[JazzCatDRP]

Hey all,
I'm considering a Mac Mini as a birthday gift for my dad. He's a mac addict from waaaay back, but he's stuck using an old G3 tower. How much of a step up would the base $499 mac mini be? Would it make a good gift? Thanks!

[iREZ]

It depends on his uses. The Mac mini is definetely a step up from his older G3 tower thats for sure. I think it'll be a great gift as long as he doesn't do any disk intensive things, but if that was the case I don't think he'd still be using a G3. I say go for it.

[hldan]

Originally posted by JazzCatDRP:
Hey all,
I'm considering a Mac Mini as a birthday gift for my dad. He's a mac addict from waaaay back, but he's stuck using an old G3 tower. How much of a step up would the base $499 mac mini be? Would it make a good gift? Thanks!

Any gift especially a computer gift should be appreciated by most and in this case the Mac Mini is very cool. The thing you need to find out is if your dad uses OS9 or OSX? If he's still in the OS9 dark ages he will have to dump most of his old software and spend money to migrate to OSX. It would be redundant for him to run classic to use his old apps with the Mini, at that point he would not benefit the new computers capabilities. It may work better for you to tell him what he's getting before you buy it so he'll know what he needs to do to enjoy the Mac.

[JazzCatDRP]

He's still stuck in OS9 mode, by choice...prefers the "classic" mac experience. Can the mini boot from OS9 without having to be in OS X running classic?

[hadocon]

Originally posted by JazzCatDRP:
He's still stuck in OS9 mode, by choice...prefers the "classic" mac experience. Can the mini boot from OS9 without having to be in OS X running classic?

The Mini can boot OS9 just fine (although I've never tried it). It even comes with an OS9 install disk.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by hadocon:
The Mini can boot OS9 just fine (although I've never tried it). It even comes with an OS9 install disk.

The mini can not boot into OS 9. New Macs haven't been able to boot into OS 9 for some time now. It can only run applications in Classic mode. Please do some research before spreading the wrong information.

[macaddict0001]

I'm pretty sure it can. and it does come with an os 9 install disk.(actually as a point of clarification all the macmini's software comes on one dvd.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
I'm pretty sure it can. and it does come with an os 9 install disk.(actually as a point of clarification all the macmini's software comes on one dvd.

Apple hasn't sold a "new" system that can boot natively into OS 9 since late 2003 with the exception of some of the eMac 1GHz models. Of those models only the low end model without a SuperDrive could do it. Those where discontinued at the latest April 2004. The mini may come with an OS 9 install disk but that is only for Classic support.

The Mac mini can not boot into OS 9. Do some research and quit giving the wrong information. Apple would have to support OS 9 if they shipped new systems with OS 9. Why would they do that? The Classic enviroment and booting into OS 9 are nowhere near the same.

[yikes600]

discotronic is right

[Eriamjh]

Boot oS9? Yeah, Apple booted it right off the standard HD install.

Wait for Tiger. OS9 is not only dead, it is turned to dust.

[macaddict0001]

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86209
this should prove my point. though i suspect that this just hasn't been updated to include the mac mini. I would say that you should e-mail apple.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86209
this should prove my point. though i suspect that this just hasn't been updated to include the mac mini. I would say that you should e-mail apple.

How does that prove that the Mac mini can boot into OS 9?

[tooki]

OK, people here are severely confusing "booting Mac OS 9" and "booting into Mac OS 9". They're not the same.

NO Mac released for several years now can boot INTO Mac OS 9, which means booting directly to the Mac OS 9 desktop. You cannot install Mac OS 9 on recent Macs and have it boot into the Mac OS 9 desktop.

ALL Macs that can run Mac OS X can boot Mac OS 9 inside the Classic environment. This is running Mac OS 9 inside Mac OS X. This allows old programs to run, but they do not gain any of the benefits of Mac OS X. This is called Classic.

tooki

[hldan]

Just to add a note, look at Mac OS9 in classic like Virtual PC. It runs inside of Mac OSX so from a cold boot you can't start up Windows on the Mac. Mac OS9 in classic is like a virtual machine so it won't be the speed demon it was when actually booting into OS9.

[hadocon]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Apple hasn't sold a "new" system that can boot natively into OS 9 since late 2003 with the exception of some of the eMac 1GHz models. Of those models only the low end model without a SuperDrive could do it. Those where discontinued at the latest April 2004. The mini may come with an OS 9 install disk but that is only for Classic support.

The Mac mini can not boot into OS 9. Do some research and quit giving the wrong information. Apple would have to support OS 9 if they shipped new systems with OS 9. Why would they do that? The Classic enviroment and booting into OS 9 are nowhere near the same.

Apple does support OS 9. Even though it may only run in Classic, Apple is still obliged to support users who are stuck using it.

link

Do some research, and quit giving the wrong information.

[tooki]

What are you talking about? Discotronic is exactly, totally, 100% correct.

tooki

[hadocon]

Originally posted by tooki:
What are you talking about? Discotronic is exactly, totally, 100% correct.

tooki

Discotronic said that Apple does not support OS 9, when indeed they do. I agree that Discotronic is right about the Mini not booting directly into OS 9, but his statement that Apple does not support OS 9 was incorrect.

[yikes600]

Originally posted by hadocon:
Discotronic said that Apple does not support OS 9, when indeed they do. I agree that Discotronic is right about the Mini not booting directly into OS 9, but his statement that Apple does not support OS 9 was incorrect.

WTF? Read again what discotronic said. Every single time he has said The mini cannot boot into OS 9. Classic is supported for all macs with OS X. That's not even the issue here!

[hadocon]

Originally posted by yikes600:
WTF? Read again what discotronic said. Every single time he has said The mini cannot boot into OS 9. Classic is supported for all macs with OS X. That's not even the issue here!

AFAIK by support Discotronic does not mean execute the code, he means support as in customer support. If not, he should have been less ambiguous.

[tooki]

Originally posted by hldan:
Just to add a note, look at Mac OS9 in classic like Virtual PC. It runs inside of Mac OSX so from a cold boot you can't start up Windows on the Mac. Mac OS9 in classic is like a virtual machine so it won't be the speed demon it was when actually booting into OS9.

Actually, Classic is little like Virtual PC. Virtual PC is an emulator -- that requires massive conversion of functions and emulation of hardware. Classic is a virtual machine: a native-mode computer-within-a-program. Classic does NOT convert any functions. Classic programs run at essentially full speed (realistically, about 95% of the speed compared to being booted directly into OS 9). Emulators incur a huge speed penalty. Virtual machines incur almost none.

tooki

[ApeInTheShell]

You'll want a Power Mac G4 that was sold before June 28, 2003 because after that it is 10.2 only. Here is a link to everymac.com that will give you a good idea of what used mac to buy your Dad. This is the mirror door model.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/appl...25_dp_mdd.html

And this site usually finds the places with deals:

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/deals.html#june

Happy Shopping!

[Rainy Day]

Originally posted by tooki:
Actually, Classic is little like Virtual PC. Virtual PC is an emulator... Classic is a virtual machine: a native-mode computer-within-a-program.

Mostly right, except that Classic does contain an emulator for 68K code.

But JazzCatDRP should find out what software his dad uses before deciding MacOS X ain't for him. If he just surfs the web, does eMail, and runs word processing, he may not even need to use Classic at all. Yes, there's a learning curve/bitching period in adjusting to MacOS X, but once you're over that, you'll never want to go back to 9 again. The Mac Mini may be the perfect gift for your dad, but you might want to play it safe by giving him a "voucher" for it before buying the box, or just talk to him about it.

I'd stay away from a used Mac. It won't be that much faster than what he has now for the money you'll spend, and he'll have to migrate to MacOS X sooner or later, if he wants to stay with Mac's.

Good luck.

[JazzCatDRP]

He does the usual web browsing and emailing, but does a lot of intense photoshop work, which is ungodly slow on his tower of course. From talking to him in the past, I think the main reason he's stuck on OS9 is a mix of preferring the old "classic" mac experience and also the fact the OS X would run unbearably slow on his machine.

[Rainy Day]

Well it sounds like a Mac Mini would solve much of the latter (although perhaps not as well as a G5 iMac might!) As for the former, well Tiger might convince him it's worth the switch (then again, it might not). So subjective and such a matter of personal preference. I resisted MacOS X when it first came out because of the changes (and the fact i had a 266 MHz G3), but now i wouldn't go back to OS 9 for love nor money (and i'm still on a 266 MHz G3)!

A Mac Mini running Tiger with 512 Mb or 1 Gb RAM (256 Mb isn't enough) and your dad would probably be a happy camper (at least in time, after he's used MacOS X for a while). I say go for it!

[amazing]

Originally posted by JazzCatDRP:
He does the usual web browsing and emailing, but does a lot of intense photoshop work, which is ungodly slow on his tower of course. From talking to him in the past, I think the main reason he's stuck on OS9 is a mix of preferring the old "classic" mac experience and also the fact the OS X would run unbearably slow on his machine.

I'd say to go for it! Just bear in mind that he's going to need an OS X version of either Photoshop, or perhaps Elements version 3.0, which might do everything he needs. I've read good reviews of the new version...

[waffffffle]

The Mac mini would be a great gift for you dad, but you should keep in mind the following:

- Would he be happy using his existing monitor, mouse and keyboard?

- Exactly which OS 9 applications does he use? You mentioned Photoshop. I wouldn't give him a Mac mini unless he has Photoshop 7 (which runs natively in X) or you give him Photoshop with it.

That being said, I usually wouldn't recommend a Mac mini as a gift since by itself it is an incomplete computer. In your case, your dad has the extra pieces needed. It is certainly a good idea to bring your Dad into OS X since he is stuck in the past with OS 9, but it is important to make the transition as smooth as possible for him and his applications are the biggest hurdle.

[JazzCatDRP]

I've considered the Photoshop problem, and actually another sibling would be getting him Elements. He'd be perfectly happy with his current monitor, but would need to get him a new keyboard and mouse, as his current are ADB.

[hldan]

Originally posted by tooki:
Actually, Classic is little like Virtual PC. Virtual PC is an emulator -- that requires massive conversion of functions and emulation of hardware. Classic is a virtual machine: a native-mode computer-within-a-program. Classic does NOT convert any functions. Classic programs run at essentially full speed (realistically, about 95% of the speed compared to being booted directly into OS 9). Emulators incur a huge speed penalty. Virtual machines incur almost none.

tooki

Better said.

[ryaxnb]

The Mini is a great gift for ANY Mac addict with either a laptop:
* Less then 700Mhz G3, less then 600Mhz G4
* OR if using apps such as Photoshop, Illustrator, Director, etc. regularly, less then 900 Mhz G3 or 800 Mhz G4
* Less then 1GB RAM; up RAM on the Mini to the highest amount in the list, as follows:
Basic user, no more then 5 apps/1 user or 2 apps/2 users and no app bigger then Word:
256MB RAM
Normal or semi-pro, no more then 9 normal apps, or 6 apps including 2 pro apps, per user if <3 users. Subtract 2 from each if >2 users:
512MB RAM
Geek w/craving, semi-pro, pro, 10+ apps open, or 8+ apps and >3 users:
1GB RAM
OR if higher, machine has
128MB then get 256MB
256MB then get 384MB/512MB
384MB then get 512MB
512MB then get 512MB
More then 512 then get 1GB
BUT do not get higher then this much if machine has
32MB/Mac OS 9 then get no more then 256MB
64MB/Mac OS 9 then get no more then 512MB
128MB/Mac OS X then get no more then 256MB
256MB/Mac OS X then get no more then 512MB
UNLESS the owner says the machine is REALLY slow.

* Match owner's needs and current drive to new drive:
Lots of Music (over 2,500 songs)
Lots of Photos (over 10,000)
Lots of Movies (over 100)
Lots of Documents (over 20,000)
Lots of Fax Archives (over 2,000)
Lots of Programs (over 100)
Lots of Source Code (over 100 shareware program's worth)
Lots of Games (over 25, not counted in Programs)
If you have <3 of the above, get 40GB. If you have 3, get 80GB if you can. If you have >3, get 80GB. If the current owner is doing fine and not cramped with 30GB or less, get 40GB, however.

* If you got a 40GB drive but 3 of the above apply, you plan to archive a lot of content, or you have a good video camcorder, get a SuperDrive. Otherwise, stick with the Combo.

* Unless you plan to do heavy-duty audio or medium-duty video tasks, stick with the low-end Mini, not 1..42 Ghz model.

* If you have decided to get Airport, get Bluetooth; for $20 more you get another common type of wireless. Otherwise, your choice.

* The Apple Keyboard & Mouse are really nice; I'd recommend them if you don't already have a keyboard and optical mouse. If you have a PS/2 keyboard and mouse, get a PS/2 to USB adapter; they go for as cheap as $8.

If they have a desktop, make sure they don't do extensive disk activity or have a fast graphics card; otherwise, same as above.


It also is a great gift for PC users; stick with this adorable "works every time" system for most switchers:
* 1.25 Ghz G4
* 512 MB RAM
* 40GB or 80GB RAM based on HD table in Mac section
* Free printer
* PS/2 to USB adapter if necessary
* AirPort and Bluetooth.
It will come down to $700-875, probably.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
You'll want a Power Mac G4 that was sold before June 28, 2003 because after that it is 10.2 only. Here is a link to everymac.com that will give you a good idea of what used mac to buy your Dad. This is the mirror door model.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/appl...25_dp_mdd.html

And this site usually finds the places with deals:

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/deals.html#june

Happy Shopping!

Look, I've been OK with sticking with OS 9 up to about mid-2004... now I understand on computers that support it only. If you must use OS 9, also consider the eMac (ATI Graphics, non-SuperDrive,) the iBook G3 800/900, or the PowerBook TiBook 867/1Ghz. Now the thing to do is convince your dad to give X another chance. OS X has reached the point where largrely based ono third-party apps but also its own amazing technology, not to mention far superior computers and support, when you decide to drastically change your computing expeirence (that is, buy a new model or heavily upgrade, or get lots of new software) it's time to move to OS X. Computers, perphierals and software now only supports OS X in the vast majority of cases. Plus, OS X is itself far superior to OS 9 in most ways.