[Mediaman_12]

year or so back I gave my mum my old 350 (upgraded to 550) G4. to replace her aging iMac. Over the last few months there has been an ongoing problem with software updates. If done via the 'Online' software update app, it will download the update, then come up with a 'make sure you have permission to write to..(some temp dir)', If done with a downloaded update via the installer app, it gets to the end then says there where problems with the installation and to try again.
I have repaired permissions till I am blue in the face, with no results.
So today I decided to smash the problem in to submission. I get a new HD to replace the older one (she needs more space for her pics anyway) and do a clean Panther install. I Stick the new drive in and run the Panther install disk. it runs the entire install, then comes up with the 'there have been problems' error again. I run the install again, this time formating the disk first, same result.
So I pull the drive stick it in my Quicksilver, and run the installer on that, to see if it's the disk. It installs fine. When it gets to the 'setup' part (Hasn't Panther got cool 'setup' music, never seen that before.) I turn off instead of restarting, and run the setup part on my mums G4. It boots and runs through the setup no problem. I then do a 'repair permissions' in the disk util, just to be sure.It fixes a few things but not a huge number. Then I let Software Update do it's thing. It downloads a huge (102MB) combo update, then it gives the same 'make sure you have permission to write to..(some temp dir)' as before. AAAGGG! Ok so I downloaded the last combo update so I copy it oven the network from my Mac and run that, I get the same 'there has been a problem with the install, try again' error. (Glad I bought that new HD instead of reformatting, so I stuck the old HD back in.)
So what the hell is going on here? This was a separate, HD (the old one wasn't even in the damn Mac). The disk must be fine or how could I have installed the OS on it via my Mac. Why would the same 'permissions' errors come up in completely separate installs, I just don't 'get' it, has anyone got any ideas?
I couldn't even of load the thing on eBay, as I can't put on a fresh OS install.

Note: yes I also posted this on Ars, but there is a different set of folks here.

[reader50]

Are you able to run a RAM test on your system? The installers may be getting into trouble as they fill up the RAM and get to a bad stick.

Is it possible that you gave your mom a regular user account instead of an admin account? I've never tried installing an OS update from a regular user account, it definitely needs write permission in places a regular user can't access.

You could try enabling the root user and installing the OS update from there.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by reader50:
Are you able to run a RAM test on your system? The installers may be getting into trouble as they fill up the RAM and get to a bad stick.

Is it possible that you gave your mom a regular user account instead of an admin account? I've never tried installing an OS update from a regular user account, it definitely needs write permission in places a regular user can't access.

You could try enabling the root user and installing the OS update from there.

How would I go about doing a RAM test?

As the update problem came about straight after a fresh install I don't see how I could have created any other account.

[reader50]

Your computer may or may not have come with a Hardware Diagnostics disk from Apple. Those were released right around (or after) your system was released. If you don't have a diagnostic disk, TechTool Pro will test RAM. Loop the tests if you can, since bad RAM will often test good for awhile. Or you could pull DIMMs and rerun the installer. Reportedly, Apple's internal service diagnostics disks have far better tests, but those are hard to come by since Apple doesn't release them to end users. In order to get one, you'll need a lot of black clothes, some cool commando hardware, and a late-night visit to Apple. Must be able to outrun guard dogs.

Er, how much RAM does this machine have? If the installer is trying to run in 64MB, it may run out of RAM and try to write to the swap file on the boot disk (the CD). This would indeed result in a failure to write to a temp directory. This isn't supposed to happen, the filesystem mounts read-only when booted from CD. But you didn't give us complete machine model and specs to work from, so I'm having to guess blind.

Did you try holding down the CUDA button on the machine? Glitched up PRAM can cause a lot of weird symptoms. Also, your machine is getting old enough to need a new battery. My G4 350 (upgraded) needed a new battery a few months ago.

If it really were a temp directory permissions issue, you could manually make the directories writeable by everyone, which is how they're supposed to be anyway. The temp directories are located at:
/private/tmp
- and -
/private/var/tmp

Pull up the Get Info on each directory, toggle down the Ownership & Permissions section, make sure everyone has Read & Write, then Apply to enclosed items just in case it's a subdirectory that's the problem. It's hard to see how it could really be a temp directory permissions problem on a fresh format/install, unless your install CD has issues.

[Mediaman_12]

Doubt it's a 'out of physical memory' issue as it has 576MB. Could be a RAM problem though as this RAM has been 'sourced' from various places, brother upgrading his PC me swapping some in mine etc.

Like you say, the permissions thing is hard to understand on a 100% fresh install.
2 other things. What settings would be lost if I did press the CUDA button (that's the small red button on the motherboard, right?). and what other symptoms are there to a dead battery, it's never really gets shut down for long periods of time, my mum usually just puts it in sleep mode.

I will have a 'dig around' on various other internet boards and see if I can 'obtain' a 'Diagnostics disk', never heard of one before. The 'Software Restore CD' that cam with it was a OS9 one (© 1999 on the edge of the CD)

[Detrius]

TTP is not reliable for testing any kind of hardware other than doing a surface scan.

There are command line utilities called memtest and dctest. The first is available at http://www.memtestosx.org/ I don't know off the top of my head where the other is. The first is RAM, the second tests for disk corruption, which could be a bad cable, or logic board, since you have swapped out the drives.

[reader50]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
...
What settings would be lost if I did press the CUDA button (that's the small red button on the motherboard, right?). and what other symptoms are there to a dead battery...

The most common symptom of a dead battery or a CUDA reset is loss of the date and time. A few other hardware-related prefs may have to be reset afterwards too, such as the default boot drive.

[Mediaman_12]

I downloaded and ran memtest, and got loads of errors. So as I don't really want to shell out and buy a new set of dims, how would I interpret the results to tell me which dimm is the bad one (or ones)? link to results file (will open in Safari, right click if you want)

This probably explains the random crashes as well.

[reader50]

memtest ran on my system without turning up errors. That doesn't look so good for your test, but since your test wasn't done in single-user mode, most of your RAM wasn't tested and there's a slight chance some other process addressed the RAM during the test. I'd suggest putting the memtest app in your home folder, rebooting into single-user mode (open-apple-s during bootup), and rerun the test, preferably with one RAM stick in at a time.

You could turn the hex values into RAM addresses and figure out which DIMM the errors came from, but most of your RAM wasn't tested from that log file - memtest only grabbed and tested the free RAM.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
I downloaded and ran memtest, and got loads of errors. So as I don't really want to shell out and buy a new set of dims, how would I interpret the results to tell me which dimm is the bad one (or ones)? link to results file (will open in Safari, right click if you want)

This probably explains the random crashes as well.

If you have multiple RAM modules in the machine, you can pull them out one at a time to see which one is the culprit.

[Mediaman_12]

I (attempted) checked the DIMMs one at a time in single user mode 2 checked out OK (the two from Crucial) with one (a pc133 256mb) it came up with a flashing question mark, with the other (the original Apple labelled DIMM) the Mac KP'ed instantly.

this raises 2 questions. Why has the original Apple DIMM gone bad, it's never been removed from the machine. And are pc133 modules incompatible with these early (AGP) G4's?

PC100 ram is quite hard to get (yes you can get it from Crucial but it seams relatively expensive), with local vendors only going down to 133 and selling them for less than the 100 where you can find it.

note: are these compatible with the G4 Sawtooth, or does anyone else know of a good source of PC100 RAM in the UK?

[reader50]

Most PC133 is compatible with PC100 speeds. It's all supposed to be, in order to meet the JEDEC specs, but manufacturers have left off the slower speed specs before. Probably to avoid the added expense of testing the DIMMs at those speeds.

If they left off some speed codes, you may be able to use DIMM First Aid to check and repair them. Try using it on your question-mark PC133 DIMM.

The speed codes it adds will not be the most aggressive, but they will work if the problem is missing CAS3 codes. After a firmware update, a bunch of older G4s would no longer accept some 3rd-party DIMMs that skipped the full speed codes.

If the Apple module has gone bad, just toss it and don't worry about it. It will be a 64 MB module I expect, which is pitifully small today. Not worth worrying about why it failed, and with it out of warranty and unrepairable, it's just not worth your time.

G4s will typically accept modules up to 256MB without problems, but they need 512MB modules that are less common today and best obtained from a store that sells Mac-supported RAM.