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jebjeb · Nov 18, 2005, 06:13 PM

Hoping to upgrade my machine as I am expecting an insurance cheque from my damage PowerBook. Looking to sell my iMac G5 and replace with a PM and probably a 24" Dell display.

Two choices.

1 - New Dual Core 2.0 machine standard but with a 7800 video card - £1670

or

2 - Near new Dual Proc 2.5 same standard as above, still with 1 year warranty (inc £280 to buy a new Mac ATI X800 XT card) - £1680

Add 2GB of Crucial RAM to either as well.

So same price, basically same warranty but with PCIe on the DC 2.0 side but quite a bit more speed on the DP 2.5 side.

I am leaning towards the DP 2.5 (as long as I can verify that it is clean and legit - luckily the machine is not far away so I can see it in person).

Opinions? Does it sound like a fair price for the DP 2.5?

iDaver · Nov 18, 2005, 10:51 PM

Personally I'm afraid of those liquid cooled Macs. Except for that, the 2.5 sounds like a better deal and will surely be a little faster. As long as you don't expect a need for PCI Express, the 2.5 might be the way to go. Seems like a tough call.

jebjeb · Nov 19, 2005, 02:04 AM

Yeah it is a bit of a tough call. The 2.5 is faster for sure, but I wasn't sure what the final consensus was around here on the liquid cooled 2.5's.

I can't think of a particular need for PCI Express for me at the moment and if I installed a X800 XT into the 2.5, the video would be pretty damn quick.

I guess it all depends on when I get the insurance cheque!

harrisjamieh · Nov 19, 2005, 06:56 AM

I guess it depends what you are planning on using it for. But saying that, I would go with the 2.5ghz, as in theory it should be quite a bit faster, with both faster processing 2.0 vs 2.5, and a faster bus 1.0 ghz vs 1.25 ghz. Though this doesnt sound a huge amount, take into account that a powerbook has a bus of just 167mhz, and they can be pretty speedy at times, so an extra 250 mhz should make quite a bit of difference. You are also getting a better video card with the 2.5 if you add in the card you say you are going to.

booboo · Nov 19, 2005, 08:46 AM

The DC runs cooler, and uses less power, as well as being quieter.

Also my DC2.0 is the first PowerMac G5 I've seen or owned that doesn't have the annoying 'chirping' power suppy issue.

Only you know if you might make use of PCIe in the future, but I'd bet that as of now Mac PCI-X development is pretty much dead.

jamil5454 · Nov 19, 2005, 10:19 AM

It seems the consensus is that the new Dual-Core PowerMacs don't exhibit the extremely annoying chirping issue, so just for that alone I'd go for the newer PowerMac.

Plus the 7800GT is a new, blazingly fast card (24 pixel pipelines I believe), and PCIe isn't being phased out anytime soon. This way you'll be able to upgrade the video card again in a few years to something even more monstrous.

And come on, two G5 processors at 2.0ghz isn't exactly slow. Give me features over speed any day.

SpaceMonkey · Nov 19, 2005, 10:56 AM

Another vote for the DC 2.0ghz.

mduell · Nov 19, 2005, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

I guess it depends what you are planning on using it for. But saying that, I would go with the 2.5ghz, as in theory it should be quite a bit faster, with both faster processing 2.0 vs 2.5, and a faster bus 1.0 ghz vs 1.25 ghz. Though this doesnt sound a huge amount, take into account that a powerbook has a bus of just 167mhz, and they can be pretty speedy at times, so an extra 250 mhz should make quite a bit of difference. You are also getting a better video card with the 2.5 if you add in the card you say you are going to.

The difference in FSB is meaningless. The dualcore PowerMacs share a FSB for both of the cores, yet the performance difference from a dual proc at the same clockrate is nil.

For the OP: While the paper performance of the 2.5 is tempting, I'd recommend the 2.0. Better features, better future expansion prospects (I doubt you'll ever see a faster Mac-compatible AGP card), and less annoyance (chirping power supply, etc).

jebjeb · Nov 19, 2005, 07:04 PM

All comments sound pretty fair. Today I have been leaning towards the new machine. Less worries involved and as already stated, both machines are still bloody quick.

Will wait until I get the funds in and will go from there.

One issue I have do have with my iMac is noise. It is not particularly noisy in the grand scheme of things but it is that variable noise right in front of me at desk level that really gets to my wife and me. The room we have the Mac in is very quiet so it is very noticeable. Just getting the machine on the floor would make a big difference.

Will let you guys know how I go. Thanks!

awcopus · Nov 20, 2005, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by jebjeb

All comments sound pretty fair. Today I have been leaning towards the new machine. Less worries involved and as already stated, both machines are still bloody quick.

Will wait until I get the funds in and will go from there.

One issue I have do have with my iMac is noise. It is not particularly noisy in the grand scheme of things but it is that variable noise right in front of me at desk level that really gets to my wife and me. The room we have the Mac in is very quiet so it is very noticeable. Just getting the machine on the floor would make a big difference.

Will let you guys know how I go. Thanks!

As a dual 2.5 owner in his 13th month with his machine who has never heard his Mac "chirp" and is running a ripsnorting ATI X800 card, I think it's nuts to go with the dual core 2 if speed is your priority. Can't you pick up the near-new 2.5 for just a little bit more than the dual core 2? If it were me, a machine that's running approximately at the fastest speed that the G5 debuted at over 2 years ago... even with the PCIExpress slots (unless you are really planning to exploit that architecture)... would feel anticlimactic.

But whatever you do, I'm sure you'll be thrilled. Good luck!

mduell · Nov 20, 2005, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by awcopus

As a dual 2.5 owner in his 13th month with his machine who has never heard his Mac "chirp"

Here's a video of a dual 2.7 displaying the nap "chirp".

svtcontour · Nov 20, 2005, 05:13 PM

OMG my centrino laptop does this exact same thing as well and it drives me freaking insane. On the centrino however, its not due to the PSU, but actual noise from the chipset. Disabling some form of power management seems to make it silent.

Anyway that noise would make me crazy if it was on my desktop machine. Thankfully I do not have that

Todd Madson · Nov 21, 2005, 04:53 PM

Speaking as a DP2.5 owner, the 2.5 is the way to go.

Mine has run flawlessly since I bought it in June and it is sometimes so
quiet I have to check to make sure it is on.

But it's your life, get what you think will help you out.

Speed = 2.5
New ram & video card standard 2.0

TiDual · Nov 22, 2005, 04:44 AM

My lab has 2 dual 2.5s (never heard the chirp, either), among a range of other older and newer Macs. The machines are used as workstations, but also for compute intensive tasks (training neural networks), which keep one of the CPUs 100% occupied for weeks on end. While we've been very happy with these machines (they outperform our state of the art XEON server with 4 CPUs), one did recently die: went "pop", smell of smoke, and yes, coolant leakage. Still under warranty, thankfully. While I would still recommend the 2.5s (we need the speed), for personal use, the new DCs might be the sensible option.

jebjeb · Nov 22, 2005, 08:25 AM

I don't have any need for further expansion beyond a decent graphics card so I am thinking the PCI Express, while the new standard, may not deliver me a whole lot more than AGP with a kick ass (X800 XT) graphics card. So, PCI Express is not a big advantage for me.

To give you an idea what I do with the machine, I a keen photographer who is shoots about 5 or so weddings a year on a professional basis. My wife and I are getting very keen again to shooting more photos and what to shoot plenty of London while we still are here and have the time. We also do quite a few of the books through iPhoto as well as slideshows, movies and DVD's. I am extremely keen about Aperture so want to get a machine that will do it, and myself, justice.

One thing I am after is quietness. My iMac G5 annoys my wife and I mainly because what fan noise there is, it is right in front of you when you sit in front of the machine. Getting a PowerMac and putting it on the floor will help here. The issue is that my office is extremely quite so I can hear any noise well. I know I am not going to see (or rather hear

) a completely silent machine but the quieter the better. I just saw these figures on Bare Feats.

---------
NOISE LEVEL
The Quad-Core G5/2.5 ran 44 decibels (measured 6 inches from the rear fans) no matter what we ran. The Single-Core Dual G5/2.5 ran 48 decibels when "resting" and jumped up over 60 decibels when we did anything that was CPU intensive.
---------

I don't think I can stretch to a Quad 2.5 but the difference in noise there is significant. Is the DP 2.7 any quieter than the DP 2.5?

The older machines are quite attractive to me as I can get one of those, as well as a great graphics card now rather than the couple of months wait for a new machine with the 7800 GT.

TiDual · Nov 22, 2005, 08:42 AM

The 2.5s and the 2.7 (what I currently have under my desk) are both a bit noisy ... the iMac (rev.A 20") is similar, I find, and yes annoying, since it's right in your face then. New iMac's are supposed to be better. No experience with the DCs yet (though 2 quad's are on their way :-) )

The original dual 2GHz was actually the quietest G5 I've used.

jamil5454 · Nov 22, 2005, 08:55 AM

I keep my Rev. C DP 2.0 on the floor beneath my desk and I never hear it.

Except for the damn chirping, which I've fixed by running seti@home at all times.

Todd Madson · Nov 22, 2005, 11:35 AM

I had been using my G4/400 for close to six years with three 80 gig drives,
Radeon 8500 drive and was prepared for a big increase in noise when I got
my DP 2.5.

To my great surprise, it was immensely quieter.

I've said before that I came back from work the first Monday after I got the
machine and asked my wife if she shut the computer off because I couldn't
hear it. Of course she hadn't touched it, I just wasn't used to how quiet the
thing was.

My machine occasionally will ramp the fans up (two instances of Seti @ Home
running 24/7) mostly it just sits there doing what its supposed to and doesn't
call attention to itself in any way except the gorgeous case design.

The only chirp I've heard occurs in one particular instance:
Running games (XPlane and Doom3) with all video options turned on with the
video card overclocked and nap mode enabled. I'm running a Radeon 9600 XT.

Frankly I get more performance from NAP being disabled so I disable it most
of the time anyway.

I never hear any chirp style sounds running "regular" applications.

booboo · Nov 22, 2005, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

I never hear any chirp style sounds running "regular" applications.

Todd, I can accept that you've never heard the G5's chirp, but that doesn't mean it isn't a widespread issue. You got lucky.

Of the 4 G5's I've owned or work with:

G5 Rev A 1.8 DP - bad
G5 Rev B 1.8 DP - a little better
G5 Rev C 2.0 DP - really bad
G5 2.0 DC - non-existent

Apple's acknowledgement of the issue.

One other thing about my 2.0 DC, I've set performance to Maximum, and run a lot of cpu-intensive app's and have yet to hear the fans rev up at all - something that happened quite commonly on my previous G5's.

Todd Madson · Nov 22, 2005, 03:09 PM

Remember too that my machine was a display model for a computer store
before I got a hold of it. I've heard it when running heavy graphics (games)
when the card overclocked but not while doing "standard stuff" (i.e. non
game apps).

I don't think we'll be seeing a fix for the issue without a lot of squawking ala
the users of the 1.8 machines who finally got their crashing issues

I also run my processors at maximum but we shall see what the future bears
out for the DC and non DC G5s.

Originally Posted by booboo

Todd, I can accept that you've never heard the G5's chirp, but that doesn't mean it isn't a widespread issue. You got lucky.

Of the 4 G5's I've owned or work with:

G5 Rev A 1.8 DP - bad
G5 Rev B 1.8 DP - a little better
G5 Rev C 2.0 DP - really bad
G5 2.0 DC - non-existent

Apple's acknowledgement of the issue.

One other thing about my 2.0 DC, I've set performance to Maximum, and run a lot of cpu-intensive app's and have yet to hear the fans rev up at all - something that happened quite commonly on my previous G5's.