[ROBO58]

I'm 24 hours into a new Mac Mini with Tiger coming from the Windows XP world. So far my experience is a bummer.

I have not found a method to import all my Outlook Express messages. I don't have a mail server nor do I have MS Entourage. I sure could use some advice on how to get my messages using my PC, an Ethernet connection and the Mac Mini.

iPhoto has locked up several times on me importing my photos from XP. It also lumped all my photos together instead of keeping them in seperate folders that I had on the PC. I have about 3000 photos and they are organized in folders to signify the occasion or event. I tried copying a single XP folder with pictures to an iPhoto Film Roll. While it worked it would not let me rename the film roll to make a unique container. Creating an iPhoto folder and copying XP photo files to it wasn't anymore successful.

While I've searched and read the advice columns on the web I am no closer to solutions. I'm sure these are teething pains and that experienced users can point me in the right direction.

So please share your suggestions and advice.
Thanks Robo-Red

[chabig]

Welcome. You will find that these are indeed teething pains. I can't help with the Outlook messages, but for iPhoto you should have good luck importing one folder at a time. I think you get to name the film roll at import time. Even if you don't, you should be able to make an album in the left panel. Then open the last import roll and drag everything in it to your new album.

Chris

[legacyb4]

Mail - did you subscribe to .mac? If so, you should be able to mount your .mac mail account as an IMAP account on your PC. Drag your mail to your .mac account and it should move over effortlessly.

iPhoto - everyone coming over from the PC world goes through the same issues with iPhoto/iTunes. Basically, if you are going to use either, it's best to get over the urge to manage your data on the Finder/File Explorer level and to simply use the application to browse/export your data instead.

Hope that helps.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by legacyb4

Mail - did you subscribe to .mac? If so, you should be able to mount your .mac mail account as an IMAP account on your PC. Drag your mail to your .mac account and it should move over effortlessly.

iPhoto - everyone coming over from the PC world goes through the same issues with iPhoto/iTunes. Basically, if you are going to use either, it's best to get over the urge to manage your data on the Finder/File Explorer level and to simply use the application to browse/export your data instead.

Hope that helps.

Concerning IMAP copying, aren't you (legacyb4) assuming that he used IMAP mail on his PC? It does not sound like he was using IMAP previously. To the original poster, there are obvious bugs with Tiger Mail's import function. Although I have only read about issues with importing Mac mail, I imagine there may well be problems with PC importing as well. You may want to use Thunderbird until Apple works those bugs out.

As far as iPhoto is concerned, it has its own organizational method that will be incompatible with your previous organizational effort. If you are determined to continue using your own structure, you may want to get an image browsing program - a number are available commercially.

[ideasculptor]

You can rename rolls in iPhoto. I've done it. I'm not sitting on a mac, currently, so I can't tell you how, but it is definitely possible. I remember having to search for it a bit. Try browsing around a bit more.

One of my biggest peeves with both iPhoto and iTunes is that they assume that your ONLY interface into those files is the program in question. They both take over your directory structure and give you no flexibility. So long as you only interact with those programs, their interfaces provide a great mechanism to navigate around your library via metadata. But try to store your media files in a place where other apps can use them, or share the drive over to a windows box, and the directory structure of iPhoto gets REALLY annoying. iTunes' internal structure isn't so obnoxious, although I tend to maintain my own directory stucture and then 'import without copy' in order to retain my structure. I don't think iPhoto gives you that option, although I haven't tried. Maybe it does. It does mean that every time you import something via the iApp, you then have to manually copy the files from Music or Pictures to the location in your self-maintained structure, then delete the files from the iApp and re-add them from their new location.

Simply allowing a user to define any directory structure based on available metadata fields would be all that is necessary to make me happy. I store my audio files in Music/Genre/Artist/Album structure, and I find it assinine that I can't tell iTunes, which is iexcellent in so many other way, to store audio in the same structure.

As for your mail problem, I don't have a suggestion for the short term. However, are you really never going to buy MS Office? That seems like one of those apps that just about everyone uses, especially if they interact with windows folks, as you seem to. Go out and buy the student/teacher edition of Office 2004 for less than $100 and you'll have entourage, which should have import abilities, although I don't know for sure. I've never been an outlook user.

--sam

[ROBO58]

Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming.

To answer a few questions. My ISP doesn't provide IMAP mail, just POP. Another issue is I belong to many mail lists and use the wisdom in these lists as a large database when looking for suggestions and advice.

I have 200,000 individual emails that combined with Spotlight are very powerful.

In buying the Mac Mini I was trying avoid rubbing elbows with Microsoft. My goal is to use all the Apple applications and tools.

Having been a PC user since the early days a certain organization mindset has taken over. I happen to like organizing my information in certain categories (email folders, picture folders, music folders, etc.).

While I can relate to the mass grouping of pictures, songs and mail I'm not sure I'm 100% ready for mass metadata tagging and retreaval. I want the functionality but I also want the security of my previous organizational efforts.

I'm still out to lunch on iPhoto. I copied about 4500 photos into a folder on the Mac Mini. This folder has many sub-folders that are individual special events and family functions. When I drag and drop a subdirectory with pictures onto a film roll it brings them over (slowly).

When complete it will not let me rename the film roll. If I drag the pictures from the finished film roll to a new iPhoto folder they then exist in both locations. If I attempt to delete the pictures in the film roll they also get deleted in the folder. I believe the also some how end up lumped into the library by date.

I'm obviously working against iPhoto in some way but don't have an understanding of what's going on. I would like my individual folders with pictures and still enjoy the benefits of iPhoto.

Is there a way to do this ?

Thanks again
Robo

[ep_909]

Originally Posted by ROBO58

I have not found a method to import all my Outlook Express messages. I don't have a mail server nor do I have MS Entourage. I sure could use some advice on how to get my messages using my PC, an Ethernet connection and the Mac Mini.

Locate the Outlook Express database on your PC (*.PST extension) and burn that to a CD or copy it to your Mini through your network. Then in the OS X Mail App: File -> Import Mailboxes... -> Outlook Express -> Choose your *.PST file

I don't know about any issues with iPhoto. Did you do an upgrade from Panther to Tiger or did you do a fresh install of Tiger?

[freak_in_pekin]

I'm not sure that you'll be able to use individual folders but, per iPhoto's Help, I found this:

Renaming a film roll

After you've imported a group of photos, you can change the name of their film roll.

1. Select Library in the Source list.

2. If you don't see film roll icons in the viewing area, choose View > Film Rolls.

3. Click the film roll.

4. Type a new name in the Title field.

[Judge_Fire]

In iPhoto,

you can drag folders from Finder and drop them to the Albums sidebar. This imports the pics and creates an album based on the folder name.

Unfortunately, only one folder at a time. (Dragging more folders puts them in one album.)

J

[legacyb4]

That's why my first question was "did you subscribe to .mac"? Just pointing out a simple fix for folks new to the IMAP world.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Concerning IMAP copying, aren't you (legacyb4) assuming that he used IMAP mail on his PC? It does not sound like he was using IMAP previously.

[indigoimac]

How are you importing to iPhoto over e-net or somehting else, this may be why the importing is slow OR it may be due to the laptop drive that is in the MacMini OR it may be due to how much memory you have. What version did you get 80gig or 40gig, I sorta hope you got the 40gig cause an external HD would reallt help! Also more memory will help assuming that you have the stock 256. Hope some of this helps, indigo Good Luck and keep at it, It will get better and you will soon find yourself not being able to live w/o your mac!

[mportuesi]

Originally Posted by ROBO58

I'm still out to lunch on iPhoto. I copied about 4500 photos into a folder on the Mac Mini. This folder has many sub-folders that are individual special events and family functions. When I drag and drop a subdirectory with pictures onto a film roll it brings them over (slowly).

When complete it will not let me rename the film roll. If I drag the pictures from the finished film roll to a new iPhoto folder they then exist in both locations. If I attempt to delete the pictures in the film roll they also get deleted in the folder. I believe the also some how end up lumped into the library by date.

I'm obviously working against iPhoto in some way but don't have an understanding of what's going on. I would like my individual folders with pictures and still enjoy the benefits of iPhoto.

Is there a way to do this ?

When you import photos (say from a digital camera), iPhoto creates a "roll" in your Library for each import. If you import a group of folders by drag-n-drop or by the import menu command, iPhoto will create a roll for each folder imported. You cannot rename rolls (well, you can but the iPhoto designers don't really want you to) and if you delete photos from rolls they are gone for good.

The main way to organize pictures in iPhoto is through albums. You create an album, choose photos in one or more rolls, then drag them into the album. You can rename the album, reorganize photos in the album, etc. If you delete a photo from an album, the photo is gone from the album but remains in the roll that it was imported into.

You can also create "smart albums" whose contents are based on keywords, photo ratings (one to five stars), etc. You can also select a bunch of photos from several rolls, then create a new album from the selected photos.

To summarize: use rolls to do "raw" manipulations after import, mainly trashing botched photos you don't want to keep. Then use albums to do all your organization.

Finally, you might look into a good book about iPhoto to help you learn its particular "take" on photo management. I recommend "iPhoto: The Missing Manual". I think the version for iPhoto 5 might be out now. I have the version of the book for iPhoto 4.

hope this helps.

[sworthy]

I think the biggest adjustment for me was the paradigm **** from folders to database. In apps like iTunes and iPhoto, the library is simply a place where all of your photos are located (and yes, in chronological order, though you can make it in reverse chronological order if you like). Then, if you have iPhoto 5, you can assign key words and other characteristics. iPhoto does support nested albums, so after you get all of your photos imported you can mess around with how you wold like iPhoto to display them.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by ROBO58

I'm still out to lunch on iPhoto......I'm obviously working against iPhoto in some way but don't have an understanding of what's going on. I would like my individual folders with pictures and still enjoy the benefits of iPhoto.
Is there a way to do this ?

ROBO58, I am a long-time Mac user, and I have the same problem with iPhoto. Actually, iTunes is much less impertinent. It will leave your order as it is if you tell it to. There's an option in preferences>Advanced "Keep iTunes Music folder organized", which lets you keep your order or let it manage it. And "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library", lets you keep a separate copy for iTunes, or just one.

iPhoto, on the other hand, will duplicate all your files, with no option to do otherwise, and insists upon its own organizational structure. I have a problem with this also. What I do is keep my photos organized in my folders and copy some albums I want to see in iPhoto occasionally. So I keep both. This is not ideal, of course, and wastes space. But, it's the only real work around at this time. I hope Apple gets the message that people like the option to organize their photos themselves.

[chabig]

I am happy to let iPhoto organize my photos. When I need to use a photo outside of iPhoto I simply drag it out. I think of iPhoto as long-term storage.

Chris

[mportuesi]

I'm also happy to let iPhoto organize my photos.

It is true that iPhoto does impose it's own on-disk structure. But the designers of iPhoto really want you to forget about the way they're organized on disk, in favor of doing things the way they're organized in iPhoto.

It's tough to let go of the filesystem this way, but once you do you start to realize that organizing through iPhoto is actually less work and more powerful (keywords, ratings, etc) than doing it through folders in the Finder.

And if you want to export a photo, or even an entire iPhoto album, you can just drag it out into a Finder window. So I don't really feel like I'm losing much in the bargain.

[ROBO58]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the iPhoto advice and tips. I now have a better understanding of what's going on with the application. I did some more importing and testing and I see how the film rolls operate and I can live with that functionality. I didn't understand how to use a Photo Album versus a Folder. Since I come from the PC the folder is a natural first step.

I also found a Windows Application that converts DBX files to Mbox files. The application let me import all my Outlook Express emails to the MAC. The application is called DbxConv and available at: http://people.freenet.de/ukrebs/dbxconv.html

You open a DOS window to run DbxConv and convert a DBX file at a time. You then copy them to your MAC via a backbone connection or CD/DVD to do the importing. Once on the MAC you do need to rename the .Mbx suffix to .Mbox so Mail will recognize the files.

Mail imported at a rate of 90 emails a minute which required an outrageous 27 hours for 150,000 emails.

It would be nice if the Apple folks included a translation tool like DbxConv for those PC crossovers like me.

Thanks for all the coaching. I hope to be able to return the wisdom for those who come after me.

Robo

[chabig]

Originally Posted by ROBO58

I hope to be able to return the wisdom for those who come after me.

It looks like you're off to a great start. Thank for telling us about DbxConv.

Chris

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by mportuesi

You cannot rename rolls (well, you can but the iPhoto designers don't really want you to) and if you delete photos from rolls they are gone for good.

What are you talking about?

Click on the roll name that you want to rename. Then look over to the left in the sidebar area where you see the box that says "Information". Double click on the line that says "Title Roll XX". Rename it.

Come on. iPhoto is EASY. You just have to get out of the mindset of keeping things somewhere else on your computer. Import directly into iPhoto. Create rolls. Name them whatever you want. Change the name later at any time if you want. Highlight and drag and drop photos to make albums or smart albums.

A Mac is not a PC. It is easier if you will let it be. Have fun and welcome to the forums.

[all2ofme]

Bit OT - but there seems to be an iPhoto slant now:

What bothers me with iPhoto is that it's not clear if the original files are being kept. And if they are - where?

And how is it best done to use Photoshop to edit the photos that you've imported into iPhoto?

[Randman]

In iPhoto, you can set preferences on using other apps such as PS.

[chabig]

What bothers me with iPhoto is that it's not clear if the original files are being kept. And if they are - where?

They are kept inside iPhoto. If you want to see the original again, duplicate the photo so you don't lose changes you've made, then on the duplicate photo, select Revert to Original.

And how is it best done to use Photoshop to edit the photos that you've imported into iPhoto?

As Randman suggested, you can make Photoshop your default editor, or if you just want to use Photoshop occasionally you can keep the preferences set to edit in iPhoto, and control-click to open in Photoshop. Or you can drag photos out of iPhoto when you want to use Photoshop.

Chris

[polendo]

Robo, great find (for the emails).
There is a big distinction on how Outlook and Outlook Express works with email messages. Outlook Express has a single file for every folder you have, while Outlook handles one single file for all folders. Entourage can import from Outlook, but not from Outlook Express. Anyway, that converstion utility is a nice tool. Thanks.

[kman42]

Tips for thinking about iPhoto:

1) Film rolls are just that. They are like your NEGATIVES. They are the originals. You keep the ones you want in a safe place (your library) and you keep them in a BASIC organizational paradigm (chronological).

2) Photo albums are just that. These are collections of your PHOTOS (copies of the negatives) organized HOWEVER YOU WANT. You can do it by theme, place, person, season, time, date, vacation, whatever. You can have as many copies of your photos as you want in as many different albums as you want. Photo albums are the building blocks for other elements, such as slideshows, books, or ordering prints.

3) Smart albums are like albums, but they organize themselves based on keywords or metadata that you select.

4) Folders are a bit confusing as they contain other folders or albums. You can't really stick a photo album in a folder in real life, so you have to think of folders in the computer desktop sense: they are simply containers. Folders are for overarching organization: My Vacations, My Adventures, My Hikes, My Girlfriend, etc. Of course, you can make them as flexible as you like.

This is a just a rough outline of how I think about the iPhoto paradigm, but I think it is pretty close to what the developers had in mind and it make iPhoto easy to work with.

kman

[TJKong]

Originally Posted by ROBO58

I also found a Windows Application that converts DBX files to Mbox files. The application let me import all my Outlook Express emails to the MAC. The application is called DbxConv and available at: http://people.freenet.de/ukrebs/dbxconv.html

You open a DOS window to run DbxConv and convert a DBX file at a time. You then copy them to your MAC via a backbone connection or CD/DVD to do the importing. Once on the MAC you do need to rename the .Mbx suffix to .Mbox so Mail will recognize the files.

Mail imported at a rate of 90 emails a minute which required an outrageous 27 hours for 150,000 emails.

Its been a while, but I used that program to move my outlook express mail. I believe I simply dropped the .mbox files into ~/Library/Mail/Mailboxes/ and opened Mail. Each .mbox was available as a folder in Mail.

[- - e r i k - -]

Oh, and once you start adding keywords to your photos and creating Smart Albums based on them you wouldn't have it any other way.

[kellybelly]

Originally Posted by kcmac

Click on the roll name that you want to rename. Then look over to the left in the sidebar area where you see the box that says "Information". Double click on the line that says "Title Roll XX". Rename it.

AFAIK, it doesn't work this way in iPhoto 5.

Yes, in iPhoto 4 it was that simple (I did it all the time before I upgraded to iLife '05), but I spent a few minutes trying to figure out how to rename a roll in iPhoto 5. Seems that you need to click on the film roll, open its info box (little "i" in the lower left corner), then click on the Title field to change the name.

To someone not familiar with iPhoto (or familiar with iPhoto 4 and down), it's not that obvious how to rename a film roll.

[permionix]

kcmac said

iPhoto is EASY. You just have to get out of the mindset of keeping things somewhere else on your computer. Import directly into iPhoto.

from personal experience, i've found importing directly into iPhoto dangerous. for hundreds or thousands of pictures it may be OK, but once you start to get to tens of thousands of pictures and your iPhoto database gets corrupted - you're in for a world of hurt, if you can't recover the photos from a corrupted iPhoto database. Sometimes you can, sometimes you CAN'T recover the photos from a corrumpted iPhoto database.

importing pictures from a camera or card reader first into finder folders, then duplicating the import in iPhoto or import in iPhoto from the finder folders ensures that you've always got the original pictures saved if, sorry replace that with WHEN, your iPoto database gets corrupted. yes you could probably live with duplicating the iPhoto database, but it's safer to do the backup before iPhoto gets its hands on your pictures.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by permionix

from personal experience, i've found importing directly into iPhoto dangerous.....t's safer to do the backup before iPhoto gets its hands on your pictures.

This is my problem with iPhoto. I don't trust it. And who's to say that the format won't change over the years, or that you might want to transfer it someday to a Linux system or (heaven forbid) a Windoze system? Yes, yes you can export, but I want more control over my photo files.

If you'd like to enjoy the benefits of iPhoto, I suggest you backup a separate, non-iPhoto copy of your photo files first. Just copy them via the Finder and then import them to iPhoto, so that you'll have both. My photos are some of the most valuable files for me personally on my Mac, and I wouldn't trust any particular proprietary format or automatic management with them.

[Jasoco]

I wish I could remember how my friend and I figured out how to get all his email to his new iMac when he switched. It was a page on Apple's site and when we followed the steps, it all happened literally instantly. Damn.. Can't remember.

Anyway, upgrade that RAM! I have a Gig in mine with a 20" display and it purrs like a baby tiger.

I switched in 2000 when OS 9 was the latest thing! Give it time. You will love it. It took a massive virus attack and half his HD lost to make my friend finally go from "Mac's suck. LOL" to "I gotta get away from this POS OS." (I was shocked the day he emailed me asking if he could come to MWNY '01 with me.) All it took to switch me was 8 years of frustration and the inability to get Linux to work. (If it weren't for Linux's then relatively asinine installers and BeOS' inability to connect to the internet for me, I would have never considered the Mac OS.)

[mportuesi]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

This is my problem with iPhoto. I don't trust it. And who's to say that the format won't change over the years, or that you might want to transfer it someday to a Linux system or (heaven forbid) a Windoze system? Yes, yes you can export, but I want more control over my photo files..

Interesting that you say this. I'm a long-time Linux user who recently bought a Mini to replace an aging iMac 400, and sit next to my Linux box on my desk. Since buying the Mini, I've moved all my photos into iPhoto (and the rest of my data onto the Mac as well - I guess that makes me a "switcher").

Yes, iPhoto's storage system is proprietary, but it's not holding your photos hostage -- because you don't require iPhoto to access them. iPhoto stores your pictures in standard folders on the disk. It's just that its method of organization isn't the same as the one you'd choose. You can back up iPhoto simply by backing up its Pictures folder on your hard drive. If iPhoto screws the pooch, you can still get to your pictures simply by navigating to them in the Finder.

If you want to move your pictures back to a different app or platform, you can do that. Either export from iPhoto itself by dragging to the desktop, or just grab the pictures from the Finder.

I certainly reserve the right to move my pictures back to an open-source image management system, should one ever come along that's nice to use. I'm not afraid that iPhoto will preclude that.

Do whatever you'd like, but personally I think you're letting superstition make more work for yourself and defeat the purpose of using iPhoto.

[power142]

I agree - the only thing you lose by iPhoto barfing someday is any additional info you have added to label the images, such as names and keywords (at least some of which is in the xml data file). Nothing that can't be overcome by standard data protection procedures. Everyone here who periodically makes a backup of all their data to another disk/computer please raise their hand.... ahh... I thought as much

All your photos are organized by date in Pictures/iPhoto Library (by default)... for example, 2005/05/01 contains the pictures I took on May 1st of this year. Unless you took literally hundreds or thousands of pics on a given day, then I can't imagine it presents a problem - and you should probably use something else for lots of pics.

One neat thing I learned about iPhoto a while back is that if you've made adjustments to an image, iPhoto makes a backup of the original into the Originals folder in the relevant date location.

[Jasoco]

I hate iPhoto anyway. I prefer to organize my images myself. Graphic Converter or Photoshop do the deed well.

[Agent69]

Originally Posted by Jasoco

I hate iPhoto anyway. I prefer to organize my images myself. Graphic Converter or Photoshop do the deed well.

I am kind of the same, I prefer to manage things myself. I also have Graphic Converter and a really nice application called ViewIt that I use to view my photos. And Tiger will be really useful for this kind of management, as you can add searchable metadata comments through the get info boxes.

[Jasoco]

If iPhoto could be an Image Browser than an Image Manager, i.e. it keeps files where they are and browses say, your entire Pictures folder, and doesn't move anything or create second copies as thumbnails, it'd be fine. But I'd only use it for the UI. I love the interface, Photoshop and GC don't have the interface iPhoto has. But iPhoto just doesn't do what I want it to do!

So no iPhoto for me. I just wish the GraphicConverter person would Cocoa-ize the app already and give it a Mac-like feel. It feels like a badly made later OS 8 app. Which it is. It's been the same UI for years! Non OS X standard controls. It really needs an overhaul.. BADLY.