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hmurchison2001 · Jun 26, 2006, 06:32 AM

Eug I'll go one better

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Initially both formats should be a BTO option. Blu-Ray hold more data as they have Single Layer (SL) and DL discs at 25GB and 50GB respectively. Sony is having a HARD time fabricating the DL 50GB discs in quantity but ironically the recordable discs are easier to make because they are already for sale at $50 or so a disc.

HD DVD is a good bridge format that gives us the ability to store 4hour or more of HD content on a DL 30GB disc. This disc and the 15GB SL disc share the same disc structure as a DVD. So close in fact a HD DVD pressing line can press DVD discs as well.

HD DVD has shipped with DL 30GB support from day 1. Because of the backwards compatibility it's not hard to bond the two .6 mm halves together. DVD is exactly the same.

Blu-Ray on the other hand has a laser that sits much closer to the surface of the disc. A .6 mm layer of plastic would cause problems so they created a .1mm top layer and 1.1mm bottom layer. The asymmetrical design of the halves must be causing some problems as well as the need to apply some sort of coating to the thin upper layer for protection.

Here's hoping that Apple has mature iHD (HD DVD interactive layer) and BD-Java (Blu-Rays interactive layer) authoring ready to go by NAB 2007.

HD DVD is only $500 for a set top box and it uses the newer AVC and VC-1 codecs which look great. Sony tried to use MPEG2 and some of their discs look a bit bitstarved. Both formats have the potential for wonderful things.

According to Amir one of the Microsoft digital media guys, they have a new encoder coming out that will be able to encode todays films at the same quality yet avg bitrate will be down to about 12Mbps. Contrast that with today's movies which look great on HD DVD at 16-18Mbs and that's a substantial savings in size.

This is important because on the right equipment you'll be able to store a HD film to a hard drive for a fee so your favorites are always ready to go. Both formats will offer this.

memory-minus · Jun 26, 2006, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I guess I will have to expand on my previous post.

Edit: I stand corrected.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 26, 2006, 08:59 AM

It's a Panasonic model apparently

http://ipodhub.net/articles/20060511bluray_macs.html

CharlesS · Jun 26, 2006, 09:24 AM

Whatever you do, don't ask whether the Mac Pro is going to have Blu-Ray.

surferboy · Jun 26, 2006, 09:26 AM

If there is not an official thread on this question, here it is. I am trying to decide whether or not to save my pennies for August, or if I will have to wait until 2nd generation comes out. WIll the new Mac Pro have Blu-Ray? Will it have HD-DVD? Will it have neither? Is the technology too new to take a risk on? Are there too many unanswered questions in the HD DVD format war for Apple to gamble on one format this early?

I realize there are other threads on HD format, but I would like this thread specifically to speculate on the likelihood of one format or the other being present in the new Mac.....

CharlesS · Jun 26, 2006, 09:26 AM

Eug Wanker · Jun 26, 2006, 09:40 AM

For some reason I'm getting this vision... The signal is very strong...

CatOne · Jun 26, 2006, 09:43 AM

Of course. It's also going to have SHARKS... with LASERS!

SirCastor · Jun 26, 2006, 09:49 AM

I also understand that the MacPro with have Snake on a Plane.

In all seriousness though, I doubt the debut of the Mac Pro is going to have blu-ray. Blu-ray just BARELY hit the market, and it's going to take some time to come down the ladder to computers. Second Gen probably will, but I would be surprised if the first generation Mac Pros had Blu-ray drives.

harrisjamieh · Jun 26, 2006, 09:54 AM

Very doubtful it will have blu-ray. The write speeds of BD is down right crappy at the moment. Perhaps we will be surprised, but at this moment in time, I don't think BD is ready for mainstream.

And no, Macs will not have HD-DVD, as Apple is on the blu-ray side, not the HD-DVD side.

Eug Wanker · Jun 26, 2006, 10:51 AM

I wouldn't at all be surprised if it had Blu-ray, but if it did, it'd be an add-on option... for $$$$.

P.S. harrisjamieh, DVD Studio Pro already supports HD-DVD.

Person Man · Jun 26, 2006, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

And no, Macs will not have HD-DVD, as Apple is on the blu-ray side, not the HD-DVD side.

Actually, Apple is a member of both consortia, and is sitting on the sidelines for now. I think they are going to wait a while.

mduell · Jun 26, 2006, 11:35 AM

Perhaps Apple will also release some decent BluRay authoring tools... the only one available currently, from Sony, only supports MPEG2.

memory-minus · Jun 26, 2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Person Man

Actually, Apple is a member of both consortia, and is sitting on the sidelines for now. I think they are going to wait a while.

Then how come they are on this page:

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_i...009/Index.html

But not this page:

http://www.hddvdprg.com/about/member.html

As far as I've heard, Apple is behind Blu-ray all the way.

surferboy · Jun 26, 2006, 12:30 PM

Decent analysis. Can't say I disagree. But, wasn't the iMac the first machine to provide an affordable consumer level DVD burner to the masses?

I'm looking at Apple to set the trend here....

Tuoder · Jun 26, 2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

Of course. It's also going to have SHARKS... with LASERS!

Ahhh, but will they be blue lasers or red lasers? Only time will tell.

Eug Wanker · Jun 26, 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by memory-minus

As far as I've heard, Apple is behind Blu-ray all the way.

I guess I will have to expand on my previous post.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

DVD Studio Pro already supports HD-DVD.

DVD Studio Pro 4 wiki

In April 2005, Apple updated DVD Studio Pro to support authoring HD content. DVD Studio Pro 4 allows for the burning of HD DVD content to both standard DVD's and HD DVD media (even though no burners are available). For playing back HD DVD content burnt to a standard DVD, Apple requires a PowerPC G5, Apple DVD Player v4.6, and Mac OS X v10.4 or later.

---

From the DVD Studio Pro page at Apple:

DVD Standards
Author traditional DVDs using SD assets
Author HD DVDs using SD and HD assets
Burn discs containing both an SD and an HD project
Output Formats
DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, Double-layer media
Double-layer media support
DLT drive (required for DVD-9 projects)
DDP 2.0 and 2.1
CMF 1.0
Disk Image
Video_TS to hard drive
HVDVD_TS to hard drive

surferboy · Jun 26, 2006, 07:20 PM

My prediction: Apple is late to the video download service. I predict they are just waiting to drop a bomb when all the pieces are in place: Mac Pro with functional and affordable blu-ray and video download service via iTunes with some type of burn to disc allowance like music. The "year of HD" is not over....

jamil5454 · Jun 26, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by surferboy

My prediction: Apple is late to the video download service. I predict they are just waiting to drop a bomb when all the pieces are in place: Mac Pro with functional and affordable blu-ray and video download service via iTunes with some type of burn to disc allowance like music. The "year of HD" is not over....

Wasn't "the year of HD" last year?

surferboy · Jun 27, 2006, 09:50 AM

Details, details....

hmurchison2001 · Jun 27, 2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by surferboy

My prediction: Apple is late to the video download service. I predict they are just waiting to drop a bomb when all the pieces are in place: Mac Pro with functional and affordable blu-ray and video download service via iTunes with some type of burn to disc allowance like music. The "year of HD" is not over....

Well it's the pieces that are the problem

1. A Blu-Ray recorder is $1000
2. You still need a HDCP graphics card
3. You need an authoring environment or you'd be just storing moves as datafiles
4. What about the whole control layer? Menus, subtitles additional soundtracks. How do you encapsulate that into a form that consumers will purchase?

Downloadable movies won't take off until they can offer the access and full functionality of what we have now in DVD and HD DVD/Blu-Ray.

angelmb · Jun 27, 2006, 12:21 PM

http://modern-day-betamax-suckers.com/

surferboy · Jun 27, 2006, 01:11 PM

OK, this discussion is no longer any fun.

hmurchison2001 · Jun 27, 2006, 01:20 PM

Reality bites.

We have a lot of work to do before downloads and Blue Laser recorders become the norm.

McDave · Jun 27, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by hmurchison2001

Reality bites.

We have a lot of work to do before downloads and Blue Laser recorders become the norm.

Sounds like BD needs an enabling application. CD Audio & DVD Video were both commercial application failures until CD/DVD Data enabled them (by bringing the drive cost down).

Maybe the answer isn't a computer that records and plays BD but a BD Player/Recorder that's also a computer (if you buy the optional KB & mouse)

I'm gutted Sony et al didn't jump on BD-R/BD-RE sooner for Data, I understand the writers have been around for a while and as Data is the traditional enabler this is just stupid.

McD

Darksider · Jun 27, 2006, 07:36 PM

I think Apple should work on improving their superdrives first.

MaxPower2k3 · Jul 3, 2006, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I guess I will have to expand on my previous post.

DVD Studio Pro 4 wiki
....

I think I might've posted this before, but here's the options DVDSP gives you. What I don't know is if HD DVDs (HD content on standard DVDs) made by DVDSP will play on HD-DVD players, or if they're proprietary to DVD Player.app. I know that the Toshiba HD-DVD player will indeed play HD content from standard DVDs, but i've only heard of people trying discs made with some PC authoring program, not DVDSP.

No mention of Blu-Ray by name or capacity...