[rnwjr]

I am looking to switch as a result of the Mac Mini, but am concerned about how the upgrade from 10.3 to 10.4 will go... I am intending to install Virtual PC 7.0 and am expecting upgrade problems just like with Windows. I am not sure of this and was wondering what some Mac users felt. Also if we buy the Mini on 1/22 will we be eligible for a free upgrade to 10.4 or will we most likely have to fork over the $129.00... Also will the Mini then start shipping with 10.4 after it is released? Not sure of the requirements and not sure if I should wait... I really want this switch to go well as I have had great experiences with my iPod's......

Thanks in advance...
-Bob

[kikkoman]

Apple said nothing about upgrading early Mac mini buyers to Tiger for free so I would wait until Tiger is shipping on them. FWIW all my past OS X upgrades have trouble free for the most part.

[vmarks]

the 10.3 to 10.4 upgrade will be pretty smooth. The key to making it near-problem free is to use what's called in the 10.3 install "Archive and Install" which creates a backup of your old system and installs a fresh new one. It's a clean install that keeps all your applications, preferences, etc. Anything odd you find that it doesn't keep would be in the old system folder which is preserved for you until you choose to delete it.

Go for the Mac Mini. While none of us have really had any time to work with it substantially, I feel comfortable recommending it to you.

Apple's policy on upgrading to new releases of OS X varies with each release and is unpredictable in that way. I would like to believe that they would offer it to Mac Mini purchasers at $20.00, but there's no good way to predict that price or a cutoff date for which systems would be included and which wouldn't. Based on past history I wouldn't expect a free update to 10.4, they tend to charge for processing, shipping, discs, putting it at about $20. But as I said before, Apple's policy is unknown at this time.

Make sure you don't intend to use VPC for games- while VPC works for most things, it doesn't use advanced graphics capabilities of the Mac, but instead virtualizes to a pretty basic and low performing graphics adapter.

Your switch should go pretty smoothly, and you can always send me an email if you get stuck.

[rnwjr]

Great info and thanks for the quick response... I am actively searching the web for a 512MB Ram 80GB hard drive mini... Not sure where the best place is to by them for the value and the ship date... Apple's page now says 3-4 weeks and I have to fork over an extra $50 in taxes for Pennslvania... I may just wait until the 22nd and head to King of Prussia Mall and try my luck at the Apple store... Thanks again and if I have any questions with the Mini I will definately contact you!

-Bob

[vmarks]

Try your luck at the Apple store, they very likely have them in stock if they can get them at all.

Also give smalldog.com a call and see when they expect to have them.

[mbryda]

Upgrading a Mac is not the disaster that it is with Windows.

Before my HD died in my G4 iMac, I upgraded:

10.1.whatever to 10.2
10.2 to 10.3

All went without a hitch and 10.3 was stable and worked great.

I also did the same upgrade on the Wife's iBook, although that only went from 10.2 to 10.3 as it had 10.2 from the factory (G3/800, Nov '02).

Not sure why you need VPC - I hardly use my PC anymore - the only thing it is good for is printing postage from stamps.com. I refuse to pay the price gouging from endicia.com for their Mac version. Maybe if they lower the prices to the same as PC users I'll throw the PC in the dumpster!

[rnwjr]

I was thinking that I needed VPC to convert my Windows files on my keydrive to Mac... I.E. *.doc, *.txt, *.pdf, *.jpg, etc... I also wanted to install MSMoney, but I see that it comes with Quicken 2005 and I can get TurboTax so hopefully it will read and convert my Money file... It was always my understanding that MAC could not simply read PC files and the Demo of Virtual PC shows a MAC doc being converted to Windows by dragging and dropping...

-Bob

[osxisfun]

hi rnwjr,

have you thought of instead of VPC you used a KVM or better yet use this:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherpr...edesktopclient

Its free and i use it all the time. i love it.

Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac

Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac allows you to connect from your Macintosh computer to a Windows-based computer and work with programs and files on that computer.


With Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac, you can:


Access everything available for Microsoft® Windows® from your Macintosh desktop.
Copy and paste information between Macintosh and Windows programs.
Print from Windows programs to the printers connected to your Macintosh.
Use Windows terminal servers to provide groups of Macintosh users in the workplace with access to Windows-only programs.



To connect to a Windows-based computer, you need network access and permissions to connect to the computer, and the computer must be running Terminal Services or Remote Desktop Services. The following Windows products support Remote Desktop connections:


Windows XP Professional
Windows Server 2003
Windows 2000 Server
Windows 2000 Advanced Server
Windows 2000 Datacenter Server
Windows NT® Server 4.0, Terminal Server Edition

[osxisfun]

also, remember that you will be able to share / network very easily between the two. drag files back and forth.

congrats on the switch (soon)

[doxtorRay]

Originally posted by rnwjr:
I was thinking that I needed VPC to convert my Windows files on my keydrive to Mac... I.E. *.doc, *.txt, *.pdf, *.jpg, etc... I also wanted to install MSMoney, but I see that it comes with Quicken 2005 and I can get TurboTax so hopefully it will read and convert my Money file... It was always my understanding that MAC could not simply read PC files and the Demo of Virtual PC shows a MAC doc being converted to Windows by dragging and dropping...

-Bob

Actually, most file formats will require no conversion (a .doc for windows will probably be read by Word for Mac without problem, for example). More obscure conversions (in both directions) can usually be handled with utilities like MacLinkPlus ( http://www.dataviz.com/products/maclinkplus/ ).
The only files I have had problems with translating in the last few years were some old, complex WordPerfect 5 files with formulas and elaborate formatting (but then, even on a Windows machine, Word wouldn't open them correctly and I had to buy WordPerfect!).

[Scifience]

Originally posted by rnwjr:
I was thinking that I needed VPC to convert my Windows files on my keydrive to Mac... I.E. *.doc, *.txt, *.pdf, *.jpg, etc... I also wanted to install MSMoney, but I see that it comes with Quicken 2005 and I can get TurboTax so hopefully it will read and convert my Money file... It was always my understanding that MAC could not simply read PC files and the Demo of Virtual PC shows a MAC doc being converted to Windows by dragging and dropping...

-Bob

Don't buy VPC if these are the reasons you think you need it! Your Mac will read all of the file types you mentioned just fine without *any* type of conversion. Quicken 2005 should be able to convert your Money file with no problems, although the version included with the Mac Mini may not be able to as the bundled versions commonly omit such functionality. Still, buying a full version of Quicken would be much cheaper than purchasing a copy of VPC.

The only reason you would need VPC is if there was a Windows *program* (not file) that you needed to run on your Mac.

Again, Macs can read PC files without any problems, and vice versa, provided that both machines have a software application installed that can read the files. Word documents, PDF files, etc. will all be fine. See here (http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/) for more information on that.

I have a network with Macs and Windows systems (as well as Linux) in my home - the can all share files over the network and even printers without any problems!

[rnwjr]

You guys are awesome... Thank you for your input and saving me $129.00 so far... It can't wait and am ready to order... I also have two Lexar JumpDrive Secure USB drives and from what you are telling me I should at least be able to ready that as a drive from my PC to my mini and I very likely should be able to just plug that usb drive in my mini and read the files???

-Bob

P.S. You all really know your stuff and this is a great forum and look forward any easy switch or shall I say shuffle... LOL!

Also should I just order a 256MB Ram Mini from Amazon or Apple and worry about the upgrade later??? I am definatley ordering an 80GB HD...

[osxisfun]

>usb drive in my mini and read the files???


yes.


Also, if you can go to 512megs.

someone said the apple ram for 512 upgrade was cheap.

[Visnaut]

Originally posted by rnwjr:
I should at least be able to ready that as a drive from my PC to my mini and I very likely should be able to just plug that usb drive in my mini and read the files???

Yeah, I do it all the time, just plug the drive into your mac, it'll show up on your desktop and just drag and drop the files wherever you please. I can't remember the last time I've had to *convert* a file to work on my mac. As long as you have the right program to open it, it'll work, just like on a PC.

Originally posted by rnwjr:
Also should I just order a 256MB Ram Mini from Amazon or Apple and worry about the upgrade later??? I am definatley ordering an 80GB HD...

If you're going to customize your order, I'd suggest buying directly from Apple. Personally I would get 512MB, extra RAM always makes your mac run smoother. The cost is nominal, but it's highly worth it, in my opinion.

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by rnwjr:
You guys are awesome... Thank you for your input and saving me $129.00 so far... It can't wait and am ready to order... I also have two Lexar JumpDrive Secure USB drives and from what you are telling me I should at least be able to ready that as a drive from my PC to my mini and I very likely should be able to just plug that usb drive in my mini and read the files???

-Bob

P.S. You all really know your stuff and this is a great forum and look forward any easy switch or shall I say shuffle... LOL!

Also should I just order a 256MB Ram Mini from Amazon or Apple and worry about the upgrade later??? I am definatley ordering an 80GB HD...

I'm under the impression that Apple/Apple authorized repair center folks are the only people who can install ram in the mini without voiding the warranty, so you wouldn't save much by buying your ram elsewhere and paying apple to install it for you. Fork out the $75 for the 512mb ram chip installed. 512mb is really a necessity for 10.3. $100 to upgrade to a superdrive (dvd burner) from a combo drive doesn't seem like a bad deal either.

If 10.4 is released within 30 days of your mini purchase, you should be able to upgrade from 10.3 to 10.4 for around $19. Otherwise, it'll be $129.

[rnwjr]

Mac mini 1.42GHz
Part Number: Z0B8
Accessory kit
80GB Ultra ATA drive
56K v.92 Modem
Combo Drive
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
Mac OS X - U.S. English

Estimated Ship: 3-4 weeks
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping

Order Subtotal: $674.00
Free Shipping: $0.00
Estimated Tax*: $40.44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Estimated Total: $714.44


Can't wait until I receive it!!!

Thanks again for all your help!!!!

[Ryan1524]

you're gonna love it. and don't worry about files, most files can be read on mac, unless it's created by some obscure PC only application. otherwise, there should be no problems whatsoever.

you might've wanted to add Airport Extreme (WiFi), and maybe even Bluetooth, but then again, this is a desktop machine, so one extra ethernet cable isn't really that much.

have fun in the mac world, and welcome.

[dgs212]

I just want to say you guys are awesome.

I mostly spend my time on MacNN in the lounge, but the excitement of the mini has made me lurk the other fora. It's nice to see the prompt, helpful, and knowledgable answers everyone is posting. You all have my commendation.

One user at a time, we'll switch 'em to Mac.

(When that happens, do you think the spyware-free and virus-free computing we all enjoy will come to an end?)

[Ryan1524]

i'm afraid so. once the mac community is big enough, there will be some unethical programmers who'd get a kick out of trying to break through the protections and make a statement. once that happens, others will follow suit. i know people say OSX is harder to crack, but one thing i've never failed to recognize from the underground is that no matter what system any company came up with, someone has always managed to crack it. and OSX will be a victim of this as well when the time comes.

but until then, we can bask in the peace of mind that can only come from an elite minority group.

[mattsgotredhair]

Originally posted by Ryan1524:

but until then, we can bask in the peace of mind that can only come from an elite minority group.

ummm... hello? dont you know its l33t? duh.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Ryan1524:
i'm afraid so. once the mac community is big enough, there will be some unethical programmers who'd get a kick out of trying to break through the protections and make a statement. once that happens, others will follow suit. i know people say OSX is harder to crack, but one thing i've never failed to recognize from the underground is that no matter what system any company came up with, someone has always managed to crack it. and OSX will be a victim of this as well when the time comes.

but until then, we can bask in the peace of mind that can only come from an elite minority group.

Yes but the Main difference is that the the underpinnings of OS X are open source so as fast as someone can make something there will always be people there to fix it.

[pliny]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
I'm under the impression that Apple/Apple authorized repair center folks are the only people who can install ram in the mini without voiding the warranty, so you wouldn't save much by buying your ram elsewhere and paying apple to install it for you.

No apparently you won't void the warranty if you do it yourself, you just need the right tool to open it up, there aren't screws so I'm not sure what type of tool you need. Though apparently people have used a similar tool to open their iPods, I'm sure we will see a service manual posted around here soon!

"quote:
I spoke with the product manager for the Mac mini today to clarify a few facts.

Yes, it will boot headless, meaning with no display or video device connected, enabling you to have what I like to call an iServe.

While it is strongly recommended that you only have an Apple Autherized Service Provider crack it open and install RAM, hard drives, Airport and Bluetooth, it will NOT void your warranty if you do it yourself. As is standard operating procedure, however, anything you break while attempting anything on your own is not Apple’s responsibility and will not be covered under warranty. I think that is pretty much common sense.

Airport and Bluetooth can, in fact, be added after purchase. AirPort Extreme card and Bluetooth module attach to the Mac mini’s motherboard via a special connector and will be sold together as a kit for $129.

RAM is the most accessible upgrade once you get the case off. That much is clear from the picture.

All upgrades other than RAM are not as accessible, but accessing them won’t void your warranty, with list item #2 above in mind.

The reason the TOP of the Mac mini doesn’t glow and pulse (this is my only gripe so far) is that there wasn’t enough room to light it once the optical drive went in



http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/1234000917027372/

"

[osxisfun]

>The reason the TOP of the Mac mini doesn’t glow and pulse (this is my only gripe so far) is that there wasn’t enough room to light it once the optical drive went in


Damn! that would have been cool!

[osxisfun]

taking bets here! taking bets!

How many days until we see and "official" crack tool to open the mini...


???

I bet 30 days.

Its going to be the phillips torx of the new century!!!!

Its 1984 all over again!

[typoon]

Originally posted by pliny:
No apparently you won't void the warranty if you do it yourself, you just need the right tool to open it up, there aren't screws so I'm not sure what type of tool you need. Though apparently people have used a similar tool to open their iPods, I'm sure we will see a service manual posted around here soon!

"quote:
I spoke with the product manager for the Mac mini today to clarify a few facts.

Yes, it will boot headless, meaning with no display or video device connected, enabling you to have what I like to call an iServe.

While it is strongly recommended that you only have an Apple Autherized Service Provider crack it open and install RAM, hard drives, Airport and Bluetooth, it will NOT void your warranty if you do it yourself. As is standard operating procedure, however, anything you break while attempting anything on your own is not Apple’s responsibility and will not be covered under warranty. I think that is pretty much common sense.

Airport and Bluetooth can, in fact, be added after purchase. AirPort Extreme card and Bluetooth module attach to the Mac mini’s motherboard via a special connector and will be sold together as a kit for $129.

RAM is the most accessible upgrade once you get the case off. That much is clear from the picture.

All upgrades other than RAM are not as accessible, but accessing them won’t void your warranty, with list item #2 above in mind.

The reason the TOP of the Mac mini doesn’t glow and pulse (this is my only gripe so far) is that there wasn’t enough room to light it once the optical drive went in



http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/1234000917027372/

"

Great! Thanks for the clarification. I can't wait to get my hands on one and hear what others think of it. This sounds like a SWEET little machine.