[Wesley Baker]

I've followed the last thread on whether to buy a G5. My situation is a little different. I'm not in media editing per se. I use Photoshop in my work about ten times a month (Photoshop 7.0). (I'm a bookbinder and occasionally have need for black-and-white art work for dies.) Photoshop, Word, and Quickbooks are most used programs outside of Safari and Mail.

I have the budget (and lust!) for a G5 (dual 1.8 with a good deal of RAM and 23" monitor) but is this overkill. I'm clunking along on a 667 TiBook (1 gb RAM) and G3 iMac (1gb RAM.

I generally buy the best tools that I can afford and use them as long as I can. (Okay, the iMac doesn't fit this description!)

Would a 1.8 Ghz (2 GB RAM) iMac suffice for my needs?

Incidentally, I noticed that MacWorld placed the 23" HP monitor above the Apple one as far as performance and price.

Many thanks in advance.

Wes Baker

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
I've followed the last thread on whether to buy a G5. My situation is a little different. I'm not in media editing per se. I use Photoshop in my work about ten times a month (Photoshop 7.0). (I'm a bookbinder and occasionally have need for black-and-white art work for dies.) Photoshop, Word, and Quickbooks are most used programs outside of Safari and Mail.

I have the budget (and lust!) for a G5 (dual 1.8 with a good deal of RAM and 23" monitor) but is this overkill. I'm clunking along on a 667 TiBook (1 gb RAM) and G3 iMac (1gb RAM.

I generally buy the best tools that I can afford and use them as long as I can. (Okay, the iMac doesn't fit this description!)

Would a 1.8 Ghz (2 GB RAM) iMac suffice for my needs?

Incidentally, I noticed that MacWorld placed the 23" HP monitor above the Apple one as far as performance and price.

Many thanks in advance.

Wes Baker

Wes, if possible, you should go with your PowerBook to an Apple Store or a place near you that has G5 PowerMacs. Try them out. See for yourself what the difference is and what it is worth it to you in dollar terms. Keep an open mind about the fact that most places won't have tricked out the G5 with ideal RAM, but at least you will get a feel for this that you can grasp.

My gut response would be that you describe yourself as clunking along, and I doubt you'd feel that way on a PowerMac with 2.5 GB of RAM. But ultimately, these decision are best made based on firsthand experience.

[Wesley Baker]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Wes, if possible, you should go with your PowerBook to an Apple Store or a place near you that has G5 PowerMacs. Try them out. See for yourself what the difference is and what it is worth it to you in dollar terms. Keep an open mind about the fact that most places won't have tricked out the G5 with ideal RAM, but at least you will get a feel for this that you can grasp.

My gut response would be that you describe yourself as clunking along, and I doubt you'd feel that way on a PowerMac with 2.5 GB of RAM. But ultimately, these decision are best made based on firsthand experience.

I have been to the Apple store in Atlanta (and Soho, for that matter). I've played around with the G5 and it's like a Ferrari. Considering what I'll need it for (Photoshop being the most complex program)), is it worth the extra cash? As opposed to the iMac 1.8 G5.

Best,

Wes

[-Q-]

Based on your stated usage, I'd save the cash on a Power Mac and go with the iMac G5. That way, you can max out the specs on the iMac and still have a lot of cash left over. If you have no need for expansion, I don't see the point in spending the extra $$ on the tower...

[Scotttheking]

mini (upgrade the ram) + good LCD, or imac G5. You don't have a need for a tower.

[jamil5454]

When I went to the Apple Store, the iMac G5 1.8 felt nearly as fast as the dual 1.8. Both had 512mb of RAM. The dual was a little snappier but for the most part the iMac was plenty fast. Im used to my 1.2ghz iBook so maybe my conceptions are a little skewed.

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
I have been to the Apple store in Atlanta (and Soho, for that matter). I've played around with the G5 and it's like a Ferrari. Considering what I'll need it for (Photoshop being the most complex program)), is it worth the extra cash? As opposed to the iMac 1.8 G5.

Best,

Wes

Wes, I'm going to disagree with people and recommend that you go with the dual 1.8 for the following reasons:

1. One friend of mine who does primarily PS work is constantly butting up against HD constraints. The PowerMac's internal expansion is limited, but being free to pop in a 400 GB scratch disc is kind of nice. Also, the FireWire 800 port will come in handy for any external storage you may want to add and have quick access to.

2. Tiger will include a major upgrade to graphics technology that offloads a great deal of processing to the GPU. The PowerMac's GPU is upgradeable, and this will give you a terrific long term benefit for Photoshop work. This is probably more significant than the first reason. For your work, you may want both an LCD and a CRT, since CRT's are superior for color critical work.

3. The fact that you're still using a subGHz G4 tells me that you're not inclined to upgrade very often. Which means that when you do, it should be a significant move.

My 2 cents. Good luck to you.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Wes, I'm going to disagree with people and recommend that you go with the dual 1.8 for the following reasons:

1. One friend of mine who does primarily PS work is constantly butting up against HD constraints. The PowerMac's internal expansion is limited, but being free to pop in a 400 GB scratch disc is kind of nice. Also, the FireWire 800 port will come in handy for any external storage you may want to add and have quick access to.

2. Tiger will include a major upgrade to graphics technology that offloads a great deal of processing to the GPU. The PowerMac's GPU is upgradeable, and this will give you a terrific long term benefit for Photoshop work. This is probably more significant than the first reason. For your work, you may want both an LCD and a CRT, since CRT's are superior for color critical work.

3. The fact that you're still using a subGHz G4 tells me that you're not inclined to upgrade very often. Which means that when you do, it should be a significant move.

My 2 cents. Good luck to you.

Using photoshop 10 times a month isn't a lot of use. There's no point in spending a lot of money for an app if you lightly use it occassionally. Same with the Tiger improvements. I'd say go with the imac, if even that.

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Using photoshop 10 times a month isn't a lot of use. There's no point in spending a lot of money for an app if you lightly use it occassionally. Same with the Tiger improvements. I'd say go with the imac, if even that.

If he uses it ten times a month... in 12 hour sessions... that's 120 hours... then he'll like having the duallie... for which Photoshop is actually optimized.

Others may be right that it's more than you seem to "need"... but, unless money's tight, I still think you'll find the duallie a better bargain over time. Wes, go with the duallie. You'll never regret having a Mac that feels like a "Ferrari" to you.

[MORT A POTTY]

I'd say the PowerMac G5, but only because it has more than two RAM slots. two RAM slots sucks. but, the iMac G5 is a very nice machine and you can get a matched pair of low latency RAM for it and be alright.

and you can put a pretty large HD in the iMac too. have you been insde the thing? I have. it's really packed in there, but you can replace parts, definitely and the iMac G5 actually comes with the Photoshop G5 plugin. and the GPU on the iMac G5 supports Core Image anyway.

I'd say tricked out 20" iMac.

[greenmeanie]

i dont think you need the powermac.
but if you have the cash go for it

[jamil5454]

I second that. He's not doing any mission-critical Photoshop work. I'm using a 1.2 ghz iBook with 1.25 RAM and it handles occassional Photoshop work very well. Believe it or not, the DP PowerMac is a high-end machine and is meant to be used for high-end purposes. While the DP PowerMac will probably last longer than an iMac, his use for the machine isn't going to change much over time (I'm assuming). Therefore I wouldn't waste money and just get a decked out 20" iMac.

If it was me, I couldn't resist a dual. While my iBook is fine for most things, iMovie and GarageBand are pretty slow and Expose lags sometimes, not to mention Quicktime if I have a few movies open. The internal hard disk is what really bogs it down, and I can't find a good enough reason to purchase a good firewire hard disk. The only important thing I do on my iBook is a little Java in XCode (I love it!), so spending thousands on a dual when I don't need it wouldn't make much sense. However, my dabbling in video and audio work would persuade me to get the dual. I wouldn't even ask for advice on these forums before I purchased it.

[Wesley Baker]

Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the choice comes down to a 'decked out' 1.8 iMac (MacMall looks like it has a good deal with 1.8/20"/250gb internal drive/bluetooth keyboard and mouse, etc. for around $2200. Add a gig of memory/ airport card and the total comes to $2400.

A Power Mac on the Apple site (dual 1.8/250gb/airport card/bluetooth/ATI card with 128 mb/23" display fetches around $3800 + tax. (Educational discount) I'll buy the RAM elsewhere, obviously.

So it comes down to around $1400. In all likelihood this is a stupid or unanswerable question, but, as my wife can assure you, I'll ask it anyway: how many years of use do think $1400 dollars would give me over the iMac - considering 10.4, etc.?

Again, many thanks for your helpful advice. Your time/expertise is much appreciated.

Regards,

Wes

[-Q-]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
So it comes down to around $1400. In all likelihood this is a stupid or unanswerable question, but, as my wife can assure you, I'll ask it anyway: how many years of use do think $1400 dollars would give me over the iMac - considering 10.4, etc.?

That's a pretty subjective question unfortunately. Only you can really answer how 'hard' you are on a machine. And guessing about what technology will be like in two years is like playing the lotto. Heh, probably better odds on the lotto.

Another way to look at it is: by not spending the $1400, can you get an iMac and then get a brand new machine in two years instead of trying to make the older iMac last? Does that $1400 savings now provide you greater flexibility down the road to get a new machine with the latest tech instead of upgrading an older machine (or making do with what you have)?

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the choice comes down to a 'decked out' 1.8 iMac (MacMall looks like it has a good deal with 1.8/20"/250gb internal drive/bluetooth keyboard and mouse, etc. for around $2200. Add a gig of memory/ airport card and the total comes to $2400.

A Power Mac on the Apple site (dual 1.8/250gb/airport card/bluetooth/ATI card with 128 mb/23" display fetches around $3800 + tax. (Educational discount) I'll buy the RAM elsewhere, obviously.

So it comes down to around $1400. In all likelihood this is a stupid or unanswerable question, but, as my wife can assure you, I'll ask it anyway: how many years of use do think $1400 dollars would give me over the iMac - considering 10.4, etc.?

Again, many thanks for your helpful advice. Your time/expertise is much appreciated.

Regards,

Wes

Here's yet another take:

$1994 for basic Apple dual 1.8, no upgrades.
$389 for 2 gigs of RAM from RAMJET.COM
$999 for Apple's 20" monitor

This totals out at $3382.00 (not including shipping, which is far less than tax). I would use Macconnection for the computer and the monitor. So, this is less than $1000 more than your iMac config. And it give you the option of upgrading to a significantly better video card down the line (wait for Tiger and performance reviews of various cards). And it also enables you to add a hard drive ($204 for a 300GB MAXTOR SATA from Newegg.com) eventually, as well.

Now, if you want a 23", that's an option. $1599 gets you the HP L2335 (superior 23" monitor, $200 less expensive than Apple's). But you can always ADD this later (that's right, the dream of running two monitors can be yours).

You don't "need" to upgrade the video card right away. I recommend waiting until the prices on ATI's X800XT or the next-gen nVidias comes down a little bit. The boost from the included 5200 to the 9600XT or 9800XT is not insignificant, but these cards are currently being leap-frogged in performance, so I'd just bide my time.

[awcopus]

Act fast and you can have a dual-2GHz (512MB/160GB/SuperDrive) for $2,100. Apple refurbished. Excellent deal.

[Wesley Baker]

Does anyone know where the refurbed 2.0 is that was mentioned? I checked the Apple site, but they only have 12 Powerbooks left.

Wes

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
Does anyone know where the refurbed 2.0 is that was mentioned? I checked the Apple site, but they only have 12 Powerbooks left.

Wes

Follow the link from macnn.com's home page link under the article title: "Refurb 17-inch iMac G4 at Apple Store."

It may already be too late, these things fly when they come up. But the refurbished units rock, in my experience (I'm on my second one).

Good luck!

[Wesley Baker]

I followed a link from a google search - some meta page that listed refurbed powermacs around the web, ...ended up on Apple's site (may have been an old page, but the ordering process went through and have had two confirmation emails from Apple. We'll see if the order 'goes through').

Thanks for the heads-up. Now for that RAM and display. I saw the MacWorld article on displays and how the HP, 23" fared better in color and angle tests. It may sound priggish, but the thought of putting a HP monitor next to that tower just doesn't do it for me!

All of my artwork has to be black-and-white anyway, so the color tests are a moot point. I think the 20" will do the trick for now.


Wes

[awcopus]

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
I followed a link from a google search - some meta page that listed refurbed powermacs around the web, ...ended up on Apple's site (may have been an old page, but the ordering process went through and have had two confirmation emails from Apple. We'll see if the order 'goes through').

Thanks for the heads-up. Now for that RAM and display. I saw the MacWorld article on displays and how the HP, 23" fared better in color and angle tests. It may sound priggish, but the thought of putting a HP monitor next to that tower just doesn't do it for me!

All of my artwork has to be black-and-white anyway, so the color tests are a moot point. I think the 20" will do the trick for now.


Wes

So you got the dual 2GHz machine!?! That is SWEET! You won't regret it. Once you get the confirmation on your order, check out ramjet, and then... well, I agree with you about the monitor. I'm sort of the same way... would call it "particular" instead of priggish, but I get where you're coming from. The 20" is a beauty.

Take your time with the graphics card upgrade and the additional HD. The nice thing about this move is that over the course of the year, for a few hundred here (Tiger) and there (hard drive) and there again (new GPU), you get to keep improving this machine.

[Detrius]

I know I'm a little late, as you have already ordered, but here's my two cents:

a dual processor machine is up to twice as fast as a single processor machine. The system bus on the power mac is 50% faster than on the iMac; there's two processors and two busses, making this three times faster.

Maybe you won't be maxing out the machine right now, but a few years down the road, the iMac will feel like a slow-poke while the Power Mac is still two to three times faster in many areas.

Four years ago, I decided between spending $3000 on a dual 533 and $1500 on a G4 cube. Ultimately, I decided that the cube wasn't upgradeable enough, because at the time you could only connect one monitor. I have yet to do any major upgrades to this machine (same processors and GeForce 2MX). If I had gone with an iMac of the time, it would have been replaced a year or two ago, at least. This machine I expect to get another couple of years out of before I feel like I have to do something.

I feel like I only spent twice as much for a machine that will do three to four times as much in the long haul. You shouldn't think about how a machine is too much now. Think about what kind of machine this will look like in another two to four years.

[Wesley Baker]

Many thanks to awcopus and detrius for their kind help, comments, and perspectives. I'm sure that I'll be asking many more questions in the weeks ahead.

Cordially,

Wes