[waterninja1932]

Ok. I'm a Gateway/Windows XP kinda guy. Our neighbors had an old iMac (the kind that's the all in one, blue, bulky thing) and they gave it to me. This piece of crap won't even boot up. You can press the power button, and the button will turn red and you can hear the machine whirring. It makes you think 'Ok, this is a good sign.' Then, the button turns from red to green, and then no color, and then the whirring stops. During this brief period that the machine is 'on', the monitor is blank, and does not show any color at all. PLEASE help me, as I want to get this thing going.

[torifile]

But it's a piece of "crap".

You've got to give us some more information about the machine. What model is it? If you can't find that, can you at least get the serial number (should be somewhere on the casing) and we can try to find out.

oh and a "gateway" kind of a guy? Why would you admit that?

[Mojo]

I'd be happy to assist but I'm having trouble getting past the attitude...

Might as well stick with the Gateway...

[waterninja1932]

1) Gateways ROCK!!!
2) Sorry, I wasn't trying to have a SERIOUS attitude...
3) I'm gonna type in the specs from the stickers

PowerPC G3 233 MHz/512k cache/32 MB/4GB HD/24x CD-ROM/modem
There are some weird Japenese symbols, and then 3872P912
Also, on another sticker it says 825-4382-A

I hope this helps!

[JKT]

Do you hear any chimes (like breaking glass or other not-so-good to hear sounds) when you try and start? If so, then you have a hardware issue.

If you don't even get that far, you will need the system install/restore disks to find out if you can boot the Mac at all. FWIW, that is a very old first generation iMac (over 7 years old... and crikey, how that time has flown by) so it may not be in the best of nick.

[waterninja1932]

Yeah, I heard chimes. I'll check out the link. Thanks!
EDIT: It was a 'good to hear' sound though. I checked it out on my piano, and it was a C#, but that won't really help.

[JKT]

The Service manual for it (with details on how to disassemble it should you need/want to) can be found here (~9.1 MB pdf)

FWIW, if you were ever do consider it, the details on that Apple specs page are a little misleading. You can actually install either 384MB or 512MB of RAM in that little beauty depending on which version you have and the largest hard drive you can put in it is 128GB. The most advanced OS you will be able to install on it is Mac OS X 10.3.9 (though it would probably be pretty slow). It will have shipped with Mac OS 8.1 or 8.5 on it.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

Yeah, I heard chimes. I'll check out the link. Thanks!
EDIT: It was a 'good to hear' sound though. I checked it out on my piano, and it was a C#, but that won't really help.

Actually that is a good sound to hear as it means it is probably successfully booting. Try holding down the shift key as you boot to see if it gets any further.

Btw, did you get the system disks with the machine or not? If you did, that is where I would start. Insert the system restore disk and hold down the C key as you reboot. This should cause it to use the CD to boot from rather than the hard drive. If it successfully boots from the CD it would suggest a problem with either the Hard Drive or the system installed on the hard drive. The CD will have an application on it called Disk First Aid that you could use to check the Hard Drive.

If the screen remains blank, it could be a problem with the monitor/video card.

Btw, the manual I linked to has troubleshooting sections that should help you diagnose what is wrong.

[JKT]

Oops, things were done a little differently on those Macs:

Starting Up From the Software Install CD

Follow these steps to start up from the software install CD.

1 Turn on your computer if it’s not already running.

2 Press the Open button on your CD-ROM drive.

3 Carefully open the tray and place the software install CD in the tray with the disc label facing
up.
Make sure the disc is lying flat in the tray.

4 Gently push the tray in.

5 Hold down the C key on your keyboard while you choose Restart from the Special menu and
wait for the message “Welcome to Mac OS” to appear.

If this doesn’t work, restart the computer, make sure the CD is inserted, and hold down the
Command, Option, Shift, and Delete keys (to temporarily disable the hard disk). Hold the
keys down until the message “Welcome to Mac OS” appears.

6 When you see the screen that says “Mac OS” and the phrase “Starting Up,” release the C key.
In a few seconds the desktop appears. The CD’s icon appears at the top-right corner of the
desktop (above your hard disk icon), and the Apple (K) menu does not contain the usual
items.

[waterninja1932]

Ok, I looked a bit harder, and I found the serial #. XB8378SYDFN
The Ethernet ID is: 000502D37784. Thanks for all the help guys!

EDIT: Ok, I tried the shift thing, and it didn't work. I'll go on to the next one.
EDIT: I tried pressing control and command at the same time, and starting the iMac, but it failed.
EDIT: I tried pressing the reset button, it didn't work.
EDIT: I tried pressing command, control, P and R.
EDIT: I tried putting the disc in the drive and pressing c. Well, duh it didn't work!

Any other suggestions? (other than getting a new video card or something, that's what I'm going to try LAST.)

[GraphicUmp]

Sounds to me like your PRAM battery needs to be replaced....that's usually a good starting point for such an old machine.

[JKT]

Given the age of the machine, that is a definite possibility - look in the manual to see how to find and replace it.

This store sells them - I'm just posting it as a guide to how much you can expect to pay for one. I have no knowledge of the store at all. I'd shop around to see if there are other places to get one.

[eddiecatflap]

gateways rock ?

now i know he's joking

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by eddiecatflap

gateways rock ?

now i know he's joking

Well, from my experience with Gateways, I haven't had any problems with them.

[Mojo]

Radio Shack may have a battery that will work.

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Radio Shack may have a battery that will work.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. But, at our Radio Shack, EVERYTHING is majorly pricy, and the employees are jerks and think they know everything.

EDIT:
1) How far into the iMac will I have to go to replace the battery?
2) Which of the two batteries should I buy? (I think my best bet would be to go for the more expensive one. Right?)

[GraphicUmp]

This one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by GraphicUmp

This one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

Yeah. Like I said. A liiiiiiiiiiittle pricy.

[GraphicUmp]

And JKT posted the link to the Service Manual above...it has all the steps required to replace the PRAM battery, along with what tools you'll need. It's not that difficult.


Just think how long the first one lasted....the computer was built in, what, 1998? How many batteries do you have that last 8 years?

[mavherzog]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Radio Shack may have a battery that will work.

"You've got questions? We've got blank stares."

[Mojo]

I can't speak to this particular battery, but I remember at least one instance where a Radio Shack battery I purchased there was competitively priced. But if it is different in this case then by all means go somewhere else.

[Mojo]

Note that I said "may" have a battery. I have only purchased one Mac battery at RS and it was competitively priced; in this instance you may be able to do better somewhere else. And I didn't need any questions answered, just the battery rung-up.

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by GraphicUmp

And JKT posted the link to the Service Manual above...it has all the steps required to replace the PRAM battery, along with what tools you'll need. It's not that difficult.


Just think how long the first one lasted....the computer was built in, what, 1998? How many batteries do you have that last 8 years?

Good point, I downloaded the service manual, and I searched for PRAM, PRAM battery, and battery. None of them had results that told me how to replace the PRAM battery. Please tell me what page it is on.

[badnewsblair]

The PRAM battery is usually the issue in this case. Keep working that angle. Is there anyone close that services Macs? Are you the type of guy/girl to get into the computer yourself and make upgrades. The PRAM is deep in those iMacs, but it is easily servicable at home. Please be careful though with the CRT tube as they can discharge and quite possibly explode, although where you are going on that machine for the PRAM you shouldn't even be near such a thing (the cap at the back of the CRT tube is the "NO NO" spot). Good luck and the general rule of thumb here is that we love to help as long as you are willing to approach us with a positive attitude (which you did, we understand frustration).

[JKT]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

Good point, I downloaded the service manual, and I searched for PRAM, PRAM battery, and battery. None of them had results that told me how to replace the PRAM battery. Please tell me what page it is on.

Good question.. it seems that this model iMac doesn't actually have one (which is a new one on me...)

You might want to look at pages 86 to 94 (=pages 4 to 12 of the troubleshooting section), in particular pages 92 and 93 (10 and 11 of Troubleshooting).

Also, refer to pages 99 and 100 (17 and 18 of Troubleshooting) which deals with Power and Video problems.

Resetting the CUDA is what you need to do, and you can see where the button to do this is on the logic board in the diagram on page 72 (=56 of Basics):

The Cuda is a microcontroller chip. Its function is to:
• Turn system power on and off.
• Manage system resets from various commands.
• Maintain parameter RAM (PRAM).
• Manage the real-time clock.

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by JKT

Good question.. it seems that this model iMac doesn't actually have one (which is a new one on me...)

You might want to look at pages 86 to 94 (=pages 4 to 12 of the troubleshooting section), in particular pages 92 and 93 (10 and 11 of Troubleshooting).

Also, refer to pages 99 and 100 (17 and 18 of Troubleshooting) which deals with Power and Video problems.

Resetting the CUDA is what you need to do, and you can see where the button to do this is on the logic board in the diagram on page 72 (=56 of Basics):

The Cuda is a microcontroller chip. Its function is to:
• Turn system power on and off.
• Manage system resets from various commands.
• Maintain parameter RAM (PRAM).
• Manage the real-time clock.

Thanks so much! I'll try reseting it then.
EDIT: I looked around for other options, and found this link. I'm pretty sure it is exactly what I needed. Tell me what you think.
http://www.macopz.com/columns/imacrepair/index.html

[ciparis]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

Thanks so much! I'll try reseting it then.
EDIT: I looked around for other options, and found this link. I'm pretty sure it is exactly what I needed. Tell me what you think.
http://www.macopz.com/columns/imacrepair/index.html

Are you having these exact symptoms?

After about ten seconds the power button light turns to green and immediately the computer turns off (probably accompanied by a “zap” sound from within). Typically the computer will not even begin to power up again unless you have let it sit for a while, at which point the same thing happens when you try to start it up again.

Especially the part in bold?

[waterninja1932]

I'm not sure about the zap part, but everything is exactly the same. I unplugged the video plug thingy, and the iMac turned on untill I shut it off, which was an hour later. I just need to get an external monitor, and I think I will be set. I don't want to buy a part for 70$!

[Eriamjh]

I think you are wasting your time. I betcha that iMac has a shorted flyback transformer. A common failure of the iMac Rev As & Bs, as soon as the iMac tries to turn on the display, the short draws a ton of current from the power supply and it shuts down.

The transformer is $70 to $100 and a pain to replace. I suggest tearing the iMac down and trying to powerup the mobo using a PC power supply. Search XLR8yourmac.com for how to do this.

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I think you are wasting your time. I betcha that iMac has a shorted flyback transformer. A common failure of the iMac Rev As & Bs, as soon as the iMac tries to turn on the display, the short draws a ton of current from the power supply and it shuts down.

The transformer is $70 to $100 and a pain to replace. I suggest tearing the iMac down and trying to powerup the mobo using a PC power supply. Search XLR8yourmac.com for how to do this.

How am I wasting my time? I know it has a shorted Flyback Transformer, but I don't want to take a risk around that CRT, or buy a part for that much money. I just went on eBay, bought an adapter for the monitor ports (something like this http://search.ebay.com/search/search...onitor+adapter ) and I am going to get an external monitor for free from one of my friends. I just think that tearing the machine and buying a part for 80$ or so would be a bit more of a waste of time.

[ciparis]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

but I don't want to take a risk around that CRT

Safe move crazy how long those things can hold a knock-you-on-your-arse charge.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by JKT

Good question.. it seems that this model iMac doesn't actually have one (which is a new one on me...)

Nope, the G3 iMacs all use the same 2/3AA Lithium Battery, and in an iMac that old, it's almost guaranteed to be dead (especially if it spent any time in storage).

Yes, Radio Shack overprices that battery, but it's not much more than you'd spend ordering one online and paying shipping on it.

tooki

[Helmling]

My last PC was a Gateway.

Good riddance.

Question, though, why is a Windows XP/Gateweay kinda guy working so hard to bring an aged Mac back from the dead? I know you've heard how much better it is on this side of the fence, but Macs still aren't like fine wine...they don't get better with age.

[waterninja1932]

Originally Posted by Helmling

My last PC was a Gateway.

Good riddance.

Question, though, why is a Windows XP/Gateweay kinda guy working so hard to bring an aged Mac back from the dead? I know you've heard how much better it is on this side of the fence, but Macs still aren't like fine wine...they don't get better with age.

1) Our family has had 5 Gateways, and we didn't have many problems at ALL.
2) I'm bringing an iMac back from the dead because it was for free, and I thought if I got really lucky, it might be something simple wrong with it. Then, I could do something really easy, and I would have a decent computer of my own.
3) About the whole 'better at this side of the fence' comment. I know you guys didn't have viruses attacking your computers for a LONG time, but finally someone got fed up with people with Macs bragging, and made a virus that targets Macs. Did you ever think of it that way???

[JKT]

Originally Posted by tooki

Nope, the G3 iMacs all use the same 2/3AA Lithium Battery, and in an iMac that old, it's almost guaranteed to be dead (especially if it spent any time in storage).

Yes, Radio Shack overprices that battery, but it's not much more than you'd spend ordering one online and paying shipping on it.

tooki

If it does, where is it? There is no mention of one in the service manual and there is none that I could see on the images of the mobo in the service manual. I'm not saying that there might not be one... just that it isn't described or imaged at all in the service manual which strongly suggests that there isn't. I know the later model iMac G3s have one as I had to replace one myself a month or so ago, but what about the original bondis?

[JKT]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

3) About the whole 'better at this side of the fence' comment. I know you guys didn't have viruses attacking your computers for a LONG time, but finally someone got fed up with people with Macs bragging, and made a virus that targets Macs. Did you ever think of it that way???

The no viruses for OS X thing has just been a brucey bonus all these years... quite minor in the grand scheme of things. It is the OS and the software that is what makes the Mac much, much better... fwiw

[ciparis]

Originally Posted by waterninja1932

Did you ever think of it that way???

The "oh no I'd better update my antivirus and patch my OS before I connect to the Internet" way?

No thankfully. Knock on wood.

[iLikebeer]

1st things, if the flyback transformer is fried, just order a new rev A 233 off ebay for $50 or get that little 1U rack to mount the mobo and stuff in.

How was it stored? Has it worked recently? These things are dust traps, and also internal connections can come apart after a while. You might try opening it up, cleaning everything, try the CUDA first, then a new PRAM battery, and also make sure the connections are all seated.

Also, try the hard reset in that little bay on the back. Softly push a paper clip into the top little hole with the black triangle above it. These things get cranky on the classic OS after several years. Maybe even try the hard reset 2 or 3 times.

If you can't get the drive open to put in the "restore CD", there is a tiny hole to the bottom right of the blue button on the front. Open it that way, put in the cd, then restart it again holding down the c key.

-It does have a battery, i can't remember if it's on top or below the mobo, but it IS there. Tooki, mine still works after 7 1/2 years
-it probably came with OS 7.1 or 7.5 as I remember.
-32 MB sucks, even when it came out. See if anyone has an old unused mac laying around with a 64 or 128 sodimm to throw in there.
-it WILL take 512MB if you want to put that much into it.
-OS 10.3.9 runs remarkably well on this thing. Use it for internet, itunes, AIM, office or anything basic and it's good enough to get by.

This little guy has been running on and off since 8/24/98 I tried to give it away, but most places wouldn't take it! lol, runs great though. Edit* the lines are from my POS phone cam, too lazy to get out a real camera for this.

[JKT]

Replacing the PRAM battery... see page 14 of this manual. You were right Tooki - still very odd that the service manual didn't include this info, though, and now I know where it is, I can see it in practically every photo of the logic board... sigh

[kick52]

Originally Posted by ciparis

The "oh no I'd better update my antivirus and patch my OS before I connect to the Internet" way?

No thankfully. Knock on wood.

thats great... made my day....

looking at your adaptor thing on ebay, waterninja, i dont think that is going to work. i think that is for OLD macs and not meant for imacs (i'll check up on that though)


good luck

[kick52]

looking at it though, it the mac end looks a lot like the connector inside my imac. its grey and plugs into the cd drive area on the logic board...

[waterninja1932]

Actually, I recieved the adapter, and it works perfectly. Thanks for the help everyone!!!

[kick52]

where did you connect the adaptor? inside or oustside?

i thought youre model doesnt have a vga out....