[Eug Wanker]

Or at least more than usual are lemons...

The iMac G5 Repair Extension Program for Video and Power Issues applies to first generation iMac G5 computers that have video or power-related issues as a result of a specific component failure. If your iMac G5 is exhibiting any of the symptoms listed below and your computer's serial number is within the noted ranges, your computer may be eligible for repair, free of charge. If Apple or an Authorized Apple Service Provider (AASP) determines that your iMac G5 computer is eligible as part of the program, the repair will be covered by Apple even if your iMac G5 is out of warranty. This is a worldwide Apple program.

Affected systems will exhibit one of the following video- or power-related symptoms :

Scrambled or distorted video
No video
No power

[budster101]

Yeah, Apple just sucks like they said in the other thread. They are doing the right thing! as usual.

It's still one of the best computer companies if not THE best in the marketplace. Bar none.

[bicamen]

My God! Do you ever pull your head out of Steve Job's ass?

[Randman]

Is anyone surprised? Rev A models always tend to be the buggiest, especially when it involves a change as the iMac went through from G4 to G5.

Now, I'd be interested to hear about Rev B models. See if the problems were resolved.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Randman

Is anyone surprised? Rev A models always tend to be the buggiest, especially when it involves a change as the iMac went through from G4 to G5.

It makes me less inclined to buy the first version of an Intel Mac. Apple has NEVER made x86 Macs, which makes it even a bigger jump.

Pet peeve: Why does everyone call them Rev. A? If they are the first model, then they aren't a revision.

Now, I'd be interested to hear about Rev B models. See if the problems were resolved.

I sure hope the problems were resolved in Ver. B, considering I own a 20" 2.0.

[budster101]

< *First 17" Powerbook here. One of them My logic board went out. I had my computer back in 4 days. My head isn't up Steve Job's ass, it's squarely on my shoulders and I'm thinking quite clearly unlike some of you reactionaries.

*Version A.

Otherwise, I have never had a problem with the company's customer service wich I believe is #1 in the industry. So stop slinging the fud... 2 post wonder.

[Randman]

What else would you call them?

[buggsuperstar]

I think Rev A is a convenient reference.

While technically a "Revision A" would be the first revision (not the first model), I think there's no need to be overly pedantic about it.

[Ikiimi]

Feel free to call me retarded, but does "scrambled video" and "no video" basically mean the screen messes up? My G5 iMac is totally stuffed, the LCD erupts in a display of pyrotechnics every time you try to switch it on, or it gets to the login stage and then explodes in a mass of squares and moving lines. I'm not at home to check if the serial number falls in their batch.

So I'm not 100% as to whether this is the sort of problem that Apple have acknowledged as being this one eligible for the free repairs.

Does "video" basically mean what the display shows?

[WOPR]

Well my revision B was useless too so it's not just a revision A thing. Any mention of the capacitor problem specifically?

[pete]

Did they just add the two year condition, or did the original poster copy it and forget to put that in? In any case, Apple now says that it will cover this problem for two years from the date of purchase...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by WOPR

Well my revision B was useless too so it's not just a revision A thing. Any mention of the capacitor problem specifically?

I'm not sure if this is just about bad caps, but they're not specific about it. My 20" 2.0 GHz iMac's caps are OK... for now...

Originally Posted by pete

Did they just add the two year condition, or did the original poster copy it and forget to put that in? In any case, Apple now says that it will cover this problem for two years from the date of purchase...

I didn't quote the whole page.

[ghporter]

There is no human way to test every combination of components, manufacturing tolerance, user conditions, user stress, user environment, user options, software installs, etc. involed in any complex device. The more complex (and thus the more feature-rich and technically advanced) the product is, the more likely it is that some problem will crop up after it goes into production. This is called "manufacturing reality."

Aside from the inconvenience involved in not having your computer for a while, as long as Apple makes good, then what is the problem? It's not like they're saying "You made the computer fail" or "You'll just have to live with it." One of the foundations of customer loyalty to Apple has always been that they take care of customers. They're doing that right now.

What was the point of calling them "lemons" when Apple is actively working to fix them?

[Big Mac]

I say this was way past due. If I were an owner of an affected iMac I would have been totally disgusted by this lengthy denial. Apple knew about this problem long ago but would admit to nothing. Perhaps that's the only way the company can deal with such issues, but I imagine a lot of loyal customers have been turned off over the years by the stonewalling.

[Eriamjh]

Any Mac with video problems will be fixed by Apple... as long as it is under warranty.
The ones out of warranty better hope they have serial numbers in those ranges.

Everyone else better buy AppleCare or some other type of extended warranty. I think this cap problem is only going to become more widespread as the machines age.

This isn't a "heat" issue. This is a defective component problem. Most of the iMacs are used in normal environments, not 100 heat or factories.

[chizle97]

thats why i saw about 10 of them lined up in the local apple store. Plus i had to deal with about 5 moms tapping thier feet holding g5 imacs waiting in line at the genius desk behind me. (plus they were doing that thing were they try to talk just loud enough so other people can hear them but low enough as not to sound conspicus.) again

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ghporter

What was the point of calling them "lemons" when Apple is actively working to fix them?

Well, if they weren't lemons, they wouldn't need to be fixed.

Judging by the bazillion posts about iMac problems, and the fact that Apple now has a program specifically to address problem, confirms that this is widespread.

It's good to see Apple owning up to it though and addressing it. The response this time is much quicker than when it happened to the iBooks, IIRC.

[pliny]

"Lemon" is a bit of stretch since Apple is fixing affected machines (not each machine btw) but that kind of thing has never stopped him before. Usually he just posts news items like this and posts stuff like "hooray!" or just agrees with whatever sentiment arises in a thread.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by budster101

So stop slinging the fud... 2 post wonder.

Yeah how does he know where your head is he just got here

[Maflynn]

I try to avoid a Rev a. of anything.

Its not an Apple thing but a general humans are fallible thing.

With the move to Mactel, I'm definitly waiting a revision, this is such a major shift for apple, there's no way I want to be on the bleeding edge.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally Posted by pliny

Huge wanker is one of these guys who posts the same junk to forum after forum because he has nothing better to do. He uses an inflammatory thread name so that people will come and talk to him. "Lemon" is a bit of stretch since Apple is fixing affected machines (not each machine btw) but that kind of thing has never stopped him before. Usually he just posts news items like this and posts stuff like "hooray!" or just agrees with whatever sentiment arises in a thread.

Oh rubbish. You and I both know that Apple acknowledging and fixing these doesn't change the fact that they're lemons. A lemon is:

an artifact (especially an automobile) that is defective or unsatisfactory [princeton.edu]

Besides, some people don't have any other way to hear about these kind of issues. I work in an Apple Certified Service Center, so I receive AppleCare Service newsletters when there are issues like this, but not everyone is as cool as me.

[budster101]

Edit <-- Works wonders.

---

[pliny]

Originally Posted by [APi]TheMan

but not everyone is as cool as me.

No way??

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by pliny

Huge wanker is one of these guys who posts the same junk to forum after forum because he has nothing better to do. He uses an inflammatory thread name so that people will come and talk to him. "Lemon" is a bit of stretch since Apple is fixing affected machines (not each machine btw) but that kind of thing has never stopped him before. Usually he just posts news items like this and posts stuff like "hooray!" or just agrees with whatever sentiment arises in a thread.

Somebody finally said it...

[Eug Wanker]

I'll note that I have version A of the SuperDrive PowerBook, and it has always worked great. It worked even better when I firmware'd the DVD-R burning from 1X to 2X.

However, that's a different kettle of fish. Basically, it was a mature TiBook platform, with a new slot-load optical drive.

Sometimes I think this version A business is just superstition, especially since the version A iBooks were quite OK repair-wise actually, IIRC, and it was multiple versions of the iceBooks that had the same problem.

Still, it does make me apprehensive to buy one of the first Intel 'Books. (I have an iBook 1.33 now, but was hoping to replace it when the Yonah-based PowerBooks and iBooks are released.)

Originally Posted by [APi]TheMan

Oh rubbish. You and I both know that Apple acknowledging and fixing these doesn't change the fact that they're lemons.

Yup. I know first hand how frustrating something like this can be, considering I owned an iBook 600. I called Apple about it many times and they refused to do anything about it despite the fact it seemed to be a widespread problem and it began shortly after the warranty was up. They did finally do something about it as we all know though eventually.

---

OK, I didn't see his posts before, because he's on my ignore list. But...

posts stuff like "hooray!" or just agrees with whatever sentiment arises in a thread.

I don't get it.

[pliny]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

OK, I didn't see his posts before, because he's on my ignore list.

Please put me back on it. Thank you.

edit:

[italiano]

I love my 20" Imac REVISION A - if it breaks I'll have it repaired and still love it. It's whisper quiet - doesn't overheat and I wanted it and bought it with an extended warranty - I have other Macs but feel this one is a great computer.

[jasonsRX7]

I'm glad they're doing this. I got someone to switch and buy a 20" iMac G5 around christmas last year. It had problems powering on since it first came out of the box. She took it to the Apple store twice and it came back no better, and they blamed it on faulty wiring in her house. She had an electrician come out and check the wiring and of course there was no problem. It quit powering on entirely over 2 months ago, but she'd gotten so tired of dealing with Apple support that she just started using her old PC again. The whole thing made me look bad for giving Apple such high praises, and has made her first Mac experience likely to be her last.

Maybe the extended warranty will change her mind. I hope they make good on it, she plunked down around $2400 on the system and peripherals.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by italiano

I love my 20" Imac REVISION A - if it breaks I'll have it repaired and still love it. It's whisper quiet - doesn't overheat and I wanted it and bought it with an extended warranty - I have other Macs but feel this one is a great computer.

I like my version B as well. Great design and noise is low. (It's not as silent as my Cube obviously, but it's only a mild whirr I can hear sometimes.)

I made a point of buying AppleCare though. The guy who swapped out my 20" iMac's LCD (replaced because of too many stuck pixels) told me I should do so too. He based this on the fact he saw an unusually large number of version A iMacs come in for repair. The version B Macs hopefully won't suffer the same problem in as large numbers (because of a change in the design or correction of the capacitor supply), but I will be sure to check out my caps in 6 months.

BTW, does anyone know if these problems are pretty much only due to the caps, or due to other things as well?

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

I'm glad they're doing this. I got someone to switch and buy a 20" iMac G5 around christmas last year. It had problems powering on since it first came out of the box. She took it to the Apple store twice and it came back no better, and they blamed it on faulty wiring in her house. She had an electrician come out and check the wiring and of course there was no problem. It quit powering on entirely over 2 months ago, but she'd gotten so tired of dealing with Apple support that she just started using her old PC again. The whole thing made me look bad for giving Apple such high praises, and has made her first Mac experience likely to be her last.

Maybe the extended warranty will change her mind. I hope they make good on it, she plunked down around $2400 on the system and peripherals.

Some of the Apple support people truly are nasty and/or idiots. OTOH, I've talked to many that are extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw, but I find that keeping a cool head about it while still being firm does help.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by bicamen

My God! Do you ever pull your head out of Steve Job's ass?

Your first post ever here ? And then insulting a longtime member ? How petty!
You might wanna piss off !

-t

[budster101]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Yeah how does he know where your head is he just got here

I just got that.... ha-ha-ha-ahem...

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Well, if they weren't lemons, they wouldn't need to be fixed.

I've always considered a product a lemon if it's defective and the manufacturer didn't establish a recall or other program to make it right. For example, a lemon car is one that you have to beat the dealer over the head with until they finally admit it's faulty, whereas it's NOT a lemon if (or once) the manufacturer establishes a recall to fix that problem. The Pinto was a lemon of epic proportions (and not just because of its Molotov gas tank), as was GM's version, the Vega, for similar reasons. The Ford Expedition was a lemon for years because its suspension and tire combination made it roll better than some bowling balls, and Ford did NOTHING about it until a huge lawsuit forced them to. However, the Honda Odessy is NOT a lemon (in general) because the several issues that have cropped up in it have been aggressively handled by Honda without a national scandal.

Syntax is my thing, and I get pedantic about it sometimes. I do not disagree that this model of iMac is defective from the outset-as was, for example, the Graphite AirPort Base Station-I simply disagree in what seems to be the accepted definition of a "lemon." And from my looking around, it looks like it has taken about as long for Apple to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it as it did for the Graphite ABS... Now I can see not doing a major recall until you know what's causing a problem and what you're going to do about it, but keeping hush-hush about it is a public relations problem-and a BIG one.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I've always considered a product a lemon if it's defective and the manufacturer didn't establish a recall or other program to make it right. For example, a lemon car is one that you have to beat the dealer over the head with until they finally admit it's faulty, whereas it's NOT a lemon if (or once) the manufacturer establishes a recall to fix that problem.

[snip]

Syntax is my thing, and I get pedantic about it sometimes. I do not disagree that this model of iMac is defective from the outset-as was, for example, the Graphite AirPort Base Station-I simply disagree in what seems to be the accepted definition of a "lemon." And from my looking around, it looks like it has taken about as long for Apple to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it as it did for the Graphite ABS... Now I can see not doing a major recall until you know what's causing a problem and what you're going to do about it, but keeping hush-hush about it is a public relations problem-and a BIG one.

OK, it's just semantics then. Our definitions of "lemon" differ.

P.S. Not knowing about its lemonness, I bought the Graphite Airport Base Station off eBhey as a small gift for someone, thinking it would be easier for her to configure. Luckily, it's been going strong for the 8 months, and it was already years old when I got it. At least if it goes kaput, I can just buy some non-Apple base station, cuz when it comes right down to it, the Airport isn't really that much easier to configure than other non-Apple base stations. Plus Airports cost too much. A defective iMac or iBook is a much bigger deal.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

A defective iMac or iBook is a much bigger deal.

I agree 100%!

[polendo]

Different people might see a lemon in different ways. What I think is important is how does Apple solves the problem in:

1. Promptiness in reacting to the problem
2. Knowledge of fixing what is broken
3. Craftmanship of the repair
4. Deciding which product gets to be repaired

I think Apple does fine in the first three. On the 4th they suck. If beforehand they know that some computers "could or might" be/get broken from serial no. x to y.. they should repair/replace them ALL within that range. Why screw the customer and wait if they got it broken and then fix it. They did the same thing with the G3 iBooks.

regards

[cleanup]

Eeeeek, my iMac's serial number is in one of those "ranges," and it's a Rev. B. I've only had it about a month and a half. No problems so far.

Bad thing: I'm moving soon, to Shanghai, where Mac users aren't very plentiful, and Apple doesn't do much business there. They sell plenty of iPods, but not many Macs. I hear it's difficult to get service in China, unless you pay big moneys for it. I hear a place called ServiceOne is a good place to get Mac service in Shanghai, but still...

I mean, come on, I thought these sorts of problems were fixed in rev. B iMacs... that's why I bought one. Otherwise I would've bought an iBook or Powerbook.

[Butch Hauke]

Originally Posted by cleanup

Eeeeek, my iMac's serial number is in one of those "ranges," and it's a Rev. B.

Just checked my Rev B, and it also falls under the program (but no issues with mine yet). Hooray! I just got a partial extended warranty for free. I just can't complain too much: I've had a ton of Macs over the last twenty years and can count the problems I've had on one hand (and a few of those were PowerBook 5300 related—anyone remember that?).

Butch

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by cleanup

Eeeeek, my iMac's serial number is in one of those "ranges," and it's a Rev. B. I've only had it about a month and a half. No problems so far.

Bad thing: I'm moving soon, to Shanghai, where Mac users aren't very plentiful, and Apple doesn't do much business there. They sell plenty of iPods, but not many Macs. I hear it's difficult to get service in China, unless you pay big moneys for it. I hear a place called ServiceOne is a good place to get Mac service in Shanghai, but still...

I mean, come on, I thought these sorts of problems were fixed in rev. B iMacs... that's why I bought one. Otherwise I would've bought an iBook or Powerbook.

If you've only had it for less than two months, isn't it under warranty?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by cleanup

Eeeeek, my iMac's serial number is in one of those "ranges," and it's a Rev. B. I've only had it about a month and a half. No problems so far.

Crap, you're right. Mine falls in the serial number range too.

I just assumed the version Bs weren't included since they just came out, but you know what happens when you assume... I guess it makes sense though, since one of the guys who posts here in the iMac forum said he had a version B with bad caps.

Oh well, at least I have the full 3-year AppleCare... I'd hate to have my machine go belly up 25 months after purchase without AppleCare.

I guess the title should be: "Apple confirms iMac G5s are lemons"

Originally Posted by ghporter

If you've only had it for less than two months, isn't it under warranty?

Yeah, but it's never nice knowing your baby is part of a group with a high defect rate.

[alimunnik]

A lemon is, well; a lemon. Any device that breaks down spontaneously is a lemon. The hard drive on my new RevB iMac 20'' crashed without just cause. I have lost data. It's been in repair for 3 weeks because Apple is out of stock of replacement hard drives.
Eventually my iMac will come home. Maybe it will run trouble free for years. But I am not counting on it.What caused my hard drive to crash? I would say it is due to the lemon inside.

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by ghporter

If you've only had it for less than two months, isn't it under warranty?

Yes, but Apple service in China is terrible. Official Apple service usually involves pooh-pooh-ing the issue and saying "It's your fault. You need to buy a new one."

Maybe the Worldwide Service Program will make them fix it. But then I should expect a very, very, very long wait time, especially since I would be in China.

[PeterKG]

I too have a Rev. B 20" iMac, that falls in the serial number range, W8521xxxxxx (W8435xxxxxx - W8522xxxxxx) . This one is replacement for my Rev. A that blew two K capacitors. The new one seems fine, except it does have a mixture of both K and Y capacitors.

[volcano]

I wonder why they don't mention that you can find the serial number of your computer in the system profiler - it's a nuisance to flip the iMac over just to write it down and compare numbers.

EDIT: My Rev. B iMac isn't on that list, but not by much. 522 ends the QP list, and mine starts out with 524.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by cleanup

Yes, but Apple service in China is terrible. Official Apple service usually involves pooh-pooh-ing the issue and saying "It's your fault. You need to buy a new one."

Maybe the Worldwide Service Program will make them fix it. But then I should expect a very, very, very long wait time, especially since I would be in China.

I'm not sure where you are right now, but if you're not in China YET wouldn't getting the computer fixed NOW just cause a slight delay when they ship it back to you? Or is getting something like that into China a problem?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'm not sure where you are right now, but if you're not in China YET wouldn't getting the computer fixed NOW just cause a slight delay when they ship it back to you? Or is getting something like that into China a problem?

Well, if it ain't broke, they ain't gonna fix it.

However, it might pay to remove the back to check for bulging caps. (I did that when I installed memory, and my caps were fine.)

[Randman]

Be careful about taxes when moving to China.

I'm in Singapore right now and lots of people sell their equipment rather than deal with shipping and any electronics taxes entering the PRC. Then they buy from Apple HK (uness you're in Shanghai or Beijing and can find an Apple retailer worth a damn).

[WOPR]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Crap, you're right. Mine falls in the serial number range too.

I just assumed the version Bs weren't included since they just came out, but you know what happens when you assume... I guess it makes sense though, since one of the guys who posts here in the iMac forum said he had a version B with bad caps.

Oh well, at least I have the full 3-year AppleCare... I'd hate to have my machine go belly up 25 months after purchase without AppleCare.

I guess the title should be: "Apple confirms iMac G5s are lemons"

Yeah, but it's never nice knowing your baby is part of a group with a high defect rate.

It was me who had the rev B with bulging caps. It went straight back for a refund.

[striker100]

Check this out, 4 days ago I purchase a new 17" 1.8 GHz iMac at CompUSA after using a friends and really liking it. The one I brought home had a halo spot on the display so I brought it back to the store, they checked it out and replaced it. I bring the second one home and had a little difficulty getting OS X to go through the setup process, a couple of times it hung at specific pages of the initial setup and wouldn't continue. Not wanting to have to return yet another one instead of trying once or twice and returning it I tried 4 times and finally it went through the whole setup process. Since then it's been working perfectly without a problem. I start reading this thread and for the heck of it I decide to check my serial # even though I just got this iMac 4 days ago. So you guessed it, my serial # begins 521xxx which falls within the possibly defective machines. I have a copy of the receipt for the iMac that was returned for the spot on the display and that one did not fall under the effected serial #'s, it began 529xxx. So I bought this iMac in the middle of August when the Apple notice says it effects iMacs up to June, doesn't make me feel too good.
I doubt I can bring this one back to CompUSA, I mean it's working perfectly and they check it before accepting a return so I don't think I'd have a leg to stand on. I guess I just have to hope that nothing happens with this one though what I first went through setting it up makes me wonder...

[Eug Wanker]

I'm still confused:

At least some of the current 2.0 GHz iMacs fall into the serial number range, but Apple says: "The program is available for certain iMac G5 models that were sold between approximately September 2004 and June 2005 featuring 17- and 20-inch displays with 1.6GHz and 1.8GHz G5 processors. "

There is no mention in the program description of 2.0 GHz iMacs being affected.

Originally Posted by striker100

Check this out, 4 days ago I purchase a new 17" 1.8 GHz iMac at CompUSA after using a friends and really liking it. The one I brought home had a halo spot on the display so I brought it back to the store, they checked it out and replaced it. I bring the second one home and had a little difficulty getting OS X to go through the setup process, a couple of times it hung at specific pages of the initial setup and wouldn't continue. Not wanting to have to return yet another one instead of trying once or twice and returning it I tried 4 times and finally it went through the whole setup process. Since then it's been working perfectly without a problem. I start reading this thread and for the heck of it I decide to check my serial # even though I just got this iMac 4 days ago. So you guessed it, my serial # begins 521xxx which falls within the possibly defective machines. I have a copy of the receipt for the iMac that was returned for the spot on the display and that one did not fall under the effected serial #'s, it began 529xxx. So I bought this iMac in the middle of August when the Apple notice says it effects iMacs up to June, doesn't make me feel too good.
I doubt I can bring this one back to CompUSA, I mean it's working perfectly and they check it before accepting a return so I don't think I'd have a leg to stand on. I guess I just have to hope that nothing happens with this one though what I first went through setting it up makes me wonder...

It can't hurt to check the caps...





We still don't know if the caps are the primary thing at fault here yet though. If so, then it's mainly just bad luck for Apple. Bad caps have affected many motherboard manufacturers and are claimed to be a consequence of bad corporate espionage. Seriously.

Anyways, here are what some of my capacitors look like:



They have a "K" shape and a "Y" shape. Most of the pix I've come across showing bulging bad caps have had the "X" shape.

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by budster101

China blows.

That was an uneducated and unnecessary comment. Thank you. You haven't visited China, have you?

Originally Posted by Randman

Be careful about taxes when moving to China.

I'm in Singapore right now and lots of people sell their equipment rather than deal with shipping and any electronics taxes entering the PRC. Then they buy from Apple HK (uness you're in Shanghai or Beijing and can find an Apple retailer worth a damn).

I never thought about that... damn. I was just too eager to get my iMac. It's true, since there are no taxes on products in China, the prices are relatively the same.

But, all my stuff is on the iMac, and I can't really sell it now. I guess I'll just have to pay the duties.

Is there a webpage somewhere with more information on this? My parents are saying that we won't have to pay tax, and I can't find anything about it on the web, only about importing stuff into China, like mass amounts of products.