[ero2]

I was looking at buying a used dual core 1.8. I think it would still be a huge upgrade from my single 1.67 powerbook. I am curious what kind of chips they are going to use, or when the upgrade to the power mac line is going to come at all? Would you guys still buy a powermac today? Any reason not to? I am also going to go with the 20" Apple LCD I believe.

[mduell]

There is no dual core 1.8 (with PCIe), only a dual processor 1.8 (with PCI-X or PCI depending on revision).
The PowerMacs will probably skip Sossaman (4GB RAM limit unless they use PAE) and go directly to Conroe and Kentsfield or Woodcrest.

[ero2]

sorry, yes it is a dual processor, got caught up in the dual core core talk.

[rhashem]

Originally Posted by ero2

I was looking at buying a used dual core 1.8. I think it would still be a huge upgrade from my single 1.67 powerbook. I am curious what kind of chips they are going to use, or when the upgrade to the power mac line is going to come at all? Would you guys still buy a powermac today? Any reason not to? I am also going to go with the 20" Apple LCD I believe.

What you're looking at is a new PowerMac replacement in the late summer 2006 timeframe, concurrent with the release of Intel's Conroe chip. The chip will be substantially faster than any G5. The Core Duos, which are showing up G5s in a lot of benchmarks, actually comparable with the low end of AMD's dual-core lineup (which are currently the fastest dual-core x86 chips out there). Conroe, in comparison, is expected to compete with and perhaps beat the best of AMD's chips.

Your overall decision depends on a few things:

1) How often do you upgrade? If you upgrade once every four-five years, then getting a new PowerMac now wouldn't be a great idea. If you upgrade every year or two, then getting one now will be fine.

2) What software do you need to run? If you use FCP, and are confident that Apple will release Universal Binaries by March, then buying a new PowerMac wouldn't be the greatest idea. On the other hand, if you use something like Matlab (which won't even run on the new Intel Macs because they embed Java), and don't expect a Universal Binary in a reasonable timeframe, then buying a new G5 would be okay.

[G5man]

Getting an older PowerMac maybe a mistake if you plan on keeping it 5 years, PCI E will still be in 5 years from now but Apple software will cut support to Mac's in the next two years. It is probably best waiting if you plan on not upgrading for 5 years after purchase. If planning on 2 years get the G5 now.

[ero2]

you really think they will cut support to all the people with PowerPC processors?

[madmanXwater]

I doubt Apple would cut support that fast. There are just to many PowerPC Macs out there and it will be around a year from now that Apple sells it's last PowerPC model. So I would think you would get at least 4-5 years before Apple does this, maybe longer.

As far as performance goes, any dual G5 is going to be a big jump from the PowerBook G4. I see questions like yours all the time and there is no easy answer. You have to really be honest with yourself about what you needs and wants are. I’m in the same boat as you; I have a PowerBook G4 1.33Ghz and need a lot more power for home. I’m trying to decide if I should buy a Dual 2Ghz PowerMac now or wait for new Intel Models. I mainly use Logic Pro and Final Cut Studio, which will both be out for Intel Macs in the next 60 days or so, but we just don’t know for sure when new PowerMacs with Intel CPUs will be available. Most people seem to point to end of summer based on Intel’s road map for faster CPUs that will out perform the current G5s and that’s a bit of a wait if you ask me. I tend to upgrade my systems every year or two so I might just go with a current G5 and upgrade late in the year if the new systems are worth it.

I just got a Quad G5 at work and the power is killer. I’ve been testing a Dual 2Ghz G5 at home and the difference in power over the PowerBook is fantastic; there isn’t anything it can’t handle.

Bottom line, any Dual G5 you choose is going to be 4 times the PowerBook and well worth the upgrade.

Mike

[gudrummer]

Well,i have the 2.7 since june/05 and the performance is great.I too use FCP and coming from a very old Mac,this thing blew me away.If you need it now and it'll help you do your work,go for it.The only thing i will surely miss this year will be a better AGP card than the X800,but i'm buying it anyway!

[elrah]

I read an interview with Steve Jobs (it was a digged story and I can't remember the link).

He was questioned whether he thought the announcement of Intel Macs would affect the sales of the existing PPC range.

He replied that he thought Individuals would wait for the new Intel Macs. Whilst companies that run multiple workstations 9-5 would still find a lot of use in the recent Dual Cores.

Having read this I would tend to agree. Buying a new tower Mac will be a large chunk out of any individuals budget. Ask yourself if you reallly need the new computer *now*

If you are prepared to wait a few months you will have a computer that will be, if the iMacs and MacBook Pros' are any indication, 2-3 or 4-5 times faster than the PPC counterparts.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by G5man

...but Apple software will cut support to Mac's in the next two years.

Are you out of your mind? What grounds do you have for saying that?

[baw]

^^ I was thinking the same thing.

[festeringwounds]

Get a used G5 on ebay or from the marketplace here on macnn. But yeah, I think it'd be stupid to pay teh premium for a brand new one right now.

[jamil5454]

Let's say you decide the the Intel machines are crap so you buy one of the last PPC machines in December. And then you buy AppleCare.

Apple has to provide support for your product for three years from the purchase date. So we're looking at support for existing PPC Macs AT LEAST until 2010.

I imagine Universal Binaries will be around for a long time as well. So, if buying a G5 tower now will help you get your work done and earn more money, I say go for it. They're still good machines.

[ero2]

should I still buy a used one? What kind of problems should I worry about? Anything I need to specifically watch out for? Is the 64mb graphics card upgradeable?

That's all the questions I could think of, and thanks for the help guys. As long as they support them for a few years, and the software keeps being written in universal binaries, meaning they will still work on the powerpc processor then I should be fine, right?

[jamil5454]

If I were you, I'd buy from the Apple refurb store. That way you'll still get the same warranty as a new product.

[Bwa]

Watch out for the squeal/clicking/etc noises from the power supply if you're not buying a new dual core G5. 10.4.4 includes a processor control panel that allows G5 users to turn off a processor or to disable nap (which fixes the squeal my G5 has). I believe some of the 1.8 machines had noise issues as well.

Personally I wish I had bought a dual core G5 and avoided all the noise (I ended up putting my G5 on the floor behind my desk, and the squeal is less obvious to me now, but it still irks me knowing that my expensive machine has such an issue).

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by rhashem

What you're looking at is a new PowerMac replacement in the late summer 2006 timeframe, concurrent with the release of Intel's Conroe chip. The chip will be substantially faster than any G5. The Core Duos, which are showing up G5s in a lot of benchmarks, actually comparable with the low end of AMD's dual-core lineup (which are currently the fastest dual-core x86 chips out there). Conroe, in comparison, is expected to compete with and perhaps beat the best of AMD's chips.

Well, it's kind of unfair to compare the next-gen Intel cpu to the current generation of AMD cpus. Up until now they have been more than a match for Intel. To address benchmarks, I think the PPC970MP is still on par with current system, provided that you use the latest compilers. This is a hypothetical argument for Mac users, though.

BTW, I don't think Conroe will make it into the PowerMacs since are for single-processor systems only. I guess they will use Woodcrest (suitable for two-way systems).

[Todd Madson]

Remember too that the G5 units tend to have more expensive parts than
any other mac so get Applecare if you can. I did with my DP 2.5 dual
last summer and I'll be covered for three years and that is a big deal
when I'm buying a machine with liquid cooling. Remember the thread
of the guy whose power went out and had to spend $1300 for two CPUs
and some other component (sounds like a ram slot on the motherboard
died too) and he was out of warranty and no applecare. Definetely get
any machine you get covered.

Otherwise, I'm very happy with my G5 - no problems, very very fast
and I'll be using it for quite some time to come.

[ero2]

so if a machine is out of warranty and cannot get applecare, would you guys recommend passing on it? There is one in the marketplace here I am looking at...

[mduell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

BTW, I don't think Conroe will make it into the PowerMacs since are for single-processor systems only. I guess they will use Woodcrest (suitable for two-way systems).

Apple could use Conroe for the lower end dual core models (which are probably the bulk of the sales) and then drop in Kentsfield for a quad when it becomes available.

[ero2]

Originally Posted by ero2

so if a machine is out of warranty and cannot get applecare, would you guys recommend passing on it? There is one in the marketplace here I am looking at...

sorry, trying to mke a quick decision. should I pass on this one?

[f1000]

Originally Posted by ero2

sorry, trying to mke a quick decision. should I pass on this one?

You never answered rhashem's second question: what do you need the PowerMac for? You're sort of comparing apples to oranges because I don't see towers as being direct replacements for laptops. The two fill different niches.

Why not consider the MacBook Pro?

[ero2]

sorry, I scan velvia slides, shoot with a Nikon D200, use photoshop for graphic arts. My usual files are 32mb NEF files, 10.2 MP, and a lot of times I will batch process 300 or 400 shots. I had a 1.67 powerbook and sold it thinking I would get the MBP, but I don't think I am ever going to go the power I am looking to get out of a laptop, which is why I am looking at desktops. I use PS CS1 a lot, Nikon Capture, which is why I am looking at powermacs, because I need native support.

[f1000]

OK, then why wait for an Intel PowerMac? That won't offer native support either. I guess what I'm saying is that you should buy the PowerMac 1.8. I'm not a graphics professional, though, so I'll let others give you more sage advice.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mduell

Apple could use Conroe for the lower end dual core models (which are probably the bulk of the sales) and then drop in Kentsfield for a quad when it becomes available.

Well, that would mean using two different mobos and I'm not sure they'll do that. Unless they release a new product line beyond the iMac and the Mac mini, I somehow don't see a place for single-cpu systems. The iMac uses Yonah, and I am pretty sure the successor to the Mac mini will use that chip, too. But let's see what happens.

Pretty soon (in the next few days, literally speaking), my university will place an order for a Macbook Pro, so I don't actually have to wait for either

[Cadaver]

It could be 6+ months before Photoshop and the rest of the Adobe line is Intel-native. Who knows when Nikon's software will be.
If this is what you use, and you need the machine sooner rather than later, go with the G5. Its still a fine machine, and isn't any slower than it was the day before the Intel Macs were released.

[ero2]

I guess my other question is, is the G5 2.0GHZ with 1.5 gig of ram, going to be faster at photoshop, even under rosetta, running the same sets of actions, batch processes, etc?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Well, that would mean using two different mobos and I'm not sure they'll do that. Unless they release a new product line beyond the iMac and the Mac mini, I somehow don't see a place for single-cpu systems. The iMac uses Yonah, and I am pretty sure the successor to the Mac mini will use that chip, too. But let's see what happens.

I think Merom, Allendale, and Kensfield will all be supported in the same socket (probably LGA775), so Apple only needs one pro desktop mobo.
I think we'll continue to see a $400-500 single core mini, as well as a $700-900 dual core mini.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mduell

I think Merom, Allendale, and Kensfield will all be supported in the same socket (probably LGA775), so Apple only needs one pro desktop mobo.
I think we'll continue to see a $400-500 single core mini, as well as a $700-900 dual core mini.

Well, I thought Apple would put Xeons (well, if they are still called Xeons when they will be released that is ) in their PowerMacs, not just Desktop cpus. Hence, I don't think they will use the `consumer socket' cpus. So I think the relevant cpus are Sossaman and Woodcrest, at least initially (since they will be the only ones available that is ).

[ero2]

but the question still remains, would you buy a used one, where it was not possible to get applecare on it?

I have decided on the G5 for sure, now just, which one...

[OreoCookie]

Well, I personally wouldn't do it if you really need a reliable machine. But that's just my personal opinion. BTW, you can get AppleCare within the first year of ownership.

That said, maybe you can take a look at refurbished PowerMacs -- a Dual 2.7 is a great machine, for instance.

[ero2]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Well, I personally wouldn't do it if you really need a reliable machine. But that's just my personal opinion. BTW, you can get AppleCare within the first year of ownership.

That said, maybe you can take a look at refurbished PowerMacs -- a Dual 2.7 is a great machine, for instance.

So the question is, I found a really good deal on a dual 1.8, with 2 years of applecare left, but the gentleman said that the applecare is in his companies name and he doesn't have the original recipt anymore. If I just took it into the apple store, would they still honor the apple care without him officially transferring it to me? The unit is in great shape, has upgraded ram and HD, and he has several thousand feedback. I am just concerned about the apple care...

Thanks again for all the help here guys, hopefully this is the one.

[jamil5454]

Originally Posted by ero2

So the question is, I found a really good deal on a dual 1.8, with 2 years of applecare left, but the gentleman said that the applecare is in his companies name and he doesn't have the original recipt anymore. If I just took it into the apple store, would they still honor the apple care without him officially transferring it to me? The unit is in great shape, has upgraded ram and HD, and he has several thousand feedback. I am just concerned about the apple care...

Thanks again for all the help here guys, hopefully this is the one.

You can all 1-800-APL-CARE when you get the machine and have it transfered under your name. It really doesn't matter though, just as long as it has AppleCare.

A Dual 1.8 would be a great machine for 2 years. However, if the chirping/beeping will bother you, I'd suggest getting one the Dual Core PowerMacs. There are ways to limit the chirping safely though; I usually ran BOINC in the background for SETI@Home (for some reason keeping the CPUs maxed all the time greatly reduced the chirping for me).

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ero2

So the question is, I found a really good deal on a dual 1.8, with 2 years of applecare left, but the gentleman said that the applecare is in his companies name and he doesn't have the original recipt anymore. If I just took it into the apple store, would they still honor the apple care without him officially transferring it to me? The unit is in great shape, has upgraded ram and HD, and he has several thousand feedback. I am just concerned about the apple care...

Thanks again for all the help here guys, hopefully this is the one.

AppleCare is registered on the machine and you can transfer that. However, I would call Apple and check whether AppleCare really is registered to that machine.

With AppleCare, it seems like what you are looking for (if the price is right).

[ero2]

Originally Posted by jamil5454

You can all 1-800-APL-CARE when you get the machine and have it transfered under your name. It really doesn't matter though, just as long as it has AppleCare.

A Dual 1.8 would be a great machine for 2 years. However, if the chirping/beeping will bother you, I'd suggest getting one the Dual Core PowerMacs. There are ways to limit the chirping safely though; I usually ran BOINC in the background for SETI@Home (for some reason keeping the CPUs maxed all the time greatly reduced the chirping for me).

if I bought a new dual 2.0 would that have the beeping as well?

[Todd Madson]

Another thing: I'd be leery of buying a machine from someone where the
unit is registered to his company. Is he authorized to sell it?

[ero2]

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Another thing: I'd be leery of buying a machine from someone where the
unit is registered to his company. Is he authorized to sell it?

pretty sure, everything he has sold since 03 has been mac computers, LOL. So I would hope so. But he said he cannot guarantee it will transfer and I said, well then I cannot buy it, thanks.

[jamil5454]

Originally Posted by ero2

if I bought a new dual 2.0 would that have the beeping as well?

So far, all reports indicate that the new Dual Core PowerMacs are silent (apart from the usual fan activity here and there).

So, to answer your question, No.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Well, I thought Apple would put Xeons (well, if they are still called Xeons when they will be released that is ) in their PowerMacs, not just Desktop cpus. Hence, I don't think they will use the `consumer socket' cpus. So I think the relevant cpus are Sossaman and Woodcrest, at least initially (since they will be the only ones available that is ).

But if Intel continues to use a shared bus, then they're better off with a single socket than two sockets (since you can usually get higher bus speeds with just one socket). I think the pricing may even favor using one quad core chip instead of a pair of duals.
I think Sossaman is pretty much out of the picture due to the RAM ceiling (4GB without PAE).

[Dark Goob]

I diligently waited, as all faithful and true Macolytes do, until the Stevenote and other MacWorld announcements revealed and reconfirmed several (for me) undesirable qualities about the MacBook Pro and Intel Macs in general:

* it would not be available immediately
* its battery life is unknown
* they will not run the current version of MOTU DP4
* DP5 was not yet announced and won't ship until later for a cost
* Classic will *not* run (goodbye, Risk II).


And so, I bought a demo-model 1.67 hi-rez AluBook from the Apple Store in Tigard (Bridgeport car-mall) for 1600 bux. Even with just 512 MB of RAM, and a 5400 RPM 80 GB drive, it runs like a dream, and I can't wait to upgrade the HD and RAM to 2 GB and 5400 RPM 120 GB, and still have only spent $2k... or, should it look smart, sell the thing and get a MacBook Pro.

Plus, I have my computer *now*, am writing my thesis on it *now*, and am recording my band's live shows as well as practices *now*. I like now. Now is a good time for me.

Anyone for a game of Risk II? No? OK. I'll be downstairs, developing software in EMACS on my PowerBook via the terminal on my SE/30.

-=DG=-

PS -- There are still many things OS X could learn from System 7.1.