[mrplow]

Being an MS beta tester, I have a copy of Vista 5270.. as I understand it, this OS fully supporst EFI. However, I don't fully understand EFI. Additionally, I've never bothered to boot a 3rd party OS (linux) on a PPC mac, much less the new intel mac. However, I'm planning a trip to the Apple Store tonight with my Vista disc in hand to see what happens when I try booting from CD. Before I go, I wanted to check if anyone on here had any ideas/suggestions/requests.. such as how to go about this procedure (I know that OS X sys prefs have the ability to choose a start up folder, but what about once I install Windows? I'm hoping that holding downt he Option command will quickly let me choose...) Also, I'm going to need to reform the drive for this to work (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm going to take my iPod with me and attempt to install to that instead (I don't want the employees to kill me if I render their iMac unbootable)

anyway, any comments would be greatly appreciated

I'll post results as soon as I have them... or someone else that has already tried perhaps interject here

[iMacfan]

OK - Good luck!

Remember that the iPod needs to be connected via FW to be bootable.

David.

[baw]

I'm betting it doesn't boot due to some sort of driver issues.

[jasong]

I don't think Windows can boot from a USB/Firewire drive. I'm almost certain XP can't, maybe they've added this to Vista?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by jasong

I don't think Windows can boot from a USB/Firewire drive. I'm almost certain XP can't, maybe they've added this to Vista?

Windows XP (and I think 2000) absolutely can boot from an external USB or FW (hard|thumb|optical) drive.

[wowok1234]

Holding down the C key at boot will hopefully boot you into the vista installer. Don't forget to take some pics!

[Reindeer Flotilla]

I've got an Intel iMac and a copy of build 5270 of Vista, and I haven't figured out a way to boot yet. None of the typical ways of dealing with selecting a boot volume work: holding down C or cmd-shift-option-delete, or selecting a startup disk in system preferences. In addition, holding down the Option key while booting up only brings up volumes formatted with Mac OS X.

[xDOUGHNUTx]

reindeer, try holding D when the Vista disc is in the drive while the computer is booting up and see if anything happens.

[ravenz]

Originally Posted by xDOUGHNUTx

reindeer, try holding D when the Vista disc is in the drive while the computer is booting up and see if anything happens.

Doesn't the D key force startup from the hard drive?

[ravenz]

Originally Posted by ravenz

Doesn't the D key force startup from the hard drive?

Aha!

(From the iMac manual..."D" key is used. I will try this today on some different OS installer CDs, although I don't have Vista with EFI support.)

Using Apple Hardware Test

You can use Apple Hardware Test to help determine if there is a problem with your
iMac computer’s hardware.

To use Apple Hardware Test:

1 Disconnect all external devices from your iMac except the keyboard and mouse.
If you have an Ethernet cable connected, disconnect it.

2 Insert the Mac OS X Install Disc 1 that came with your iMac.

3 Restart your iMac and hold down the “D” key as it starts up.

4 Select the language appropriate for your location when the Apple Hardware Test
language chooser screen appears.

5 Press the Return key or click the right arrow button.

6 When the Apple Hardware Test main screen appears (after about 45 seconds), follow
the onscreen instructions.

7 If Apple Hardware Test detects a problem, it displays an error code. Make a note of the
error code before pursuing support options. If Apple Hardware Test doesn’t detect a
hardware failure, the problem may be software-related.

For more information about Apple Hardware Test, see the Apple Hardware Test Read
Me file on the Mac OS X Install Disc 1.

[Will C]

Do you really think that Apple staff will be happy with you meddling with their display machines and trying to get one of them to run a competing OS?

[ravenz]

Originally Posted by ravenz

Aha!

(From the iMac manual..."D" key is used. I will try this today on some different OS installer CDs, although I don't have Vista with EFI support.)

"D" key failed for the following installers:

Ubuntu 5.04 Live CD
Ubuntu 5.04 Install CD
Windows XP 2002 Edition Install CD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install DVD
SUSE Linux 9.3 Professional Install CD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install DVD
Solaris 10 x86 03/05 Edition Install CD
ParitionMagic 8.0 Install CD

None of the installers above have EFI support, as far as I know.

Someone with a Vista beta CD will need to try this.

[jestera]

Not entirely sure about this being 100% genuine yet, btu have a look at:

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6933

sounds interesting.

[ravenz]

Originally Posted by jestera

Not entirely sure about this being 100% genuine yet, btu have a look at:

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6933

sounds interesting.

I love getting install instructions through a 3rd party. I can't replicate those steps, as written.

[arcticmac]

from developer technical q&a HW35 comes this tip:

COMMAND-OPTION-SHIFT-DELETE
Attempt to force boot from any device other than from the device specified by the configuration variable boot-device. That is, do not use the chosen device.

keep int mind though that that's in open firmware, not necessarily in EFI.

Probably not the best thing to try at the apple store though... just hope apple doesn't have a policy of banning people from the store or anything like that.

[baw]

Originally Posted by jestera

Not entirely sure about this being 100% genuine yet, btu have a look at:

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6933

sounds interesting.

Bad link for me.

[swatson]

Supermegatron posted this over at the osx86 project web site:

our computer guy at school has xp running on his new imac he said you need to mac a partition on your imac's drive clone over the freedos install cd then mac another then in osx select the folder that says unknown then it will start free dos from there you put the xp disk in the drive and go to the i386 directory and install it. When you reboot you will be in osx again then you select windows as your startup disk and it completes the install. He says you have to boot osx first then you can run windows after making it your start disc

I do not know the veracity of the information - I am hopeful, but I have my doubts. The info is a little cryptic, There are no screen shots, or other proof - just passing along for ideas.

[mrplow]

Well the worst case scenario is they need to reinstall the software- which they do everynight anyway, but of course.. the store closed before I was able to go. I'll try again today.... but as stated above someone already tried Vista on iMac, so perhaps it's not worth my time--- I'm not sure if they tried holding down D tho. can anyone say wehther or not they heard it attempt to read the disc(s) when holding down Opt/C/D ?

[kman42]

Originally Posted by mrplow

Well the worst case scenario is they need to reinstall the software- which they do everynight anyway, but of course.. the store closed before I was able to go. I'll try again today.... but as stated above someone already tried Vista on iMac, so perhaps it's not worth my time--- I'm not sure if they tried holding down D tho. can anyone say wehther or not they heard it attempt to read the disc(s) when holding down Opt/C/D ?

Really, they reinstall the software every night? Some kind of net install to make sure the computers have a standard store install or something?

I've noticed that the store iMacs don't have Front Row installed or remotes attached. Maybe they were being stolen?

Sorry to get off-topic.

kman

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by mrplow

but as stated above someone already tried Vista on iMac, so perhaps it's not worth my time---

the previous tester did not have a version of vista that supported efi

[mrplow]

Originally Posted by Reindeer Flotilla

I've got an Intel iMac and a copy of build 5270 of Vista, and I haven't figured out a way to boot yet. None of the typical ways of dealing with selecting a boot volume work: holding down C or cmd-shift-option-delete, or selecting a startup disk in system preferences. In addition, holding down the Option key while booting up only brings up volumes formatted with Mac OS X.

This guy has the EFI version, and it didn't work... but I don't know if he tried holding down D? Option should be sufficient though... did PPC macs show PPC Linux installers when holding down Option?

[mrplow]

Originally Posted by jestera

Not entirely sure about this being 100% genuine yet, btu have a look at:

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6933

sounds interesting.

any chance you can post a working link, or elaborate upon what that link was supposed to be?

I'm going crazy trying to figure out if Windows will run... just for the joy of solvling the puzzle and making it work..

also, completely off topic, but I hate amazon right now-- I ordered an iMac from there on the 11th and it's estimated to ship March 20!!!! Anyone know if this is accurate? If so I'm going to go buy one in person.. I saved $120 by getting it through amazon thoguh

[ravenz]

Originally Posted by mrplow

any chance you can post a working link, or elaborate upon what that link was supposed to be?

I'm going crazy trying to figure out if Windows will run... just for the joy of solvling the puzzle and making it work..

also, completely off topic, but I hate amazon right now-- I ordered an iMac from there on the 11th and it's estimated to ship March 20!!!! Anyone know if this is accurate? If so I'm going to go buy one in person.. I saved $120 by getting it through amazon thoguh

http://forum.osx86project.org/index....700&st=100

[mrplow]

"our computer guy at school has xp running on his new imac he said you need to mac a partition on your imac's drive clone over the freedos install cd then mac another then in osx select the folder that says unknown then it will start free dos from there you put the xp disk in the drive and go to the i386 directory and install it. When you reboot you will be in osx again then you select windows as your startup disk and it completes the install. He says you have to boot osx first then you can run windows after making it your start disc"

I'm going to pose a possible translation of this, someone else feel free to correct me:

I know someone with Windows XP installed on their intel core duo iMac.

In order to accomplish this, you must create an unformatted/DOS partition on your hard drive.
(There is most likely an app, like Norton Ghost, that can take a cd image of FreeDOS and clone it to a portion of yourhard drive. Thus creating of the exact format of FreeDOS. Format another section of the drive to be 10+GB for your Windows installation. Format the rest of the drive to be OS X.. or, of course, just have mutiple hard drives and skip this step-- just make sure to clone FreeDOS to one of them)

Now, in OS X's system preferences select the "Unknown" (FreeDOS partition) as the start-up device.

FreeDOS will run, at which point you'll have to navigate to the location of the installer.. presumably located in D: \i386\setup.exe

From here, the installer will run and do some preliminary work- then the machine will reboot into OS X.

Now, select the partition you were installing Windows to (not the cloned FreeDOS partition) and Windows Installer will boot.

-------------
I have no idea if this is right, I'm basing it off my knowledge from installing OS X on x86 a few months ago + my knowledge of windows. Feel free to disregard, but I think there maybe something to this... Also, if this works- then I believe that simply plugging in a firewire hard drive with Windows already installed to it should work, because all of these steps just lead up to getting Windows installed. Perhaps firewire won't work, but then putting the Windows Hard Drive (a bit of work) inside your imac should also do it...

[Reindeer Flotilla]

Like the goggles, the D key does nothing.

The iMac made some sounds like it was contemplating trying to boot from the Vista DVD, but then decided it wasn't worthwhile and booted me into Mac OS X.

[jerbare]

Originally Posted by Reindeer Flotilla

Like the goggles, the D key does nothing.

The iMac made some sounds like it was contemplating trying to boot from the Vista DVD, but then decided it wasn't worthwhile and booted me into Mac OS X.

i'm very curious about efi and macosx/windows booting... i have no experience with efi on its own (yet), but im very capable with normal dos/unix (like) terminal boot configuration on MBR/fdisk and open firmware boot configuration.

for starters, has anyone been able to boot into the efi shell? is it a boot manager or a terminal? what is the confirmed key-command to do so (command-option-o-f)? obtain any EFI version information? any success executing any commands (help, help <command>, info boot, info <command>, etc.)? familiar with unix (like) terminals?

[LeeG]

Originally Posted by Reindeer Flotilla

Like the goggles, the D key does nothing.

The iMac made some sounds like it was contemplating trying to boot from the Vista DVD, but then decided it wasn't worthwhile and booted me into Mac OS X.

Ahhh...the D key! It does nothing!



L

[mduell]

My latest Vista install (5720 before the CTP was released) has an EFI folder in the root directory.
But I'm afraid the intersection of the groups "Intel iMac owners" and "Vista beta members" is pretty small.

I'll check the Vista beta newsgroups later tonight to see if anyone has had success or failure on the Intel Macs.

edit: No mention of Intel Macs in the Vista beta newsgroups.

[ender78]

Looks like someone told a lot more than "a little white lie". Booting Windows at least in a dual boot scenario should be as easy as pie. I went over to a local Mac dealer's shop and tried to see if I could get Vista to install. We unfortunately had little progress. I took a copy of both Windows Media Center Edition [MCE] and Build 5270 of Windows Vista and none will boot. I found some instructions on the osx86project.org forums that suggested
using "bless"

http://forum.osx86project.org/index....56&amp;st=100#

I have followed those instructions , best I can with no luck. The copy of MCE that I found has no EFI or BOOT directories while Vista does. I played around with some of the paramaters for boot volumes and files and had no luck.

Booting with 'c' 'd' 'option' keys pressed does NOT work.

Shame on you Apple for saying that you will not stop anyone from running windows. If such as the case, I should have been able to nuke my OS X partition [should I have chosen to, I of course never would] and install Windows Vista.

I'm also surprised that as of yet, no one has gotten Windows to install on the iMac. I know a lot of people are still waiting for their machines but one would think that someone had gotten it to work already and such news would have gone around the web.

VPC is a future option. I do want the ability to run Windows XP/VISTA nativetly on the hardware with no emulation layer. VPC or emulation will suit the average user that has a Windows application that is not graphic or processor intensive but Windows power users will need dual boot.

[baw]

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...-coreduo.ars/7

Originally Posted by ender78

Shame on you Apple for saying that you will not stop anyone from running windows. If such as the case, I should have been able to nuke my OS X partition [should I have chosen to, I of course never would] and install Windows Vista.

Apple stated that they would not go out of their way to stop someone from installing windows. However, since Apple builds systems to run Mac OS X and as such it is quite possible that during the development of these system certain peramaters and conditions have to be made that may in effect disable the installation of Windows. In essence Apple didn't go out of the way to disable Windows, but the hardware maybe tweaked for Mac OS X use that Windows may not be compatible with. That is Apple's right to do this considering it is their hardware and software.

[mrplow]

just throwing out more ideas since I don't have an intel mac yet...

if anyone knows what I'm talking about and has the means, they should try this:
have a copy of vista/XP/whatever set up on an external hard drive (probably done through an actual PC) and install macdrive, an app that lets windows read os x volumes (atleast i think its called macdrive).. then somehow clone that drive to an OSX drive. in theory, which is probably wrong, windows will run off an OS X partition once macdrive is installed? and being a mac partition, perhaps the mac bootloader will actually boot from it... it seems clear to me that our problem is that it sees a non-mac-formatted disc and disregards it.

[baw]

I'm going to assume Macdrive loads after Windows boots, so no, that will not work. I can't see Windows booting itself on an HFS formatted drive.

[mrplow]

i was thinking the same thing, but being that i don't know-- i thought i'd throw it out there. i do wonder if theres anything to the freedos method someone mentioned on another forum... but i dont see why intel mac would boot that but not a vista cd

[quiklee]

Screenshots would be awesome! *hint hint*

[jcadam]

has noone tried wiping their iMac's HD clean and then attempting to install windows, or linux, and all other/ non-OSX x86 operating systems? I would have, but I don't have any x86 macs yet. I'm a Powermac guy and am waiting on the intel Powermacs; I currently have a Powermac G3, Powermac G4, and Powermac G5

[mrplow]

ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...t/EfiHowTo.txt

This file includes instructions for burning an EFI-bootable CDROM/DVDROM. Perhaps if Vista (or XP?) is reburned via these instructions it will in turn work... although, I think it should be atleast attmpted with a nearly-blank cd just to see if it shows up when you hold down OPTION at boot. Also, any EFI compatible linux distros that could be tested? I'd do this if I had the means... but alas, I'm trapped in a dorm room with an imac G5.

[Stratus Fear]

After a bit of searching around on the subject, I found this at arstechnica forums.

http://nak.journalspace.com/?cmd=dis...mp;entryid=407

So if the reason a Vista CD doesn't boot is that we're missing UDF and El Torito support in EFI, well... I do suppose someone could write (or even find or rip from some other EFI system) those drivers.

[sebaz]

So al we need to do, in theory, is to re-burn the Window cd with the EFI-bootable files in there. Anybody willing to try it?

[Stratus Fear]

What I'm really wondering is...
I wasn't sure the Vista DVD is actually written in UDF (doesn't it have an ISO/Joliet on it too?). If it's not UDF, then you ought to be able to do something as simple as popping the CD in there, getting that boot menu and loading the efi file off of the CD. Perhaps that'd boot the disc. If not, it shouldn't be too difficult to make your own ISO either...

[ravenz]

Ok, I have Windows XP running on my Intel iMac through a VM right now. See updates over at this thread:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=1#post2842438

[mrplow]

unless for some reason apple has their own type of firmware/efi overwriting intel's, the instructions posted above include burning an EFI configuartion disk-- to boot the EFI control screen, or something of that sort.. someone should ATLEAST try this.. my amazon imac isnt shipping until mid feb (but im getting it for $1020!!!)

[mrplow]

Originally Posted by Stratus Fear

After a bit of searching around on the subject, I found this at arstechnica forums.

http://nak.journalspace.com/?cmd=dis...mp;entryid=407

So if the reason a Vista CD doesn't boot is that we're missing UDF and El Torito support in EFI, well... I do suppose someone could write (or even find or rip from some other EFI system) those drivers.

and the Vista DVD *is* UDF.

[sebaz]

Well I think we may have something guys, check out this Intel text file here: ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...t/EfiHowTo.txt

Using Nero* Enterprise Edition to Burn EFI Visible/Bootable CD-ROMs
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the following to burn an EFI visible/bootable CD-ROM or DVD-ROM using Nero* Enterprise Edition:
1. Start Nero Enterprise Edition.
2. Close any wizard that pops up when the program started.
3. On the top menu, click File > New for a new compilation.
4. In the upper left pane of the New Compilation window, select CD-ROM or DVD-ROM.
5. In the lower left pane of the New Compilation window, select CD-ROM (EFI boot).
6. In the New Compilation window, click the Label tab. Fill in the CD-ROM volume label information and any other relevant text you want on the CD-ROM. The top pull-down should say ISO9660.
7. Click the New button in the New Compilation window, which should open a left-hand window pane with the contents of what will be burned on the CD-ROM/DVD-ROM. The right-hand pane should be the File Browser.
8. From the File Browser pane, right-click on any files/directories you want and drag them to the left-hand pane.
9. If you want the CD-ROM to be bootable, you must copy the boot file from the File Browser pane into the following directory and rename it as indicated:
10. For Itanium®-based systems: EFIBOOTBOOTIA64.efi
11. For IA-32 processor-based systems: EFIBOOTBOOTIA32.efi
12. After all the files have been copied to the left-hand pane, click the Burn button to burn the CD-ROM. The bottom bar will tell you how much of the CD-ROM will be used by the files that you have put into the left-hand pane or NEW FATISO1.

Now where can we get these .efi files? Maybe they are here??

ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...1.10.14.62.zip

Can anyone search their DVDs that came with their intel imacs for .efi file?

Most likely they could be hidden from plain sight..so search hidden files as well..

[mrplow]

already said most of that earlier :-p

another important piece of information.... that i don't have..... as usual, is what format are the OS X Install cds that come with the intel imac?? im thinkin' they're prob GPT... whatever that is.

[ururk]

Similar ground is being covered here:

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6956

[sebaz]

Originally Posted by mrplow

already said most of that earlier :-p

another important piece of information.... that i don't have..... as usual, is what format are the OS X Install cds that come with the intel imac?? im thinkin' they're prob GPT... whatever that is.

Will Disk Utility tell you that?

[sebaz]

I just read this:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303124

Press C during startup: Start up from a bootable CD or DVD, such as the Mac OS X Install disc that came with the computer.
Press D during startup: Start up in Apple Hardware Test (AHT), if the Install DVD 1 is in the computer.

So pressing and holding D is only for the hardware test dvd, else is regular C which works with both DVDs and CDs..

[clotje]

How to Make an EFI Bootable CD-ROM/DVD-ROM (see the Intel text file here: ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...t/EfiHowTo.txt)

CDs and DVDs must be burned using the El Torito format.
For Linux*-based systems, other programs are also available to burn CDs in the El Torito format; this topic does not cover these programs, however. CDs that are burned with the El Torito format are visible to both operating systems (Windows* and Linux) and EFI

See also: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/167685/EN-US/

Clotje .. Still waiting on my MacBoo Pro

[MacCloot]

I found this one about the "El Torito" format: http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/files.../5969-3192.pdf. Mabyby this will help ...

See U,
MacCloot

[mrplow]

Originally Posted by sebaz

Will Disk Utility tell you that?

Just right click/control click the disc and goto Get Info