[tups_]

Hi all I'm thinking of getting an original iMac 96mb ram 233 mhz processor and 6Gig HD.

it's just for my daughter to have in her room for internet access so she isn't hogging the main computer all night while she chats to her mates.

My question is will this old but charming iMac run oz X 10. whatever? I yse AOL and I beleve it only works ith the latest mac oz X and not 9.2 which is currently installed.

I know your thinking what a tight wad but it's just for email and it's my way of getting a mac back in the house. My daughter likes the originals and my wife wont allow any thing more expensive. She says we've got enough P.C.s in the house, I say it's not a pc it's a Mac but she's not buying it.

So what do you think???

[discotronic]

That would be a great machine for what you are looking to do. That machine will run OS 9 fairly well. You can still use AOL version 5 IIRC. If all she is doing is surfing the net it should be a good system to go with. Also, I wouldn't recommend paying very much for it. Those old system have come to the end of their usefulness in terms of running the latest OS and programs. It will run up to 10.3 Panther but you need at least 128MB of RAM. I highly recommend going to the max at 512MB if at all possible.

[P]

The max on that machine is 256 MB. If you are going to run OS X on it, you absolutely need to max out the memory. The HD is also on the small side, but should work. Try very hard to see if you can't make it work for what you need with 9.2 - going to 10 will likely be very slow, even with 256 MB, and absolutely impossible with anything less.

And oh yes, you shouldn't spend hardly any money on it, not when you can get a Mac mini which is many times faster at $500.

[tups_]

Thanks for that guys. The idea is all part of my secret plot to get a mac in the house. Then if I can convert my daughter to the beauty and simpilsity of the iMac the two of us should convince my unbeleaving other half of the need for a proper second computer ... but not just any computer. A mac mini. Mabe I could even hook it up to the iMac wouldn't that be cool and breath new life into a disign clasic!!!

[Randman]

One idea that might get your wife over to a better system (for you as well). Tiger offers parental controls on chat (you get email notification if she is contacted by someone outside her approved list and you can accept or decline the invite) and in Safari, you can activate parental controls on where she can surf to. Unobtrusive but effective. There's also the fact that OSX is a little easier to use for schoolwork and with her friends' computer.
Sell a few pcs and get an eMac, iMac or mini.

[P]

Originally Posted by tups_

Thanks for that guys. The idea is all part of my secret plot to get a mac in the house. Then if I can convert my daughter to the beauty and simpilsity of the iMac the two of us should convince my unbeleaving other half of the need for a proper second computer ... but not just any computer. A mac mini. Mabe I could even hook it up to the iMac wouldn't that be cool and breath new life into a disign clasic!!!

Hook it up how? A motherboard switch? Would be really cool, and tell us if you do it because I'd love to se it, but I don't think it's trivial. You can connect the mouse and keyboard from the iMac to the Mac mini, but not (easily, anyway) the monitor.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by tups_

Hi all I'm thinking of getting an original iMac 96mb ram 233 mhz processor and 6Gig HD.

it's just for my daughter to have in her room for internet access so she isn't hogging the main computer all night while she chats to her mates.

My question is will this old but charming iMac run oz X 10. whatever? I yse AOL and I beleve it only works ith the latest mac oz X and not 9.2 which is currently installed.

I know your thinking what a tight wad but it's just for email and it's my way of getting a mac back in the house. My daughter likes the originals and my wife wont allow any thing more expensive. She says we've got enough P.C.s in the house, I say it's not a pc it's a Mac but she's not buying it.

So what do you think???

Tups,

I wouldn't recommend it. I'm currently borrowing a friend's old original iMac with 128 MB of RAM running OS 9.2.2 (my iMac died a few days ago). While this iMac is fine for using Office 2001 and writing email, it really sucks badly for surfing the 'net. None of the available browsers are being updated anymore. IE is painfully slow. Mozilla is available, but very buggy. Flash works like crap, but unfortunately, many websites use Flash. Netscape is slow and ugly. iCab is slow, has memory leaks, and improperly renders pages. And OS 9 crashes when a browser or any app crashes. You'll turn your family off of Macs if you let them use OS 9. I'm serious. Don't bother.

Don't bother with an original iMac. If you can find an iMac 350 or 400, get one of those with as much RAM as you can afford and with OS X 10.3.9 installed on it.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by P

The max on that machine is 256 MB. If you are going to run OS X on it, you absolutely need to max out the memory.

No, the max is 512MB -- it has two slots that can each accept modules as large as 256MB.

That said, an original iMac really is awfully slow under Mac OS X. It'll be a lot happier running Mac OS 9 with no less than 256MB of RAM.

tooki

[ApplCmptrDood]

I'd suggest just getting a mac mini and using one of the displays from one the the PC's you don't use as much - cheap + fast + Mac OS X

[Eriamjh]

I agree with Tooki. I iMac 233 is a dog with OSX Panther. Even with a 7200 RPM HD and 512MB ram. A dog I say!

[Dave B]

I have to disagree with the nay-sayers. I have a Revision A iMac running 10.3.9, 384 MB RAM,
a 7500 RPM hard drive (replacing the 4 GB, 4500 RPM drive) and a MCE 24X CD-RW.
Recently I helped a friend set up a Revision D 333Mhz iMac. I added a 256 MB stick for a total
of 288 MB, wrote zeros to the 6 GB drive, and custom-installed 10.3, deselecting printer drivers
and language files -- saving 1.1 GB. Also, I didn't bother installing Classic, which saved another 700 MB or so.
I found this machine to be more than adequate for web-surfing, e-mail, ect.
I would even describe it as snappy. For her purposes, this machine runs fine.
She even installed Photoshop Elements 3 and it works fine for simple stuff.
She is absolutely thrilled with this machine.

In my neck of the woods, (SF Bay Area) the original iMac can be had any day of the week for less
than $100. In fact, I just bought a Summer 2001 Tangerine iMac DV 400 Mhz (firewire) for $120.
My plan is to replace the slow 6 GB drive with a 7200 RPM, 120 GB drive (which gives a big improvement, BTW)
add a 256MB to the existing 64MB stick, install Panther, and call it a day.
I will probably try running Tiger on it to see if the improvement is anything like
going from 10.2 to 10.3 -- which was utterly astonishing. What does that mean?
How about boot times on the Bondi going from 2:05 to :56?
Near-instant finder response for System Profiler, which used to take nearly 10 seconds. (ect, ect)

Never under-estimate the old iMacs! One day these machines shall rise up and take over the world...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tups_

Thanks for that guys. The idea is all part of my secret plot to get a mac in the house. Then if I can convert my daughter to the beauty and simpilsity of the iMac the two of us should convince my unbeleaving other half of the need for a proper second computer ... but not just any computer. A mac mini. Mabe I could even hook it up to the iMac wouldn't that be cool and breath new life into a disign clasic!!!

I think your secret plot is going to backfire. With an original iMac you've got two possible options, with two non-favorable results:

1. You could run OS 9. Your daughter will be pissed off because she won't be able to run just about any software that's out currently, and she'll be stuck with old versions of stuff. She'll have to use a crappy old web browser like Netscape 4, Mozilla, IE, or iCab, she won't be able to use any decent IM programs (a big problem if your daughter is a teenager), it'll be crashing all the time, and the overall feel will be clunky compared to her friends' PCs. And you know how it is with kids. Peer pressure is king, and if your daughter perceives that her friends' computers are better than hers, she'll be pestering you every day for a PC.

2. You could run OS X. You'd need to max out the RAM before it would even run, and even then you'd only have 256 or 384 MB (link for tooki) which, combined with a 233 MHz G3 processor, will be dog slow. Plus, OS X needs a bigger hard drive than 6 GB to run effectively, especially with all the paging you're going to have with only 256 MB, so your daughter will be getting lots of those "disk full" warnings also. Your daughter's friends will come over and say "God, your computer is slow. Macs are slow. Macs suck." and the peer pressure will cause her to pester you every day for a PC. Add to this the 15" CRT monitor which can only do 800x600, which is not really that usable in OS X, and the fact that you can't even run 10.4 on it, which means you'll still have the problem of not being able to run the latest versions of some apps.

If you want to convert people, you need to make a good first impression. To do that, you need a proper Mac. By proper, I mean something which has at least a G4 and at least 512 MB of RAM. A decent hard drive helps also. Since the Mac mini is so cheap, I'd recommend getting that (and upgrading the RAM to 512 MB).

[Dave B]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

2. You could run OS X. You'd need to max out the RAM before it would even run, and even then you'd only have 256 or 384 MB (link for tooki) which, combined with a 233 MHz G3 processor, will be dog slow. Plus, OS X needs a bigger hard drive than 6 GB to run effectively, especially with all the paging you're going to have with only 256 MB, so your daughter will be getting lots of those "disk full" warnings also.

With all due respect, you're wrong about the RAM. I installed and ran Panther with 128MB
on a 233 Mhz iMac as well as a ATI Graphics 1 Ghz dual-boot eMac.
In fact, the iBook and this eMac--and possibly others--came with 128MB installed running 10.2.
A friend is running 10.3.9 on Rev B iMac with 192MB on the original 6 GB drive.
He has plenty of room for most if not all page-outs with 3 GB free. (he did custom install)
His machine is indeed slow, but it runs. The motherboard can utilize 128 GB of HD space,
and a substantial speed increase can be had with a 7500 RPM drive. (which will speed things up greatly during any page-outs)
I strongly recommend upgrading to a faster hard drive--more for the speed increase than the larger capacity.
I see 120 GB drives on sale all the time for $50.00. (usually after rebate--I've gotten 3 from Seagate)

As far as the RAM goes, there are 2 slots. The top slot takes the regular 16-chip 2" sticks, and the lower
slot must use the low-profile 1 1/4" SODIMM. However, you must use 16-chip RAM where
each chip is 128-bit. the 8-chip, 256-bit sicks won't work, because the motherboard will
only recognize 8 of the 16 chips--or half the amount of RAM on that stick. (Been there, done that)
You can in fact put a low-profile 16-chip 256 MB SODIMM in the lower slot, with 256 stick
in the upper slot, for a total of 512 MB. Mine runs well enough with 384 MB, so I didn't bother.
I maintain that a 233Mhz with 384 MB runs quite well--certainly for simple things like
web-browsing and e-mail under 10.3. Also, a Rev D 333Mhz iMac with its original slow 6 GB
drive with 2.5 GB free--and a mere 288 MB of RAM--runs surprisingly well under 10.3.9.

With these trusty old machines, a whole lot of fun can be had for a very minimal investment.

Long live the old iMacs!!!

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I think a lot of the speed/responsiveness problems
can be attributed to disk fragmentation. I make it a habit of erasing the drives by writing zeros
to them (using Disk Utility--which also maps-out any bad sector blocks) and gives you
a pristine, trouble-free starting point. In fact, the friend with the slow Rev B iMac with 192 MB
RAM is running on a drive which hasn't been formatted in a very long time --if ever.
It would be interesting indeed to see what a DiskWarrior™ graph would show.
My guess is that it would be fragmented all to hell...

[jnrjr79]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

If you want to convert people, you need to make a good first impression. To do that, you need a proper Mac. By proper, I mean something which has at least a G4 and at least 512 MB of RAM. A decent hard drive helps also. Since the Mac mini is so cheap, I'd recommend getting that (and upgrading the RAM to 512 MB).

Meh. I don't think a G4 is necessary. I still use my G3 700 iBook all the time and until recently was using a G3 500 iMac. Both of those are more than adequate for web/chat/office. Heck, i even got good video performance in iChat AV using that iChatUSBcam program. Sure, other uses would be quite slow, but if it's really just needed for a limited purpose, a G3 processor is fine.

That said, with the Mac mini available nowadays (and cheap refurb eMacs sometimes), picking up old Macs, unless incredibly cheap, looks much less appealing than it used to.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

2. You could run OS X. You'd need to max out the RAM before it would even run, and even then you'd only have 256 or 384 MB (link for tooki) ...

The link is wrong, too. It is based on Apple's public specs for the rev B iMacs (the rev A was published as having a maximum RAM of 160MB, which was based on then-current RAM availability, not the memory controller). Modern modules allow up to 512MB to go into it, same as in the Wallstreet and Lombard PowerBooks, which share the same architecture.

Note that Crucial has acknowledged that the memory controller does support 512MB, and since their modules are "short" modules that fit in the lower slot, they correctly list two 256MB modules are the maximum configuration in an original iMac.

tooki

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Dave B

With all due respect, you're wrong about the RAM. I installed and ran Panther with 128MB
on a 233 Mhz iMac as well as a ATI Graphics 1 Ghz dual-boot eMac.
In fact, the iBook and this eMac--and possibly others--came with 128MB installed running 10.2.
A friend is running 10.3.9 on Rev B iMac with 192MB on the original 6 GB drive.
He has plenty of room for most if not all page-outs with 3 GB free. (he did custom install)
His machine is indeed slow, but it runs. The motherboard can utilize 128 GB of HD space,
and a substantial speed increase can be had with a 7500 RPM drive. (which will speed things up greatly during any page-outs)
I strongly recommend upgrading to a faster hard drive--more for the speed increase than the larger capacity.
I see 120 GB drives on sale all the time for $50.00. (usually after rebate--I've gotten 3 from Seagate)

Yeah, it'll run with 128 MB... but the original iMac only came with 32 MB. It definitely will not run OS X without getting a memory upgrade. And upgrading to 128 MB would be kind of pointless...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tooki

The link is wrong, too. It is based on Apple's public specs for the rev B iMacs (the rev A was published as having a maximum RAM of 160MB, which was based on then-current RAM availability, not the memory controller). Modern modules allow up to 512MB to go into it, same as in the Wallstreet and Lombard PowerBooks, which share the same architecture.

Note that Crucial has acknowledged that the memory controller does support 512MB, and since their modules are "short" modules that fit in the lower slot, they correctly list two 256MB modules are the maximum configuration in an original iMac.

tooki

Are you sure you're not referring to the rev. B iMacs? All the info I can find on the Net points to the rev. A having a maximum of 256 MB (384 MB with higher-density DIMMs). Well, except for Crucial, which you mentioned - they claim the max was 128 MB. Checked Mactracker just to get another source - they claim that the rev. A had a max of 384, the rev. B had a max of 512, and that Apple's docs say 128 MB. But Apple's docs claim it's 256 MB. Argh, what a mess...

[discotronic]

I have an iBook 300MHz with 320MB RAM and a 30GB 4200RPM hard drive running 10.3.9. It isn't much more powerful than the original iMac. We use it for nothing more than surfing the net, writing papers and even a little iTunes. It works perfect for those type uses. It isn't something that a person would want to try video editing on but for light work it does just fine.

We have a G5 for everyday use and when switching between the two there is definitely a difference. If someone is used to a G5 or even a P4 they will notice a difference. If they are not that big into computers they would probably think it is fast enough. When it comes down to it speed is all about perception.

My advice is to find a good cheap 7200RPM hard drive and put 512MB RAM or at least 256MB in it. (That all depends on how much can actually be put into it). It will run just fine for Internet use and chat programs.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Are you sure you're not referring to the rev. B iMacs? All the info I can find on the Net points to the rev. A having a maximum of 256 MB (384 MB with higher-density DIMMs). Well, except for Crucial, which you mentioned - they claim the max was 128 MB. Checked Mactracker just to get another source - they claim that the rev. A had a max of 384, the rev. B had a max of 512, and that Apple's docs say 128 MB. But Apple's docs claim it's 256 MB. Argh, what a mess...

Nothing changed between the Rev A and Rev B's memory requirements or limitations, regardless of what Apple and the sites say. Note that Crucial's second option lists ALL tray-load G3 iMacs, 233-266-333MHz.

Seriously, I've worked with this hardware enough to be able to say authoritatively that the maximum is 512MB. I've done it before for people, so I have first-hand experience with this.

tooki

P.S. Remember that Apple's official specs are just the "supported" configuration. The developer notes sometimes provide evidence of other possible configurations, but sometimes, the reality of the hardware is simply undocumented. Apple does that a lot. Just because Apple doesn't explicitly say it will work does NOT mean it won't.

[tooki]

(Remember that the only appreciable difference between rev A and B iMacs is the amount of VRAM -- no substantial changes to the logic board were made, only minor bug fixes.)

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I think your secret plot is going to backfire. With an original iMac you've got two possible options, with two non-favorable results:

1. You could run OS 9. Your daughter will be pissed off because she won't be able to run just about any software that's out currently, and she'll be stuck with old versions of stuff. She'll have to use a crappy old web browser like Netscape 4, Mozilla, IE, or iCab, she won't be able to use any decent IM programs (a big problem if your daughter is a teenager), it'll be crashing all the time, and the overall feel will be clunky compared to her friends' PCs. And you know how it is with kids. Peer pressure is king, and if your daughter perceives that her friends' computers are better than hers, she'll be pestering you every day for a PC.

2. You could run OS X. You'd need to max out the RAM before it would even run, and even then you'd only have 256 or 384 MB (link for tooki) which, combined with a 233 MHz G3 processor, will be dog slow. Plus, OS X needs a bigger hard drive than 6 GB to run effectively, especially with all the paging you're going to have with only 256 MB, so your daughter will be getting lots of those "disk full" warnings also. Your daughter's friends will come over and say "God, your computer is slow. Macs are slow. Macs suck." and the peer pressure will cause her to pester you every day for a PC. Add to this the 15" CRT monitor which can only do 800x600, which is not really that usable in OS X, and the fact that you can't even run 10.4 on it, which means you'll still have the problem of not being able to run the latest versions of some apps.

If you want to convert people, you need to make a good first impression. To do that, you need a proper Mac. By proper, I mean something which has at least a G4 and at least 512 MB of RAM. A decent hard drive helps also. Since the Mac mini is so cheap, I'd recommend getting that (and upgrading the RAM to 512 MB).

Tooki is right about the 512 MB. There were several threads here about it in the past, but most of them disappeared from some forum switchover or something in '99 or 2000.
You're also wrong about the max resolution of the rev A being 800 X 600. With the 4MB VRAM upgrade, it does 1024 X 768 @ 75 Hz with Millions of Colors.

I agree with everything else though. A lot of people are nostalgic about the original iMacs because they owned them for so long. Someone that purchased one now on the used market wouldn't be so nostalgic if any number of problems happened right after purchase. Also, managing extensions and troubleshooting any problems can be a pain in the ass compared to X. Like you said, browser support blows. While the 233 is speedy on 8.6, most websites don't work well on the older software. The only things I use mine for anymore are extra storage space and MS Office 2001, because I refuse to buy a whole new version for OS X when this one runs just fine for me.

[Superchicken]

If you're trying to convert your daughter then get her a Mac mini. Giving a kid OS 9 to play with or OS X on a slow machine is more likely to turn her into a Mac hater than anything else.

[JoshuaZ]

For the money you may as well buy a Mini for her. After upgrades and whatnot on the original iMac its still a dog these days. Chicken is right, the Mini is a great option for her. Plus she can use it for a lot longer time. Such as college, if thats not far down the road.

[ValVashon]

I disagree with most of the previous posters. I just upgraded a friend's Bondi to 10.2.8 (Jaguar) from 9.0.4. Added 2 memory chips for a total of 512 for about $80 (she already had a 40 gb, properly partitioned hard drive. The machine turned out to be anything but "dog slow". Of course it is not as snappy as the newer machines; they have processors running in the Ghz range, this has only 233 mHz!

That said, you should have seen her face light up when meeting her desktop (with the Jag fur, natch) with the dock on the bottom and only 3 icons (the drives) on the desktop. She's thrilled with all the available browsers (6), iChat, iTunes, Office X. She was disappointed that her Palm V wouldn't sync, but other than that she loves it. Plus, it's got a handle! Like a purse!

So take this opportunity to teach your daughter the value of things that work, are vintage and unique. You'll probably never be able to buy a blue computer ever again. Upgrade the ram, install a real hard drive and install OS-X (Jag works well for me).

The Bondi's are great machines- our main computer is one (with an upgrade card) and I'm putting one together for work.

[andi*pandi]

thinking of upgrading my dad's old bondi this weekend, will try panther and see. It's got 384 MB memory I think... but I don't think I have it in me to install them a new hard drive this weekend, so 6G will have to do. He's been having lots of problem with his printer, slowness... he could use a good zero out. And I never thought, but newer browsers could help his surfing slowness problem.

will post back.

[moonmonkey]

get a Mac mini, that iMac will put her off Macs for life.

[steve626]

I have an old PowerMac 7100/66 which has a G3 Newer card running at 266 MHz. It runs OS 9. It's sort of like an old Volkswagon bug -- kind of fun to drive around and cutely historical, but not all that comfortable. It can certainly be used for email, but with web browsing, one sort of needs to use Netscape because the other browsers are not as capable or are buggy (actually, all the OS 9 browsers are buggy). AIM works ok but seems very slow compared with a modern computer. (Oh, this 7100 is "maxed out" at 136 Meg RAM, which seemed like a lot back in 1994, but isn't much to speak of now.

The 2nd computer is a 2001 iMac G3 500 MHz running OS 10.2.8 with 1 Gig RAM. This computer is very servicable for all those things the original poster mentioned (web browsing, email, chatting). All the modern browsers work. A used iMac G3 500 MHz costs only a few hundred dollars.

But, we gave in to my daughter a few months ago and got her an iMac G5 2 GHz (1.5 Gig RAM) -- this was to keep her from fighting with my wife over who gets to use the little G3 iMac (I have to use my laptop from work). This new iMac computer is one of the most elegant machines I have ever seen and is simply amazing to use it's so fast.

I would agree with the posters above who suggest a new Mac Mini, but if you can come up with the money for a new iMac G5, it's a stunning computer. The newer computers seem much nimbler and quick. Now we have peace in the house -- daughter on her iMac G5, wife on MY old G3 iMac (I can't get near either of those now, it's hopeless, I have to sneak around at night to do backups, repair permissions, basic maintenance like that, when everyone else is asleep), and me stuck on my work laptop.

[gumby5647]

Originally Posted by tooki

(Remember that the only appreciable difference between rev A and B iMacs is the amount of VRAM -- no substantial changes to the logic board were made, only minor bug fixes.)

slight correction:

There were two differences:

1: The amount of VRAM went from 2MB to 6MB

2: The actual video chipset went from an ATi Rage IIc to an ATi Rage Pro (Turbo)

[gumby5647]

In response to the actual question.

I have to disagree. The bare minimum machine you really want to run OS X on is a 350MHz iMac. They are getting dirt cheap on ebay. SOOOOOOO many advantages over the old First generation iMacs.

I'd highly suggest a 350MHz Blueberry or Indigo iMac with perferably 512MB RAM.

(be careful though, there were a couple different 350MHz models, some had airport capability, others did not. DO YOUR HOMEWORK if this is what you decide)

[tooki]

Originally Posted by gumby5647

slight correction:

There were two differences:

1: The amount of VRAM went from 2MB to 6MB

2: The actual video chipset went from an ATi Rage IIc to an ATi Rage Pro (Turbo)

I did mention the VRAM bump.

I just double-checked the Apple developer note. They say:

Rev A: 2MB Rage IIc
Rev B: 6MB Rage Pro
Rev C, D: 6MB Rage Pro Turbo

Ignore the tech note's section on maximum RAM. It wasn't even accurate when the machines were released, much less now. All tray-loaders support 2x256MB, and the slot-loaders support 2x512MB.

tooki

[andi*pandi]

Last weekend successfully wiped my folks old Rev B Bondi 266, and installed Panther. Runs great, 288MB ram. A little tight on disk space, but I told him to get an external drive. It didn't install classic (midnight, I might have unchecked a box I shouldn't have) but once he gets the external he can just install OS9 on it and be golden, yes?

After the upgrade his printer magically worked again, his external burner stopped being flaky. Panther = good. He is happy. He has iTunes now.

Half his problem with speed is related to his piss-poor dialup. Anyone in FL have good dialup?

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Last weekend successfully wiped my folks old Rev B Bondi 266, and installed Panther. Runs great, 288MB ram. A little tight on disk space, but I told him to get an external drive. It didn't install classic (midnight, I might have unchecked a box I shouldn't have) but once he gets the external he can just install OS9 on it and be golden, yes?

After the upgrade his printer magically worked again, his external burner stopped being flaky. Panther = good. He is happy. He has iTunes now.

Half his problem with speed is related to his piss-poor dialup. Anyone in FL have good dialup?

That iMac only has USB--no FireWire. If he did purchase an external drive, it's have to be USB which means no booting (IIRC) into OS9 and running it would be dog slow.

I'd suggest he buy a mini.