[crooner]

Need some help and advise folks...

Just recently got a new 2.7GHz G5 with an ATI 850 XT. I am experiencing some serious color and image distortion especially in any applications that utilize Core Image.

I first noticed some major color and hue shifts in editing pictures in iPhoto. I reinstalled and updated iPhoto and the bug remains. To dig deeper I opened Core Image Funhouse (Developer Tools - both 2.0 and the new 2.1 release) and any image opened for editing is completely screwy.

See example:



Any adjustments I try will only either change the hue and saturation to a different, opposite color - say, all bluish - or just turn the image black. Needless to say, any attempt at using the cool effects is useless.

My current display set-up is a 22" Apple Cinema Display flanked by two SGI 1600SW's.
The Apple Cinema Display is connected to the ADC port on the 850 XT.
One 1600SW is connected to the 850's DVI port via an SGI MultiLink adapter. Using the direct DVI to DVI cable for the MultiLink yielded a blank screen. Theorizing that because the 850's DVI port is a dual link (for supporting a 30" Apple Cinema Display) I used an Apple DVI to VGA adapter and used the MultiLink's VGA cable. This worked.

The other 1600SW is run off an ATI 9200 PCI card. The same issue occurred using the DVI cable in this case so I connected the MultiLink to the VGA port on that card.

I'm wondering if my complex setup is causing this image corruption or if my 850 XT is flaky.

Any ideas? Could really use some help here.

Thanks!

Edit: I have tried a clean install of the OS and the results are the same.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by crooner

I'm wondering if my complex setup is causing this image corruption or if my 850 XT is flaky.

Remove the 9200 PCI card and the extra SGI monitors. If the problem remains with only the Apple display and the AGP card then you'll know the problem is the 850XT.

Just for the record, if there is a conflict with your setup, I think it's much more likely that it's a conflict between the PCI video card and its drivers than the extra SGI monitors.

[crooner]

Okay... I unplugged one SGI from the 9200 and unplugged the other SGI from the DVI port on the 850 XT (both using MultiLink adapters). Booted up and ran Core Image FunHouse.
All worked perfectly. So far so good.
I reconnected the SGI to the DVI port on the 850 XT and rebooted.
Again, all Core Image functions worked as they should.
I reconnected the second SGI to the Radeon 9200, rebooted and the color shift issue returned.

I then played the "musical PCI slots game" trying every one, all to no avail. I then had a thought...

What if I disconnected the DVI to VGA cable from the MultiLink and the 9200, switched the MultiLink over to a digital signal and then used a DVI to DVI cable.

(Note: I had tried this before but got no signal, but thought twice regarding whether I had set the analog/digital switch properly. This is important as in earlier versions of Mac OS X, MultiLink adapters HAD to be run in analog mode.)

This time I got a video signal just fine and dandy. My confidence brimming, I tried Core Image FunHouse and...


Fsck!


No dice. Image corruption.


So I dialed up ATI support, explained my intricate setup and was greeted by a very astute and technical answer that shed incredible light on the situation:

"Well... you simply can't run two video cards in a computer."

"I beg your pardon, but I’ve been doing that with the last three Macs I've owned and never had a problem. In fact, I used THREE video cards in my 9600. Surely this must be a driver level issue that can be addressed?"

"No, sir. While you may have been able to successfully run two video cards in a computer, it is not supported and shouldn't work."

That was the extent of the help I got. Nice, right? The fact that Core Image functioned properly with the 9200 INSTALLED but not connected leads me to believe that this IS, in fact, a driver issue.

What do you guys think?

Would it be worth my while trying an 800 XT? Until I hear your ideas, I'll exchange the 9200 at Fry's for another in the hopes that a second might work. I doubt this will, but any excuse to go to Fry's is a good one.

I must say I'm disappointed but not surprised by ATI tech support's total lack of a clue. I just wish some other vendor made a PCI graphics card that would work in a G5. Is there one I’m unaware of?

If the second 9200 doesn't work, I'll drag my G5 down to the Apple store and hook up three new Apple Cinema Displays to see if the MultiLink adapter is the culprit.

In the meantime, please chime in with your ideas. This one is a puzzler to be sure.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Todd Madson]

What the heck are they talking about? I've run up to nine video cards in my old computer...

What I would do...is call back and ask another technician if it is possible to run
multiple video cards in one computer and see what happens. See if it can't be
escalated to second or third level support.

[Al G]

Well you're not the first person to have conflicts from multiple video cards, that's why I suggested the possibility. If your main card was nVidia and your PCI card ATI I could almost guarantee a problem. But I thought maybe with both cards being ATI it would work.

I would definitely talk to ATI again. Maybe someone else there will be more helpful. On the other hand, with all the new stuff involved like a brand spankin' new X850XT not to mention Tiger, maybe the driver complexity has just gotten away from them.

And if, as you say, it turns out to be a driver-level issue, what can you do about it? You're pretty much at the mercy of ATI and Apple.

[a2daj]

crooner, your system should work. The ATI tech support guys are probably just thinking about the PC side of things.

Just to be clear, does the image corrupt occur on all displays when the 9200 is used or just the display on the 9200? Assuming your screenshot is off your X850 ADC display, then it looks like it occurs on all displays. Does the problem also occur when you have only two displays connected on two different cards (one X850, one 9200)? What about booted with the 9200 by itself?

I know that the 9200 requires a separate code path for CoreImage support (CPU based) while the X850 can do it with the GPU. Maybe there's something funky going on with that.


Edited because I can't read...

[crooner]

Originally Posted by a2daj

Al, your system should work. The ATI tech support guys are probably just thinking about the PC side of things.

a2daj,
It’s crooner, not Al. And, yes, methinks the ATI guys are misinformed and lame.

Just to be clear, does the image corrupt occur on all displays when the 9200 is used or just the display on the 9200?

Corruption on all displays and only when there is a display connected to the 9200. The 9200 CAN be installed without a connected display and allow Core Image functions to work properly.

Assuming your screenshot is off your X850 ADC display, then it looks like it occurs on all displays.

Exactly.

Does the problem also occur when you have only two displays connected on two different cards (one X850, one 9200)?

Haven't tried that yet, but my feeling is that it will. What I am going to test tonight is one SGI connected to the 850 XT and my 22" ADC Apple Cinema Display connected to the 9200 via an ADC to DVI connector. The purpose of this will be to eliminate the MultiLink adapter from the 9200 chain to see if that is the root of the problem.

What about booted with the 9200 by itself?

Haven't tried that but will if necessary.

I know that the 9200 requires a separate code path for CoreImage support (CPU based) while the X850 can do it with the GPU. Maybe there's something funky going on with that.

Very possible. After trying the Apple Cinema Display on the 9200, I'll have a clearer idea. I'll be sure to post my results.

And thanks, everyone for sticking with this thread.

[a2daj]

D'oh, my apologies! That darn Al had too many posts I was reading. Stupid tabbed browsing...

[Al G]

Darn me!

[crooner]

Okay, Gang... buckle yourselves in as we enter the realm of the bizarro.

I disconnected SGI/MultLink #2 from the 9200 and, using an ADC to DVI adapter, connected my 22" ADC Apple Cinema Display to the 9200. This left SGI/MultLink #1 connected to the 850 XT.

Booted up, launched Core Image FunHouse and violá! It worked! This lead me to one conclusion: MultiLink adapter #2 is screwy. To test this, I reconnected everything the way it originally was:

22" Apple Cinema Display connected to the ADC port on the 850 XT.
SGI 1600SW #1 connected to the 850's DVI port via SGI MultiLink adapter #1.
SGI 1600SW #2 connected to the 9200 via SGI MultiLink adapter #2.

Booted up. Core Image distortion again.

Getting creative, I left everything as it was except I swapped MultiLink adapters 1 and 2. Just to be clear (as this is getting confusing) we now have:

SGI 1600SW #1 (850 XT) using MultiLink adapter #2
and
SGI 1600SW #2 (9200) using MultiLink adapter #1.

Booted up and launched Core Image FunHouse. Oddly, its Open dialogue box opened on SGI 1600SW #2 (9200) using MultiLink adapter #1. Opening the Flowers image displayed it on SGI 1600SW #2 (9200) using MultiLink adapter #1.
Lo and behold... NO IMAGE DISTORTION! Moving the image to my center display (Apple Cinema Display) still kept the image distortion free and allowed full use of the cool filters. I DID notice that things seemed a bit slower in terms of moving the window around, however. Odd.
I closed the image and moved the little Filters palette to the Apple Cinema Display and quit Core Image FunHouse. Upon launching it again, the Open dialogue was now on the Apple Cinema Display. Opening the Flowers image brought BACK the distortion. What was the variable? MultiLink #2! To test this, I closed the Flowers image, moved the Filters palette back to SGI 1600SW #2 (9200) using MultiLink adapter #1, quit and relaunched. The Open dialogue once again appeared on SGI 1600SW #2 (9200) using MultiLink adapter #1 and opening the Flowers image once again yielded NO DISTORTION.

Therefore, the culprit is MultiLink #2 and it affects whatever graphics card it is attached to. How fing weird is that?

And I just bought this one to be able to use a third display with my G5!

So my next step is to return it (luckily it came with a 90 warranty) and hope the vendor has another in stock. If not, I'll return it and try eBay. There's a couple on there now I think.

What does this all mean? For one, from all the stretching, straining, craning and twisting of my neck, head and shoulders, I’m in ridiculous pain and must see my chiropractor today.

Two, it sheds some further light on ATI tech support's lack of creativity, knowledge and they're total apathy towards helping solve an issue that goes beyond downloading the latest drivers.

Three, not all MultiLink are created equal, and four... uh... umm... I forget what four was.

In any case, I hope getting a new MultiLink will solve this nonsense and no more insanity pops up.

Pretty wild, huh?

[Todd Madson]

I would imagine the vast majority of the ATI support calls have to do with very basic stuff,
optimization for games, color calibration - simple stuff.

I doubt the majority of their customers are using three monitors, much less two of them
being Silicon Graphics. Sheesh.

How much screen area is that then? How big are the SGI 1600s?