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kmarketing · Apr 19, 2006, 11:44 AM

Hi,

Sadly, I sold my g5 just the other day, and I miss like heck. But we made some cash on it. I'm trying to find a cheap machine to hold us over until the newer machines come out.

Well, I came across this fine machine that I am probably going to give to my mom. I got it for $200. It is a g4 powermac 450 that has been upgraded to a single 1.42 processor. It has 1gb of memory with 256 chips. It has an airport card in it and a video card with only 16mb memory. Here are the questions:

1. What is a good video card for it, since I am thinking of keeping our 20" acd with it.
2. I kept one of the SATA drives from the g5. I would love to get that installed into this machine. is there a way of doing that?
3. Is there a way to upgrade to airport extreme, or is the regular airport card good enough? We like to download music and watch videos online.

Please help with this.

thanks!!

mduell · Apr 19, 2006, 12:20 PM

1. Any Radeon will give you Quartz Extreme support, Radeon 9600 or better will give you Tiger Core Graphics support.
2. You can do it with a $10 ATA-SATA adapter (mind the 128GB limit) or a $80 PCI SATA card.
3. Regular airport is probably faster than your internet connection; you could get a PCI or USB 802.11g ("Extreme") card, but the Mac compatible ones are relatively pricey.

kmarketing · Apr 19, 2006, 12:33 PM

hi,

Thanks for your suggestions.

Do you think the radeon 9600 cards are worth it considering they seem to go for $100+ on ebay? how about am inexpensive card like the radeon 7000 with 32mb ? is that good at all?

With the ATA-SATA adapter is there any way my 160gb sata drive will work?

I think I will just stick to regular airport then.

Thanks!

SpaceMonkey · Apr 19, 2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by kmarketing

Do you think the radeon 9600 cards are worth it considering they seem to go for $100+ on ebay? how about am inexpensive card like the radeon 7000 with 32mb ? is that good at all?

OWC has the 9600 "modified to work in older systems" for $80. Although they claim that it is only compatible with the Digital Audio/Quicksilver/MDD models, so I'm not sure it would work in an upgraded 450 MHz model.

mduell · Apr 19, 2006, 01:00 PM

7000 is fine if you don't need support for Tiger Core Graphics.

The ATA-SATA adapter will work, but you'll only be able to use the first 137 billion bytes (128GB) out of 160 billion available.

kmarketing · Apr 19, 2006, 01:34 PM

Hi,

In terms of the sata to ide interface, I can't seem to find the right one. All of the ones that I see are to convert ide/regular atas hard drives into sata.

can you please help!

Also, I think we may be running panther (even though I have the tiger cd's and all) on the g4. We ran panther on the g5 that I had and all the programs ran great. Do you think I should be jumping towards tiger?

Thanks!

mduell · Apr 19, 2006, 02:01 PM

This should do the job: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812156011

kmarketing · Apr 19, 2006, 02:44 PM

Hi,

thanks so much!!

Would the card that is included in this set be good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Maxtor-200GB...QQcmdZViewItem

I may be able to get this set cheaper locally, but if it works and I can get a big hard drive with it, that would be great also.

Thanks for all your help!

mduell · Apr 19, 2006, 03:06 PM

The included card probably isn't supported by OSX.

Lateralus · Apr 19, 2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by kmarketing

I got it for $200. It is a g4 powermac 450 that has been upgraded to a single 1.42 processor. It has 1gb of memory with 256 chips. It has an airport card in it and a video card with only 16mb memory. Here are the questions:

You got a killer deal.

kmarketing · 06:26 PM

Hi,

Looking around I think the radeon 8500 is my best bet but it still costs around $80. I see on ebay that I can get a pci radeon 7000 64mb card for about $50. Is there a big difference between the 2 cards? I just want to have the option of running the 20" acd (I may sell it) or another lcd but they all require dvi.

Now this brings me towards $300. Do you think this machine is comparable to a mac mini g4? I was leaning towards that before I picked this up. Again, I just want to try to keep the cheapest machine out there!

I'm also looking at the ide and sata converter, but again, i just don't know if I want to keep on laying out cash. Here's the deal why I wanted that other hard drive:

My wife has a ton of music on that drive that we saved on a firewire drive also, and we have transferred that music on the g4. The one thing that she is upset about is that her playlists are gone. Do you have any idea how we can get that back? other than that, I think we can live without the sata drive for now.

But if you think a sata drive is a worthy investment I will go that way.
Thanks to everyone.

And boy do I miss our g5

Hi,

by the way, do you happen to know which model I have. It was a g4 450mhz/1mb cache I believe, and now it is a 1.4 with 2mb L3 cache. What does that mean? And does it have an agp slot for video cards (I think that's what they call it). I'm trying to learn as much as possible doing searches and all, this is a lot of work !!

Thanks for your help!

kmarketing · Apr 19, 2006, 11:25 PM

Hi,

What do you think about this card? Will this really be good for the powermac?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Edition-ATI-...QQcmdZViewItem

I hate spending more money on it, this will bring it towards $300, but if you think that it would bring major improvements then I'll do it.

How would the machine with this card be compared to say a mac mini 1.42?

Thanks!

mduell · Apr 19, 2006, 11:51 PM

Better? Yes.
Really good? It was top of the line... 4 years ago.

It's about the same as a mini, but obviously with more room to expand.

kmarketing · Apr 20, 2006, 12:21 AM

Hi,

Thanks mduell, i definitely appreciate your opinion. I think my main question is "Is this upgrade worth $90?" I see a cheaper 7000 64mb card on ebay for about $50. That card is a pci while the radeon 8500 is agp. I don't play games on the mac, but definitely use it for internet, watching dvd's, and maybe sometime watching some online videos, some photoshopping, and iphoto, etc.

What would be your advice?

Thanks!

mduell · Apr 20, 2006, 01:45 AM

The video card has zilch to do with anything you plan on doing, so I'd say go with the 7000; it supports the same features (Quartz Extreme) as the 8500.

OreoCookie · Apr 20, 2006, 03:31 AM

I cannot recommend the Radeon 7000. If you can, invest the money for a 9600.

kmarketing · Apr 20, 2006, 07:25 AM

Hi OreoCookie,

Can you tell me why the radeon 7000 is not recommended? Again, I really don't do anything too much that I think I would need a great video card for. But I do want to be able to run an apple cinema display if possible.

Also, is there a big difference between a pci card and an agp card?

And again, I just want to spend the least amount possible. Since you all are much more knowledgeable than I am, I 'll get whatever you recommend.

Thanks so much!

Lateralus · Apr 20, 2006, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

The video card has zilch to do with anything you plan on doing, so I'd say go with the 7000; it supports the same features (Quartz Extreme) as the 8500.

Considering the amount of weight Quartz Extreme takes off the processor, the type of graphics card has everything to do with anything anybody is doing. Simply 'supporting' Quartz Extreme isn't enough.

Another vote to avoid the Radeon 7000. Most people seem to agree that from a performance standpoint, the Radeon 7000 is somewhere between a Rage 128 and a genuine Radeon. If you want to see an actual performance boost, take the plunge and shell out for something in the 8500/9000 family.

OreoCookie · Apr 20, 2006, 11:20 AM

A PCI card is definitely not recommended.
A little background. Quartz Extreme uses the graphics card to draw windows and other user interface effects. This makes moving windows for example much smoother. For example when I compare the speed of the iBook 600 and the iBook 800, the latter is a lot, lot faster. Not because of the cpu, but because of the graphics card. The slower your cpu is, the more you will benefit from a faster gpu in fact. Again, I'm not talking about gaming or anything related to hardcore video editing (with core graphics filters).

A PCI card is not natively supported by Quartz Extreme. There are hacks, but these are not desirable if you have other options (the reason is that the PCI bus is a bottleneck which limits the speed-up). A PCI card cannot be recommended for your system.

The Radeon 7000 is a lot slower than the Radeon 9600 and you will probably `feel' the difference. So the cheapest option is clear, but IMHO it's really worth spending the extra $30 for the faster graphics card (as in most useful option). The 9600 will also be faster than the 8500 for the same price.

Originally Posted by mduell

The video card has zilch to do with anything you plan on doing, so I'd say go with the 7000; it supports the same features (Quartz Extreme) as the 8500.

This not not true. Quartz Extreme will be sped up by the faster graphics card. It's not like Windows in that respect. Transparent windows, scrolling, moving windows, Exposé, everything feels smoother on a faster graphics card.

kmarketing · Apr 20, 2006, 11:23 AM

hi,

Thanks so much everyone for your help with the vido cards. In this time, I actually did some research on agp cards and then specifically the 7000 and 8500. Most say that the 8500 is much better. I don't want to spend that much, but if it is going to add a little boost also, I'll go for it.

Thanks for your help on that one!!

Any other suggestions would be great!

kmarketing · Apr 20, 2006, 11:40 AM

Hi,

Just bought the 8500 on ebay for $80 + shipping. Man they kill you with the shipping.

I hope that there will be a definite improvement, and at least with the dvi port I can get my ACD going or sell it and get something else.

I think this machine will be good for us for awhile hopefully:

G4 1.4
1gb Memory
80gb Hard Drive
Radeon 8500 64mb (arriving soon)
USB 2.0 PCI Card
Airport installed
total - under $300.

Hopefully this will be comparable to the mac mini g4 that I was about to get. Is there anything else I should be looking towards?

Is there another way I can handle the sata drive from the g5 besides with that cable that was recommended earlier since some people have reported problems with it. Is there a cheap pci sata controller that I can install to get the sata drive to work?

Thanks again!

kmarketing · Apr 20, 2006, 10:26 PM

Hi,

Okay, another purchase...

I wanted to be able to use the sata drive from my g5 that I recently sold so I have been researching my options:

1. sata to ide interface converter (about $20)
2. pci sata controller card (>$60)
3. external enclosure.

The sad thing is that I didn't know any of this stuff before today after getting the powermac (which I have learned is a sawtooth I think).
Anyway, I went with an external case since I figured it may be the easiest to use, and I will be able to use the 160gb 7200 sata drive on other machines, or even put a bigger hard drive in the case.
Here is what I bought:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817146057

So tack on another $55, and that will bring the total to $350 spent on this machine. I hope you still think its a decent deal. And it is replacing my g5 that I sold for over a thousand more.

Thanks to eveyrone, and if you have any other suggestions, that would be great!!

mduell · Apr 21, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

This not not true. Quartz Extreme will be sped up by the faster graphics card. It's not like Windows in that respect. Transparent windows, scrolling, moving windows, Exposé, everything feels smoother on a faster graphics card.

Please tell me that scrolling and moving windows is not a serious performance challenge for hardware that was new about 5 years ago.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Please tell me that scrolling and moving windows is not a serious performance challenge for hardware that was new about 5 years ago.

Scrolling and moving windows is slick. Redrawing and minimizing is seriously fubared in X though, my X800 barely does it will.

OreoCookie · Apr 21, 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Please tell me that scrolling and moving windows is not a serious performance challenge for hardware that was new about 5 years ago.

Look at Vista's hardware requirements (if you want to use the GUI with all bells and whistles). Things did work, but not nearly as smooth as with a fast graphics card. Plus, on a Mac, I tend to do a lot more multitasking than on Windows (usually I use roughly 8-10 apps simultaneously, on Windows it's less than three), so every bit of cpu horse power which is freed up by moving it to the gpu helps your workflow.

OreoCookie · Apr 21, 2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Scrolling and moving windows is slick. Redrawing and minimizing is seriously fubared in X though, my X800 barely does it will.

It works fine with my MacBook Pro. I have the feeling that this is the machine OS X was waiting for. Smooth scrolling as a feature finally makes sense

kmarketing · Apr 24, 2006, 08:39 PM

Hi,

Just an update to everyone who helped me...

I received the radeon 8500 and hard drive enclosure today. Both work great!! I'm not sure what to look for in terms of the performance between the 8500 and the original rage 128, but it does look like internet pages come up faster at least. And it has 3 outputs which is pretty cool!

The hard drive case s terrific also. I put the sata drive in and it works perfectly, and even boots from that drive. I got the itunes file we needed, now my wife is totally happy.

Saved some money and have a pretty great system as well!!

Thanks again,
Any other suggestions please let me know!