ghz) and it is a lot faster. Hope that helps some. Happy Holidays to all :-)

Thanks, that does help! My notebook is a P4 1.4, but in Centrino talk, that means it's more like a P4 ~2.2, so if you were coming from your Dell 1.4 are looking at a ~1.8x speed boost. In the Sudhian review (http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=632) he roughly compares it to a P4 2.6 / AMD 2600, but with caveats.

I've also read that even though the speeds might be comparable in benchmark numbers, the Mac "feels" faster. I.e. multitasking is much smoother and the machine never feels unresponsive.

The Mac really does seem like a perfect fit. I purposefully ditched my PC tower for this notebook so I would be forced to not play games. All I do now is exactly what the Mac seems designed for - Photoshop and day-to-day use.

Anyone else who routinely uses both platforms care to comment on relative performance?

Rob

[papplegate]

Originally posted by rslifka:
Thanks, that does help! My notebook is a P4 1.4, but in Centrino talk, that means it's more like a P4 ~2.2, so if you were coming from your Dell 1.4 are looking at a ~1.8x speed boost. In the Sudhian review (http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=632) he roughly compares it to a P4 2.6 / AMD 2600, but with caveats.

I've also read that even though the speeds might be comparable in benchmark numbers, the Mac "feels" faster. I.e. multitasking is much smoother and the machine never feels unresponsive.

The Mac really does seem like a perfect fit. I purposefully ditched my PC tower for this notebook so I would be forced to not play games. All I do now is exactly what the Mac seems designed for - Photoshop and day-to-day use.

Anyone else who routinely uses both platforms care to comment on relative performance?

Rob

One thing you will need is memory. The stock 256MB is not enough. I think you should at the very least get another 256MB. If you can afford it, max it out with 2GB. I brought 2 GB from Newegg(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...030&depa=1) and paid around $160 per GB, not a bad deal at all. Lots of memory helps a lot :-)

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by rslifka:
I've also read that even though the speeds might be comparable in benchmark numbers, the Mac "feels" faster. I.e. multitasking is much smoother and the machine never feels unresponsive.[/B]

That's certainly not always true.

The G5 processor, when running typical applications, is roughly comparable to an Athlon64 or a Centrino at the same clock speed. Note that an Athlon64 "3000+" model is not, in fact 3GHz, the "3000+" indicates performance comparable to a 3GHz Pentium 4. In fact, an Athlon64 3000+ is 1.8GHz/1MB or 2.0GHz/512k (speed/cache size). As a general rule, multiplying G5 clock speeds by 3/2 or 5/3 (1.5 or 1.667) gets you a roughly equivalent Pentium 4 speed.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
That's certainly not always true.

The G5 processor, when running typical applications, is roughly comparable to an Athlon64 or a Centrino at the same clock speed. Note that an Athlon64 "3000+" model is not, in fact 3GHz, the "3000+" indicates performance comparable to a 3GHz Pentium 4. In fact, an Athlon64 3000+ is 1.8GHz/1MB or 2.0GHz/512k (speed/cache size). As a general rule, multiplying G5 clock speeds by 3/2 or 5/3 (1.5 or 1.667) gets you a roughly equivalent Pentium 4 speed.

Thanks for the explanation! I stopped following all of this stuff a few years ago, after immersing myself in it for probably 20+ years. Now I'm sick of having to know these things

Ok... so if they're comparable, then the 20" iMac's 1.8GHz ~= AMD64 3000+? If that's the case, I certainly don't have any performance concerns!

Rob

[rslifka]

Originally posted by papplegate:
One thing you will need is memory. The stock 256MB is not enough. I think you should at the very least get another 256MB. If you can afford it, max it out with 2GB. I brought 2 GB from Newegg(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...030&depa=1) and paid around $160 per GB, not a bad deal at all. Lots of memory helps a lot :-)

Oh, I definitely hear that loud and clear. I'm a Photoshop user so you don't have to tell me twice

Am I correct in that Bluetooh and Wireless can be added after-the-fact as well?

Rob

[mbryda]

Originally posted by rslifka:

My only computer is my HP notebook - Centrino-based 1.4Ghz w/512MB. 100% of what I do: Photoshop my digital pics (http://www.allaboutbalance.com/photography/), email, web, sync my iPod with downloaded ITMS stuff. Pretty much perfect for a mac, no?

I'm curious what the iMac will feel like in terms of performance. I'm not expecting it to be a screamer, but when I plunk down $2k+ I like to feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

I do just about all that + Video/DVD editing on my G4/800 iMac and it's pretty speedy. I'd say that machine is about a 1.5-2Ghz P4, judging by comparing that to my work supplied IBM laptop.

About the only thing that somewhat bogs down is DVD Editing and converting RAW files from my 10D.

Just, whatever you do, get lots of RAM (but not from Apple) as OSX like XP loves to have RAM. I have 512MB on my iMac and that's a good place to start. Sometime soon I'll probably upgrade that to 768MB.

[tooki]

Originally posted by rslifka:
Am I correct in that Bluetooh and Wireless can be added after-the-fact as well?

You can only get the internal Bluetooth module added at the factory -- it's not available as an aftermarket part. The AirPort (802.11) card, on the other hand, can be added at any time.

If you don't get the internal Bluetooth module, the D-Link DBT-120 (updated with Apple's firmware) is functionally identical -- it just uses up a USB port.

tooki

[rslifka]

Hmm... Well it sounds like I really shouldn't have any performance concerns. I only do RAW conversion for the pictures I keep from each shoot which means 10 or so out of a few hundred, so that's not an issue for me. Still going to need all that RAM though for Photoshop

I wanted to buy from Amazon because they're running $100 off through January 26th. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a model there with Bluetooth installed and I'd really prefer if it was built-in.

Thanks a lot for the responses guys! More are always appreciated

Rob

[tooki]

Internal Bluetooth is only available as a build-to-order option from Apple. None of the stock configurations include it.

tooki

[rslifka]

Originally posted by tooki:
Internal Bluetooth is only available as a build-to-order option from Apple. None of the stock configurations include it.

tooki

Get this! I called Apple. They looked up the $100 rebate at Amazon while I was on the phone and said they'd throw in some stuff for free so that I'd buy from them. It's not exactly price matching but it's close enough considering I really would prefer the internal bluethooth.

Still have to see if it's cheaper than my student discount + CA sales tax.

Rob

[csharpie]

Originally posted by rslifka:
Get this! I called Apple. They looked up the $100 rebate at Amazon while I was on the phone and said they'd throw in some stuff for free so that I'd buy from them. It's not exactly price matching but it's close enough considering I really would prefer the internal bluethooth.

Still have to see if it's cheaper than my student discount + CA sales tax.

Rob

Hi Rob,

I got this deal on Amazon a couple days ago...I too wanted bluetooth built in, but after reading about some people having problems with their bluetooth keyboard and mouse not responding I decided it would be best to get the DLINK one in the future. I plan to add more memory and an airport extreme card. I have been having great fun playing with my new IMAC. I've been a PC user for 20 years and decided to make the switch so far I have no regrets. Good luck with your decision. BTW, nice pics on your web page, I enjoyed browsing through them.

Chris

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
That's certainly not always true.

The G5 processor, when running typical applications, is roughly comparable to an Athlon64 or a Centrino at the same clock speed. Note that an Athlon64 "3000+" model is not, in fact 3GHz, the "3000+" indicates performance comparable to a 3GHz Pentium 4. In fact, an Athlon64 3000+ is 1.8GHz/1MB or 2.0GHz/512k (speed/cache size). As a general rule, multiplying G5 clock speeds by 3/2 or 5/3 (1.5 or 1.667) gets you a roughly equivalent Pentium 4 speed.

This post is very accurate. Although my one complaint is the g5 p4 clock speed conversion, it would be much easier to say 1.5 and 1.666...

[SSharon]

Since no one has mentioned it so far I guess I will chime in here for a second and point out that photoshop is multiprocessor aware. The imac is a great computer, I just set one up for my dad this past weekend, but don't limit yourself if you really want lots of ram power. And as said many times, get lots of ram as that will help a ton. welcome to mac, good luck.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by csharpie:
Hi Rob,

I got this deal on Amazon a couple days ago...I too wanted bluetooth built in, but after reading about some people having problems with their bluetooth keyboard and mouse not responding I decided it would be best to get the DLINK one in the future. I plan to add more memory and an airport extreme card. I have been having great fun playing with my new IMAC. I've been a PC user for 20 years and decided to make the switch so far I have no regrets. Good luck with your decision. BTW, nice pics on your web page, I enjoyed browsing through them.

Chris

Thanks for the kind words Chris!

And for the heads up on the bluetooth issue. A seach on these forums settles that one. I've decided on buying it from Amazon although unfortunately it does not quality for free shipping

Now to find the best deal on some 1GB DIMMs!

Rob

[PBG4 User]

Originally posted by rslifka:
Thanks for the kind words Chris!

And for the heads up on the bluetooth issue. A seach on these forums settles that one. I've decided on buying it from Amazon although unfortunately it does not quality for free shipping

Now to find the best deal on some 1GB DIMMs!

Rob

The best deal on 1GB DIMMs is probably the one from newegg.com listed earlier by papplegate. I put 2x1GB in my 20" iMac back in September and everything's running great. Probably the most strenuous use my machine gets is converting my Canon 300D's RAW files in Photoshop CS, and that happens in a jiffy (way way way faster than Canon's software). With 2GB RAM I can easily work with 10-20 converted RAW files open at a time with no slowdown in operation.

I had a 38 minute video once I finished editing it in iMovie. Brought it over to iDVD, added an opening screen menu and burned to DVD. The whole conversion to MPEG-2 plus burning to DVD took about 34 minutes, which is faster than real time.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by PBG4 User:
The best deal on 1GB DIMMs is probably the one from newegg.com listed earlier by papplegate. I put 2x1GB in my 20" iMac back in September and everything's running great. Probably the most strenuous use my machine gets is converting my Canon 300D's RAW files in Photoshop CS, and that happens in a jiffy (way way way faster than Canon's software). With 2GB RAM I can easily work with 10-20 converted RAW files open at a time with no slowdown in operation.

I had a 38 minute video once I finished editing it in iMovie. Brought it over to iDVD, added an opening screen menu and burned to DVD. The whole conversion to MPEG-2 plus burning to DVD took about 34 minutes, which is faster than real time.

That certainly looks to be the best deal! Several Mac users comments in the NewEgg review section there, and here in the macnn forums as well. I live in Cali, so I'll be paying sales tax on NewEgg purchases. Maybe I can find someone out of state...

Rob

[ooninay]

I use both Mac and PC daily. My Mac (until just today) was a 17" G4 PowerBook 1.5GHz. Today I picked up a 20" iMac G5. My PC is a Dell P4 2.6 GHz.

My PC feels faster than my PowerBook in almost everything, but especially the UI: window dragging, scrolling, etc., are much more responsive on the PC. Having said that, I still like my PowerBook a lot more than the PC. It may not feel as fast as the Dell, but that doesn't mean it feels "slow". Just not lightning fast like the PC. And everything just works, you know, just the way Macs do.

But this new iMac--wow! I didn't expect this much of a performance improvement, especially after reading benchmarks that said they weren't all that much faster than the PowerBook I already had. But this is the first Mac I've had that feels about as fast as my PC, and of course being an Apple eveything from the hardware to the software is so much more beautiful. Anyway, I digress. I don't even have any extra memory in it yet (it's on order), and I'm amazed at how well it's working with only 256 MB. Of course, I'm being careful not to open too many programs at once. Anyway, if you've got a 1.6 GHz laptop I think you'll be very pleased with the performance of the G5 iMac, but don't skimp on the memory. And welcome to the sublime world of Macs!

[JarheadJAG]

Some follow-on Q's:

How would the imac G5 compare to a dell 8400 (3.2Ghz) for all-around stuff? I have no experience with Macs, but I'm drawn to the video capabilities. I just bought a Sony dcr-pc350 DV cam, and want to mess around with edits and sending DVDs of the new baby to family, etc.

I'd also like to play some games (baby thing has me feeling old-must recapture my long-dormant Atari spirit), and want max compatibility with the camera and its memory stick stuff.

The screen/all-in-one thing is sexy, and as we don't have alot of space here in Japan, it's appealing to think that there will be less crap on my desk.

It seems like I'll have to spend more on memory and some other upgrades that will push me over the $2K mark for what I could get from Dell at about $1550.

Advice and comments appreciated. Nice board.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
Some follow-on Q's:

How would the imac G5 compare to a dell 8400 (3.2Ghz) for all-around stuff? I have no experience with Macs, but I'm drawn to the video capabilities. I just bought a Sony dcr-pc350 DV cam, and want to mess around with edits and sending DVDs of the new baby to family, etc.

I'd also like to play some games (baby thing has me feeling old-must recapture my long-dormant Atari spirit), and want max compatibility with the camera and its memory stick stuff.

The screen/all-in-one thing is sexy, and as we don't have alot of space here in Japan, it's appealing to think that there will be less crap on my desk.

It seems like I'll have to spend more on memory and some other upgrades that will push me over the $2K mark for what I could get from Dell at about $1550.

Advice and comments appreciated. Nice board.

My roommmate is very much into video editing and really only got serious about it when he bought his PowerMac. To quote him, what it took several tools to do on the PC, he can do in one (iDVD would probably be fine for you, but there's always Final Cut). There is no way on Earth he would go back to his PC for what he does.

Dell? Ugh... their computers are cheap because they are cheap. We use Dell laptops at work. They feel soooo cheap. All creaky and squeaky. The Kia/Hyundais of computers as far as I'm concerned.

Considering you get a 20" Apple-quality LCD (regular price $1299) and a computer for $1899... it's like paying $600 for a computer. Those $599 Dells they advertise on TV certainly do not come with a kick-ass monitor.

Rob

[JarheadJAG]

It comes with a 19" flat panel. Other features I'm trying to balance are the DVD burner, which is faster than the iMac, the additional memory (1Gb, vice the 256Mb on the iMac), and the game capability (not a big factor, but something that's on my list).

We also use Dell workstations, and I've got a Dell laptop for work trips. It ain't sculpture, but it gets the job done. I'm just concerned that I would have to spend alot more on the Apple to bring it up to the same performance level as the dell (add memory, for instance).

The clock speed comparison done on another thread in this forum talked about a conversoin factor of about 1.5-->1.666, which would place the street speed of the G5 at about 2.8, still short of the Dell. Thoughts on this?

Thanks again for the guidance.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
It comes with a 19" flat panel. Other features I'm trying to balance are the DVD burner, which is faster than the iMac, the additional memory (1Gb, vice the 256Mb on the iMac), and the game capability (not a big factor, but something that's on my list).

We also use Dell workstations, and I've got a Dell laptop for work trips. It ain't sculpture, but it gets the job done. I'm just concerned that I would have to spend alot more on the Apple to bring it up to the same performance level as the dell (add memory, for instance).

The clock speed comparison done on another thread in this forum talked about a conversoin factor of about 1.5-->1.666, which would place the street speed of the G5 at about 2.8, still short of the Dell. Thoughts on this?

Thanks again for the guidance.

Comparing the clock speed across two very different platforms (32-bit v. 64-bit, different OSs, etc.) is not a terrific basis for comparison. Even AMD, still an x86 chip, stopped doing it years ago. I suggest a trip to your local apple store to see how the two compare. You already know how the Dell feels from work.

Over the course of ownership (probably 2-3 years for this PC), that few hundred dollars comes out to a couple of dollars a month.

But if price is your only grounds for comparison and you're happy with cheap hardware so long as it works, then by all means go out and get the Dell. PCs are cheap because every PC can do the same thing any other PC can do, so the only place they compete is price. What killed Netscape Navigator? They never came out and said why they were charging for a browser while MS was giving one away. They essentially did the same things.

(1) How will you make those home movies with your Dell? What movie and DVD creation software ship with the Dell? Microsoft Movie Maker? Again, cheap as hell, but it might get the job done. And that Dell does not ship with DVD creation software. As far as I can tell from Dell page, it ships with only WordPerfect. This probably means you get trial versions of Office, MS Money, etc. but certainly no content creation or management software.

(2) Same goes for those photos you want to organize and work on. iPhoto ships as part of the iLife suite with the iMac. There is nothing included with the Dell.

(3) Have you compared the I/Os? The Sony you have supports USB (2.0 I assume!), so your need for FireWire ports is probably pretty slim. Just to keep in mind that the iMac ships with two FireWire 400 ports, something to consider if you end up with a device that only supports it. I forget... can you recharge via USB?

There are more but I've got to get to work. Don't think about price and hardware alone when comparing apples to oranges. You've only lived in PC land so hardware comparisons are all you're used to. Think about the complete package.

Rob

[mitchell_pgh]

I would visit a local Apple store. Play with the applications you use the most.

If you are a speed freak, you probably won't be completely happy with a Mac. I'm more of a productivity/no virus/great GUI freak so I'm willing to sacrifice a few clock cycles or FPS.

I can't stress enough... don't buy a Mac if you plan on only playing games.

If you plan on using your computer as a computer... you know... write papers, music, email, chat, video, email, web/print design, research, spreadsheet... then I can't recommend the Mac enough.

I play games from time to time... but it's probably less then 1% of the time spend on my computer.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would visit a local Apple store. Play with the applications you use the most.

If you are a speed freak, you probably won't be completely happy with a Mac. I'm more of a productivity/no virus/great GUI freak so I'm willing to sacrifice a few clock cycles or FPS.

I can't stress enough... don't buy a Mac if you plan on only playing games.

If you plan on using your computer as a computer... you know... write papers, music, email, chat, video, email, web/print design, research, spreadsheet... then I can't recommend the Mac enough.

I play games from time to time... but it's probably less then 1% of the time spend on my computer.

I think you've gotten it quite right here, and I think there are gamers (myself included) who thought for the longest time gaming was what they did most. It turns out I'm only really playing 2-3 games a year and last year, every one of those games was also available on the Mac.

sigh... iMac sitting in a UPS center 1.5 hours from here. It got there yesterday morning and hasn't moved an inch. I guess I will be getting it Wednesday after all

Rob

[pliny]

In terms of processor speed, the 1.8 G5 in the iMac is roughly equivalent to the 3.0 ghz Pentium 4.

Depending on the tests done to measure, the G5 will be faster, much faster; at others the P4 will be faster, but in the realm of 1/2 to 1 second only!

Apple has done some tests you can look at here; there are some other tests discussed in this thread

[deboerjo]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
The clock speed comparison done on another thread in this forum talked about a conversoin factor of about 1.5-->1.666, which would place the street speed of the G5 at about 2.8, still short of the Dell. Thoughts on this?

The conversion factor puts it at around 2.7-3.0; remember that these are very rough ballpark figures, not a hard-and-fast equation. Compared with a Dell 3.2 it's going to be faster sometimes and slower sometimes, on average, probably a wee slower depending on what you're doing. Either way, you're only going to notice the difference if you sit there with a stopwatch.

[JarheadJAG]

OK, seriously. I looked up those links. Talk about your ass-bleeding detail.

You guys all have mad knowledge, and I really appreciate your sharing it with me. I feel like a little kid being held by the hand in order to more closely monitor his comprehension of the role of constitutional jurisprudence in international law. Jeez.

I'm still looking. There seems to be some agreement that the P4 is, under some circumstances and for certain tasks, faster. For anything involving rendering, it's Mac. But I can almost guarantee that I will not render a single photo or compose anything (except home movies, which I either can do, or will be able to do very soon with Microskank software). BTW, I threw in the Microsoft bashing as a gesture of goodwill for your patience. Made that one up on the fly.

As it stands, it looks like the P4 is substantially faster than the iMac G5; I'd have to build up the Mac with memory (to 1GB), a multi-card reader, and other peripherals to keep up with the P4 (in, for example, an HP photosmart multimedia PC w/550 P4@3.4GHz, 250GB serial ATA HDD @7200 RPM, 1GB SDRAM, removable HDD bay, TV tuner, FM tuner, multicard reader, 19" LCD, buttload of other stuff, all for around $1950.) The dual G5 puts me well into the $2,400 range for similar performance.

Feel free to correct away if this is not right. Thanks again for the hand-holding.

[JarheadJAG]

Oh yeah-trust me, I'd love nothing more than to go to an Apple store and kick the tires. But I'm in Japan, so there you go.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
OK, seriously. I looked up those links. Talk about your ass-bleeding detail.

You guys all have mad knowledge, and I really appreciate your sharing it with me. I feel like a little kid being held by the hand in order to more closely monitor his comprehension of the role of constitutional jurisprudence in international law. Jeez.

I'm still looking. There seems to be some agreement that the P4 is, under some circumstances and for certain tasks, faster. For anything involving rendering, it's Mac. But I can almost guarantee that I will not render a single photo or compose anything (except home movies, which I either can do, or will be able to do very soon with Microskank software). BTW, I threw in the Microsoft bashing as a gesture of goodwill for your patience. Made that one up on the fly.

As it stands, it looks like the P4 is substantially faster than the iMac G5; I'd have to build up the Mac with memory (to 1GB), a multi-card reader, and other peripherals to keep up with the P4 (in, for example, an HP photosmart multimedia PC w/550 P4@3.4GHz, 250GB serial ATA HDD @7200 RPM, 1GB SDRAM, removable HDD bay, TV tuner, FM tuner, multicard reader, 19" LCD, buttload of other stuff, all for around $1950.) The dual G5 puts me well into the $2,400 range for similar performance.

Feel free to correct away if this is not right. Thanks again for the hand-holding.

IMHO you are missing the whole point of buying a Mac. If you are looking for a raw speed to financial expenditure dream machine, go buy a Wal-Mart Linux box.

The reason I consistently buy Macintosh is the beautiful AND CONSISTENT GUI, the rock solid Operating System, and the amazing Software --> Operating System --> Hardware integration. I'll be the first to admit that I could buy a Dell/HP box for much less... but in the end, my Mac makes me more productive, more creative and almost happy that I'm forced to use it for hours a day. It's one of those "If you don't use a Mac, you just won't get it" situations.

I never feel that way when using Windows

[rslifka]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
Oh yeah-trust me, I'd love nothing more than to go to an Apple store and kick the tires. But I'm in Japan, so there you go.

Apple’s First Retail Store in Japan Opens in Tokyo This Sunday
- November 2003

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/nov/27ginza.html

Rob

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by deboerjo:
The G5 processor, when running typical applications, is roughly comparable to an Athlon64 or a Centrino at the same clock speed. Note that an Athlon64 "3000+" model is not, in fact 3GHz, the "3000+" indicates performance comparable to a 3GHz Pentium 4. In fact, an Athlon64 3000+ is 1.8GHz/1MB or 2.0GHz/512k (speed/cache size). As a general rule, multiplying G5 clock speeds by 3/2 or 5/3 (1.5 or 1.667) gets you a roughly equivalent Pentium 4 speed.

That is VERY optimistic. Most benchmarks prove that to be false. I'd guess that 1.8 GHz G5 roughly is competitive with a 2.4 GHz P4. On some benches it's faster than that, but on others it's slower. ie. It's not hugely fast compared to the x86 stuff on average.

However, the iMac G5 design is excellent, with a small sleek form factor, and of course it has a nicer OS.

Originally posted by ooninay:
I use both Mac and PC daily. My Mac (until just today) was a 17" G4 PowerBook 1.5GHz. Today I picked up a 20" iMac G5. My PC is a Dell P4 2.6 GHz.

My PC feels faster than my PowerBook in almost everything, but especially the UI: window dragging, scrolling, etc., are much more responsive on the PC. Having said that, I still like my PowerBook a lot more than the PC. It may not feel as fast as the Dell, but that doesn't mean it feels "slow". Just not lightning fast like the PC. And everything just works, you know, just the way Macs do.

But this new iMac--wow! I didn't expect this much of a performance improvement, especially after reading benchmarks that said they weren't all that much faster than the PowerBook I already had. But this is the first Mac I've had that feels about as fast as my PC, and of course being an Apple eveything from the hardware to the software is so much more beautiful. Anyway, I digress. I don't even have any extra memory in it yet (it's on order), and I'm amazed at how well it's working with only 256 MB. Of course, I'm being careful not to open too many programs at once. Anyway, if you've got a 1.6 GHz laptop I think you'll be very pleased with the performance of the G5 iMac, but don't skimp on the memory. And welcome to the sublime world of Macs!

Part of that is the hard drive. Of course an iMac G5 1.6 or 1.8 desktop is going to feel faster than a PowerBook 1.5.

[mbryda]

If you're thinking PC, ditch the P4 and go with an Athlon based solution. They are superior to the P4 in just about every way and will save you a little $.

That being said, I'd go with a Mac. The speed difference is neglegible and the quality and usability is heads and shoulders above Windows.

[rslifka]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
IMHO you are missing the whole point of buying a Mac. If you are looking for a raw speed to financial expenditure dream machine, go buy a Wal-Mart Linux box.

The reason I consistently buy Macintosh is the beautiful AND CONSISTENT GUI, the rock solid Operating System, and the amazing Software --> Operating System --> Hardware integration. I'll be the first to admit that I could buy a Dell/HP box for much less... but in the end, my Mac makes me more productive, more creative and almost happy that I'm forced to use it for hours a day. It's one of those "If you don't use a Mac, you just won't get it" situations.

I never feel that way when using Windows

Precisely. I've had the same conversation with non-iPod owners about a million times. Why on Earth does the iPod own 90% of the hard-disk-based MP3 player market? You get less (space) for much more (money), so something is clearly out of whack.

You're paying more for styling and a great interface. It's why everyone is re-engineering their devices to look and feel like the iPod.

Same goes for the iMac. You're paying more for sleek styling, a better OS that's easier to use (the last time Windows got a significant facelift with new UI features was between 3.1 and Windows 95, OSX gets them every year), rock solid stability and integration, and a kick-ass software suite for free that does everything you would have to pay extra for with that Dell.

JAG, it's a value call, just like you said. If you don't value those things, then by all means, get a PC. It's like you're sticking around to hear us say, "The iMac is a slow piece of **** compared to the P4 you're looking at." Speed is only one dimension of the comparison, but it seems that it's the ONLY dimension you care about.

You should not buy a Mac. Period.

Rob

[mitchell_pgh]

Rob,

My Mac bashing friend just purchased an iPod (it's his third MP3 player).

He basically said that he now understands the phrase "It Just Works" that I've been saying for years.

[JarheadJAG]

Rob, you make a good point. Speed is cool if you can make it work for you. If not, it isn't that speedy. And given my inexperience with editing software, it isn't a bad idea to keep it simple.

I'll be in Okinawa next week, and they have a much larger PX there. That store stocks many models of P4 and some Mac machines; I should be able to test drive something there.

As for the slow piece of $%^&, I think you;re referring to my machine (1999 Gateway PII 400MHz with some kind of spectacular viruses); whatever machine I buy will be stinkin' light years ahead of this stack of feces.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by JarheadJAG:
Rob, you make a good point. Speed is cool if you can make it work for you. If not, it isn't that speedy. And given my inexperience with editing software, it isn't a bad idea to keep it simple.

You have basically summed up most of the issues my PC friends have. They start a new project and are always confronted by Windows roadblocks.

It's rather sad when I create a little video using iMovie (not a big deal) and they are in awe of how I did it.

The trick is... I'm consistent with my Mac.