[ATIisPain]

I have had the excrutiating experience of trying to upgrade a video card in an older model G4. I was sold the ATI PC & Mac Edition Radeon 9600 Pro for a 4x AGP Quicksilver G4.
Here's the specs on the computer...

Machine Model: Power Mac G4
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 867 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB
Memory: 1.25 GB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.2.5f1

PCI/AGP CARDS:
GeForce2 MX:
Type: display
Bus: AGP
Display Type: CRT
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 32 MB
Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0110
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 1055


I was assured by the retailer that this card would work and (hey!) if you check out the System Requirements on the side of ATI's box - it *SAYS*... Power Mac G4 & G5... so I cant lay too much blame on the retailer.

When I replace my old, tired NVidia 32 Mb (how embarassing) card with this one, I get a blinking "checkerboard" screen. I've reset the motherboard, made sure to follow the very shoddy documentation that came in the box and done everything I can think of. To repeat - when I reboot the computer, the machine will start up, but all I get on the monitor (CRT attached to the adapter on the card) is a black screen with a white checkerboard.

This is driving me crazy. Not one single Mac retailer in Greater Vancouver has been able to sell me (we don't have anything in stock) - or even talk knowledgeably - about what video cards they can sell me to go into this 4 year old G4 Quicksilver machine. Finally I find one and now this.

I *suspect* its a power issue, but I don't know for sure.
The system reqiuirements on the box say "G4".
I have one.
What's the problem?

I'd really appreciate help with this as I don't typically go out and drop $400 on a video card so I can watch blinking on my screen.
Really would appreciate help...

P.O'd in Vancouver

[Kenneth]

a bad card? I read about that from xlr8yourmac.com.

$400 for the Radeon 9600 Pro Mac + PC edition?

[ATIisPain]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

a bad card? I read about that from xlr8yourmac.com.

$400 for the Radeon 9600 Pro Mac + PC edition?

yeah... funny what you can charge a Canadian ... seriously though, in Vancouver there a grand total of about 3 mac stores. *ALL* 3 (and I called all 3) either didn't have cards in stock or simply said "should be okay". After 2 weeks of getting nowhere I simply bit the bullet and paid $349 + tax. Got home, put the card in and "BLING"... white checkboard on lovely black background.

I've had more grief over putting a video card into a mac then I ever had putting "you name it" into a Wintel box. Absolutely brutal (meaning "no") awareness on the part of retailers and in one case, just pure "attitude/ignorance". Think "Simply Computing" in that case.

Not really sure what it says about Apple dealers. Though to be fair to the friendly fellows who sold me this card, it *DOES* say Power Mac G4 and G5 right on the bloody box!

In any case all this headache would be forgiven in an instant if *anyone* anywhere could tell me *why* this card won't work. Or better yet, what I can do to make it so...

Thanks for your two, I'll check that out....

[new newton]

Exchange it. You got a bad card. It happens.

No offense, but you seem to have gone through way too much grief with is. It's just not that hard to find, order, and install a video card in that system. It's downright simple.

[ATIisPain]

You would think it would be simple wouldn't you?
I know I did.

But here in Vancouver, the 3 "main" Apple dealerships apparently make a habit of not carrying cards at all. Yes, that's right. Your suggestion of exchanging it sounds cruelly comical when, in a city of 2 million people, Mac users have to appeal to "ordering" a card from another country through a "dealer". It's not like I just walk in and get handed another - oh no. They have to be "ordered".
Again, to be fair, the last store I went to (Mac Station) the folks were friendly enough and as helpful as they could be with 10 minutes to closing. Perhaps I should have been more wary when this card (the *ONLY* one they had in stock) came up with some oddity about its "availability". Like uhhh... maybe it was on its way back to ATI?
As it stands, I have a "ticket" going with ATI and if all goes well, I might be able to get another card sometime in the future - when an Apple dealer in Vancouver orders some more. $400 for that?

While I'm here griping, I might as well add that the documentation that comes with this card is pathetic. The book is for installing a 9800 in a G5, which okay, may not be all that bad - but the illustrations of AGP and PCI cards don't resemble the card! The clasp to hold the card (grabbed by the green clip on the connector) is non-existent on this card - but there it is in the illustration of the AGP card! And attention ATI - there is *NO* "Users Guide" - as stated in the Getting Started Guide. Maybe double check your product documentation before you rush it out the door looking for rubes like me?

This whole experience of getting the runaround from Apple dealers and now a card that doesn't work as advertised (or wait - AT ALL!) has genuinely soured me on Macs in the future. The whole idea was to tart up this G4 as well as I could before Macs (as we know them) go the way of the Dodo (Intel is coming... Intel is coming...) As I've said, I've put stuff in other machines and been able to find helpful, knowledgeable, dealers for PC's - who sell products at *REASONABLE* prices in a snap. That's not what happened on the "Think Different" side here in Vancouver. Bankers hours (11 am - 6 pm) and mark ups that make you blush is more like it.

On a final note, your suggestion that it's a "bad" card and that "it happens" might be true. But based on the stuff hitting the fan over at accelr8yourmac, I'd say its more a case of ATI turning out something that wasn't quite ready for market - at least the Mac market in any case ...

[Chito]

Get your money back and look at OWC. It might cost you more to ship it but this ATI 9600 is $89 usd. Check here http://eshop.macsales.com/Item_Speci...=APL630ATI96G4.
Good luck

[Kristoff]

Yeah, I ordered a 256 MB 9800 pro mac special edition for $249 USD - $50 mail in rebate from OWC.

While the card being a dud is NOT your fault, being a bad shopper is your fault.

Take the card back and tell them it did not work in your computer.
Do not buy hardware from brick and mortar stores unless you don't like your money and are looking to give it away.

[ATIisPain]

I might accept "being a bad shopper" if I didn't ask questions or look into it. I did. I asked questions of salespeople, checked out net forums and I wanted a card in this box this week. So yeah, if somebody who takes the time to ask salespeople their opinions and tries to extract what they know about customer experience with what they sell... see, these aren't Best Buys and Future Shops where I wouldn't expect much in the way of know how... and where people go to get product pushed at them. These are local Vancouver shops that have been around for years (like 20) and not *ONE* of them was informed enough to know about this issue, provide personal insight or to even say, recommend a web site where I could go and get feedback on cards they sell.

Eveery single place basically blew me off the minute I started talking to them about cards I could put in an older Quicksilver machine. They just didn't give a ****, didn't know ****, copped serious attitude/pissing contest (hello Simply Computing) and essentially weren't prepared to give me the time of day.

When you're faced with a wall of ignorance, you do the best you can.

[shek66]

You need to download the drivers from the ATI website. The built-in driver in Mac OS X does not work with the 9600 correctly. You get artifacts etc. Download the ATI Display drivers and install them -- all your video problems will go away.

Link: [https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...mp;folderID=27

[Kristoff]

that's not true.

I am using a 9600 and have never installed ANY software from ATI.

[ATIisPain]

No offense, but my assumptions - based on other cards I've installed, are that the drivers would be included with the CD. I can't understand how this might be different. I'll grant that updating the drivers is, of course a useful idea, but if the ones included on the CD don't do the job...

I hear what you're saying though.
Finally - and I do mean FINALLY... I returned the card to Mac Station, they gave me another and - VOILA! - it works. It started up exactly the same way (checkerboard startup), then kicked into gear about 30 seconds later, came up fine and *seems* to be ticketty boo on a "testing purposes" reboot.
So kudos to newton, who suggested that it was a bad card.

I'm still miffed at the general attitude of dealers in Vancouver though - but
thumbs up to Mac Station who dealt with it ...

Thanks for your help here people... (at least hearing me out allowed me to say my peace)

[Todd Madson]

The one thing I might add is that the request you made was a bit odd:
putting a fairly new video card into what is known mostly as an older
machine. Not something that occurs every day and it is anyones guess
as to what might happen especially given that some newer cards have
to have pins taped to work in older machines.

Yes, it did sound like you had a bad card so it was good that you
were able to get a replacement though.

[new newton]

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

...especially given that some newer cards have
to have pins taped to work in older machines.

That's a completely separate issue, not at all relevant to a card that is designed with Apple's AGP implementations in mind. The card is designed for the system he put it in. There's nothing unusual about it at all.