Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

arkmannj · Apr 21, 2005, 12:25 PM

I'm just wondering what folks out there think about the following:

I own a PowerMac G4 QuickSilver (2002) Duel Proc. 1.0GHZ
512MB Ram, GeForce 4 MX 64mb vram.

I am contemplating purchasing an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb vram
for $225.00 (us-$)

what's everyone's thoughts, is it worth the money, will it be an OK system for Tiger and Adobe CS, (and maybe motion for personal use - academic price)
I know it's no screamer compared to a G5 with a ati X800 but I won't be able to afford a new computer for over a year. Would I be best off to save my money to put towards a new computer in a year, or would it be a worth while upgrade until then. (I wouldn't get rid of the G4, just wouldn't be my primary computer anymore)

Any help & thoughts would be >greatly< appreciated !!!
Thanks in advance

bowwowman · Apr 21, 2005, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by arkmannj

I'm just wondering what folks out there think about the following:

I own a PowerMac G4 QuickSilver (2002) Duel Proc. 1.0GHZ
512MB Ram, GeForce 4 MX 64mb vram.

I am contemplating purchasing an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb vram
for $225.00 (us-$)

what's everyone's thoughts, is it worth the money, will it be an OK system for Tiger and Adobe CS, (and maybe motion for personal use - academic price)
I know it's no screamer compared to a G5 with a ati X800 but I won't be able to afford a new computer for over a year. Would I be best off to save my money to put towards a new computer in a year, or would it be a worth while upgrade until then. (I wouldn't get rid of the G4, just wouldn't be my primary computer anymore)

Any help & thoughts would be >greatly< appreciated !!!
Thanks in advance

Max da ram first, then go for other stuff. A new video card wont help CS at all, but will speed up the GUI and other eye candy in Tiger.

Link · Apr 21, 2005, 12:41 PM

If you're willing to save $75, get one of these and flash it over.. rather simple process (you also have to put magic tape on a pin or two I'm sure), and the card's essentially the same as the mac card.

arkmannj · Apr 21, 2005, 06:15 PM

so do you think it's worth the $$ for me to do it ? or should I just save the cash for later ?

Link · Apr 21, 2005, 11:44 PM

You've got a dual ghz man, those things have got quite some life left in them

At $150 for a 9800 (or maybe less if you just do a 9600xt and tape mod it), you'll see a nice performance boost (a 9600 is much faster than a geforce 4mx or 2mx, the 9800 is a lot faster than the 9600, so it's impossible to compare lol).. so you end up with interesting stuff.

Then again, it helps to play SOME sort of game from time to time (emulation, even).. but I'm sure tiger has plenty of toys that'll see a boost.

MORT A POTTY · Apr 22, 2005, 12:59 AM

yes, an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition is worth the price, but for what you're going to be doing? I'm not so sure.

you will see a larger benefit if you double up on the RAM first though. but the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition is definitely a nice GPU. but won't really help you in Adobe CS.

OreoCookie · Apr 22, 2005, 03:36 AM

I think the 9800 is overkill for your system. A 9600 would be sufficient to have all the latest whistles and bells, but probably a better deal.

crooner · Apr 22, 2005, 03:39 AM

These guys have nailed it.

FWIW, I have the exact same Mac and I, like you, can't afford to go hog wild and get a new Mac now, but I still want to beef up my QuickSilver to help make Tiger Snappier�.

I have 1.5GB of RAM. You need to do this. NEED. I only wish there were 1GB sticks that could work in this thing so I could put 3GB in it.

Anyhow, after the RAM, I'd do the 9800. That's just what I'm going to do. If you're adventurous, try the mod that Link suggests. Me, I'm a worrier, so I'll play it safe.

Another thing you can do is start thinking about how things you buy now could fit in with a new Mac months down the line. For instance, I'll need to get a drive or two soon. What'll I do? I'll get SATA drives and a SATA PCI card. This will allow me to build a fast and easy RAID to add pep to the system *AND* will easily migrate over to a new system whenever Apple finds a way to make a dual (or quad

) 3Ghz G5 that doesn't have to cooled by the main tank at Sea World. And if I go nuts? Sure... maybe even a dual 1.8Ghz Giga Design CPU upgrade. Only if I go nuts, though (short trip).

Get the RAM and the video card. You'll be a happy camper.

arkmannj · Apr 22, 2005, 02:08 PM

great advice, thank you all for your thoughts...
/me runs to count my penny jar

powertrippin · Apr 22, 2005, 02:35 PM

Get a 9600. It supports core image, and it's a lot cheaper than a 9800. Also, a 9800 requires more power, has a fan (noiser) and it only has ONE digital out (which is freakin lame).

- Rob

Link · Apr 22, 2005, 03:06 PM

I've been thinking over what to do next with my g4, currently the best thing I did was stick a piece of kleenex under the back leg of my display so it stopped sliding back *grin*... but the 9600 was a great mod, and if you get the XT version it's 128mb as well!

The "mod" to a 9600 is VERY simple. You take some scotch magic tape, and a pair of scissors and cut 2 really tiny pieces (good to have a steady hand) -- just big enough to cover the 3rd pin and the 11th pin from the "back plate" of the card. Some people put tape over said pins and then cut it just right with an exacto knife, so if you have one of those that might work better. If you need a 'scan' of this I can give ya one later, perhaps. Either way, a very simple mod -- the worst that happens is if you do it wrong the computer won't turn on until you get it right.. OH AND UNPLUG IT BEFORE PUTTING IN A NEW VIDEO CARD, this applies no matter what you stick in there.

The 9800 is nice, and if you don't need dual dvi then it's fine, if you want dual dvi or can get a good deal, the 9600xt is a great deal too.

Agent69 · Apr 22, 2005, 03:09 PM

Would this work?

Link · Apr 22, 2005, 03:16 PM

Yes, but it's a lot more expensive than can be had on ebay

C.A.S. · Apr 22, 2005, 11:19 PM

Silly question...

What apps really take advantage of the Core Image/Video besides Tiger and Motion??? And how hard will it be for developers to implement it on their apps???

I would love to see apps like VLC supercharged by using the GPU for mpeg2 decoding.

IFLY2HIGH · Apr 23, 2005, 02:37 AM

Just thinking out loud here, doesn't Motion need a G5 to run?

MORT A POTTY · Apr 23, 2005, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by IFLY2HIGH

Just thinking out loud here, doesn't Motion need a G5 to run?

nope

arkmannj · Apr 23, 2005, 10:36 AM

I should have joined MacNN forums ages ago, lots of good info around here.

anyhow, no I don't need two DVI.. in-fact at the moment I don't need one, I'm glad the 9800 comes with a DVI to VGA adapter as I have 2 CRT's and no flat panels yet

thought ya'll would like to know that I did order the 9800 pro (for 224.00 after shipping & tax)
I wanted to do the mod version, but my wife saw that glimmer in my eye I get when I get to play with soldering irons or exacto knives and thus instructed I get the retail version... hehe
(kind of the same scenario in home improvement when Tim would want to supercharge something and his wife would say no LOL)

also I'm taking everyones advice and getting an extra GIG of ram for a total of 1.5GB
(I think that's the max my computer can have)

and yes motion will run on a G4.. I guess I'll find out how well though

crooner · Apr 24, 2005, 06:04 AM

Some of this has been discussed in a similar thread here regarding Core Image and graphics cards, but I figure since we're on a roll here I might as well post this:

As I said earlier, I have the same Mac - dual 1Ghz QuickSilver. My current display setup is as follows:
22" Apple Cinema Display run off ADC connector
SGI 1600SW flat panel run off DVI port through an SGI MultiLink adapter.
SGI 1600SW run off an older Formac Proformance III PCI card. This card is not officially supported by Panther but is made operable by entering the following into Terminal and restarting:

sudo nvram boot-args="romndrv=1"

(Whoever came up with that is in my prayers. I hope they can figure out something similar if the same command doesn't hold true under Tiger)

Seeing as the ADC connector on the modded 9600 is un-powered, then I have pretty much decided on the 9800. Running one SGI via the VGA adapter through the MultiLink is not too bad a hardship as the 1600SWs flank the 22" and are mostly for palettes and extra stuff. The 9800 will, however, necessitate some sort of DVI to ADC adapter. Are these the doohickeys that cost abound $99 or those other things that are closer to $250? Either scenario sucks.
So this leads me to wonder... is there any card that will work in a QuickSilver that has dual digital outs (preferably with at least one powered ADC connector) available (retail or eBay)? I've not been able to find such an animal, leaving me with the 9800 as my only option. Then I still have to deal with getting the Proformance III to work. If it won't then I need to get some PCI graphics card to support the second SGI. What options might you guys suggest for that?

This whole thing is getting very ugly and expensive way too fast. Is there even a PCI card that will work on this setup that anyone knows of?

I realize that I'm starting to get into new Mac territory as far as spending goes, but if I were to get a G5 I'd only want to bite of I could go top o' the line in every respect. I don�t want to back into it, ya know?

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas?

TIA

arkmannj · Apr 24, 2005, 11:49 AM

Formac Proformance III PCI card, i bet you could find a good priced radeon 9200 128mb for pci slot.

just out of curiosity, I know I've seen mods for ATI cards (thanks link) but are there any for the NVIDIA cards

the ATI X800 has an ADC port, that might be able to be modded ?

I'm not the resident expert obviously but there's a couple thoughts I had.

littlegreenspud · Apr 24, 2005, 02:12 PM

The GeForce 4 Ti has dual digital outs, one of which is an ADC. BUT it is not supported by Core Video.

Tyler McAdams · Apr 25, 2005, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by crooner

Some of this has been discussed in a similar thread here regarding Core Image and graphics cards, but I figure since we're on a roll here I might as well post this:

As I said earlier, I have the same Mac - dual 1Ghz QuickSilver. My current display setup is as follows:
22" Apple Cinema Display run off ADC connector
SGI 1600SW flat panel run off DVI port through an SGI MultiLink adapter.
SGI 1600SW run off an older Formac Proformance III PCI card. This card is not officially supported by Panther but is made operable by entering the following into Terminal and restarting:

sudo nvram boot-args="romndrv=1"

(Whoever came up with that is in my prayers. I hope they can figure out something similar if the same command doesn't hold true under Tiger)

Seeing as the ADC connector on the modded 9600 is un-powered, then I have pretty much decided on the 9800. Running one SGI via the VGA adapter through the MultiLink is not too bad a hardship as the 1600SWs flank the 22" and are mostly for palettes and extra stuff. The 9800 will, however, necessitate some sort of DVI to ADC adapter. Are these the doohickeys that cost abound $99 or those other things that are closer to $250? Either scenario sucks.
So this leads me to wonder... is there any card that will work in a QuickSilver that has dual digital outs (preferably with at least one powered ADC connector) available (retail or eBay)? I've not been able to find such an animal, leaving me with the 9800 as my only option. Then I still have to deal with getting the Proformance III to work. If it won't then I need to get some PCI graphics card to support the second SGI. What options might you guys suggest for that?

This whole thing is getting very ugly and expensive way too fast. Is there even a PCI card that will work on this setup that anyone knows of?

I realize that I'm starting to get into new Mac territory as far as spending goes, but if I were to get a G5 I'd only want to bite of I could go top o' the line in every respect. I don�t want to back into it, ya know?

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas?

TIA

I have a similar setup... DP 533 Digital Audio... currently with a nVidia 4600 128MB card powering an SGI F150 via DVI to ADC adapter and a 21" SGI Trinitron monitor powered by the DVI impute with a DVI to VGA adapter.

My reasons for upgrading to the ATI 9800 are simple (I've already bought it... waiting for it to make it in the mail) I want to simplify the imputs for one... all these damn adapters are messy... not to mention can impede singnal strength and quality. Also, the 9800 is a little faster and it's full core image ready.

Those multilink adapters you've got are really nice, but they get a little messey as well. I would almost look on ebay for an old formac vidoe card that has native connections for the 1600's you have.... you can get them pretty cheap too... just search ebay with "SGI".

Link · Apr 25, 2005, 05:19 PM

The ADC adaptor is $99, yes... a lot bigger than I ever thought a power adaptor needed to be too lol.

GORDYmac · Apr 26, 2005, 11:11 AM

ATI ADC DVI VGA--I'm getting bogged down reading this thread.

Is there a Core Image supported card that--without mods--supports ADC Monitors?

Quicksilver here too.

Amacapart · Apr 26, 2005, 01:18 PM

Since you put it that way.......No, there isn't.

GORDYmac · Apr 26, 2005, 03:52 PM

Thanks. So, if I'm reading correctly, any DVI card I bought, I have to tack $100 bucks on it since I'll need a DVI-ADC adapter.

ADC, how soon we forget thee...

Amacapart · Apr 26, 2005, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by GORDYmac

Thanks. So, if I'm reading correctly, any DVI card I bought, I have to tack $100 bucks on it since I'll need a DVI-ADC adapter.

ADC, how soon we forget thee...

Well, you can save yourself the $100 if you do the ADC mod on a 9600.

Not TOO hard and the $100 you save pays for a 9600 XT.

I've done a coupkle of them, worked great in my QS. Only weirdness is the On/Off switch on monitor isn't functional, you just turn on from CPU power button instead. Otherwise, they are 100% G4 functional.

GORDYmac · Apr 26, 2005, 06:08 PM

So, the monitor button won't work at all--e.g., no irritating pulsing all night?

lenox · Apr 28, 2005, 11:53 AM

With that modded 9600...you CAN get it to support powered ADC, however, you'll need to A.) butcher an old pci or isa card of some sort (for parts) and B) do some soldering. Not sure if it's worth it to ya.

powertrippin · Apr 28, 2005, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by GORDYmac

So, the monitor button won't work at all--e.g., no irritating pulsing all night?

Nope. Kinda sucks, I liked that little light.

Amacapart · Apr 28, 2005, 02:41 PM

Light works fine, it just doesn't work as a switch.

"Display Prefs" button & USB are also fine. If you can do the mod, it is worth the $100 savings and lack of additional clutter.

GORDYmac · Apr 28, 2005, 05:16 PM

I know my way around a soldering iron, just didn't want to unnecessarily. Looks like it's necessary.

I guess I can find detailed instructions on the 9600 mod over at XLR8YourMac, right? Anywhere else--other than MacFixIt?

Amacapart · Apr 28, 2005, 06:35 PM

Actually, no.

http://www.techseekers.net/modules.p...tent&id=71

When I did it, I cut a piece of AGP connector from a dead old card. I soldered wires, but you must be careful of the two smaller connections, don't include them. Then, I epoxied the tab in place. It is important when soldering the wires that they not go to far down, or card won't fit into slot well and will pivot at that point.

I also filed the result down to fit better. Done right, it's a cool rig. And saving $100 for an extra Adapter kludge is nice.

JMaloney · May 11, 2005, 03:11 AM

SGI 1600SW Video Card

Greetings All,
I'm no computer wiz soi I thought I would seek some advice from you guys. I have an SGI 1600SW flat panel monitor. I just purchased a Mac G5 Dual 2.3 computer with Tiger OS. Apparently my existing Formac Proformance 3 video card that I used in my Mac G4 to drive the SGI monitor will not work in the new G5 computer. At startup I get a black screen and the Sony won't even fire up. Ipulled the Formac card out and the Sony fired right up but that leabves me without my SGI 1600SW monitor to use.
Do you know of video cards support my SGI 1600SW monitor with the new MAC G5's and Tiger OS? If so, what is the cost and availability?
All info is appreciated.

Jeff Maloney
maloney1@pacbell.net
San Jose, CA.

crooner · May 11, 2005, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by JMaloney

SGI 1600SW Video Card

Greetings All,
I'm no computer wiz soi I thought I would seek some advice from you guys. I have an SGI 1600SW flat panel monitor. I just purchased a Mac G5 Dual 2.3 computer with Tiger OS. Apparently my existing Formac Proformance 3 video card that I used in my Mac G4 to drive the SGI monitor will not work in the new G5 computer. At startup I get a black screen and the Sony won't even fire up. Ipulled the Formac card out and the Sony fired right up but that leabves me without my SGI 1600SW monitor to use.
Do you know of video cards support my SGI 1600SW monitor with the new MAC G5's and Tiger OS? If so, what is the cost and availability?
All info is appreciated.

Jeff Maloney
maloney1@pacbell.net
San Jose, CA.

Jeff,
on the chance you didn’t try this, boot your G5, open Terminal application and type (or copy and paste):

sudo nvram boot-args="romndrv=1"

Quit Terminal and shutdown. Install the Proformance III and restart. See if this solves the problem. While this did allow for the Proformance III to work under Panther on a G4), my guess is that it won't work with Tiger - still, it’s worth a shot.
My reasoning for this is that under Panther, with the Pro III installed, my G4 would boot fine, but the SGI 1600SW attached to the Pro III would only display a white screen. Other displays would be fine. The fact that you say you're getting a black screen on your Sony display leaves me to assume that this may be a more serious hardware issue. Nevertheless, try the terminal command. It may just do the trick.
If not, you'll need to get a hold of a PCI video card and an SGI MultiLink adapter.

Please post your results. Good luck.

OreoCookie · May 12, 2005, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by JMaloney

SGI 1600SW Video Card

Greetings All,
I'm no computer wiz soi I thought I would seek some advice from you guys. I have an SGI 1600SW flat panel monitor. I just purchased a Mac G5 Dual 2.3 computer with Tiger OS. Apparently my existing Formac Proformance 3 video card that I used in my Mac G4 to drive the SGI monitor will not work in the new G5 computer. At startup I get a black screen and the Sony won't even fire up. Ipulled the Formac card out and the Sony fired right up but that leabves me without my SGI 1600SW monitor to use.
Do you know of video cards support my SGI 1600SW monitor with the new MAC G5's and Tiger OS? If so, what is the cost and availability?
All info is appreciated.

Jeff Maloney
maloney1@pacbell.net
San Jose, CA.

The SGI lcd is using a non-standard DVI connection. Hence you'll find many special adapters for that lcd on ebay.