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brokenjago · Jul 15, 2006, 08:26 PM

Hi!

Long time reader, semi-long time poster.

I've probably acquired the capital I need to completely make the switch over to Macs. I'm planning on buying a MacBook and an iMac. Obviously, the MacBook isn't going to be updted for quite a while, so it's good to go. However, the iMac has gone quite a while without an update (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com.) Seeing as that the Core 2 Duo is just around the corner, do you think it would be wise to wait until the WWDC keynote announcement? A 20-30% performance boost for free (power consumption wise and financially) would certainly be nice, plus whatever otber sexy stuff that generally comes with a new revision.

I'm leaning towards waiting, as WWDC is only three weeks away now. I'm even considering waiting until the end of August, just to make sure. What do you guys think?

mduell · Jul 15, 2006, 09:12 PM

If the iMac waits for Merom (mobile Core 2 Duo, released late August), which I think it will, the iMac update could easily be in September. Annoucing the update at WWDC is possible, but shipping would be delayed until at least late August.

brokenjago · 02:25 AM

Why would the iMac get a mobile chip? It's more expensive, and it's not as fast. I'm not seeing the sense here.

I always thought the reason the iMac got the Core Duo was because it was a chip pretty much aimed at mobile computers. If they're coming out with a desktop variant that's less money, why would Apple pay more for less, so to speak? I don't imagine TDP is a huge concern for the iMac.

Anyone has thoughts on this?

harrisjamieh · Jul 16, 2006, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I don't imagine TDP is a huge concern for the iMac.

In that tiny enclosure? Right......

brokenjago · 05:47 AM

I imagine it's a concern, but not nearly as huge of one since, unlike the MacBooks and their pro counterparts, the enclosure they're cased in isn't less and one inch thin. (Which it isn't, by a longshot, just in case you didn't notice.)

Also, the TDP of a Conroe chip at 2.67 Ghz is 65 Watts, while the Maximum TDP for Yonah is 49 Watts. I don't that jump is going to make iMacs start bursting into flames anytime soon. (I'm not completely sure which Yonah chip the imac is using, so I'm not sure of it's specific TDP.) Even if it were to go from, say, 31 to 45 Watts (for the 2.13 Ghz Conroe,) is would still be a realtively neglible boost.

Now it would be nice if I could get some real feedback instead of people being sarcastic towards me because I'm suggesting it's possible the iMac could get a nice update in the near future (mduell doesn't count cause he actually gave his opinion as opposed to mocking me.)

memory-minus · Jul 16, 2006, 05:48 AM

I bought one (and received it yesterday) because my opinion is that they won't update it before the end of the education buying season (October-ish). I decided the possibility of it getting a speed bump then was not worth waiting for.

Depending on what you believe about MacRumor's Buyer's Guide, which I do use from time to time, their average days between updates numbers are deceiving. They counted the 3 month difference between the release of the iMac (G5 iSight) and iMac (Intel Core Duo) as a "revision," bringing down the average. I consider it a new model with no real history data. They counted the speed adjustment of the MacBook Pro and release of the 17" model 3 months ago as a revision. But they did not count the release of the educational iMac last week as a revision. I consider their data "for entertainment purposes only."

Plus, unlike the MacBook and MacBook Pro, this iMac model has proven to be rock solid in most cases and I agree. No excessive heat, no strange noises, screen is perfect, etc. Regardless of when it's updated I won't care because I am totally in love with this thing. My MacBook Pro has had the usual litany of heat and noise problems which I will have it sent in for eventually.

Anyway, the correct answer is: No one has any idea when the iMac will be updated or what specs it will contain.

My final advice: if you need it, buy it!

brokenjago · Jul 16, 2006, 05:54 AM

That's the thing: I don't need it.

Just to be safe, I think 'll wait until a little after WWDC, if nothing shows up, then meh, whatever. If something does, then great! I get a new iMac.

Anyone have any speculation as to what else they might add other than Conroe/Merom?

mduell · Jul 16, 2006, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Why would the iMac get a mobile chip? It's more expensive, and it's not as fast. I'm not seeing the sense here.

I always thought the reason the iMac got the Core Duo was because it was a chip pretty much aimed at mobile computers. If they're coming out with a desktop variant that's less money, why would Apple pay more for less, so to speak? I don't imagine TDP is a huge concern for the iMac.

Anyone has thoughts on this?

TDP for all dual core Yonah chips is 31W, while TDP for all dual core Conroe chips (according to the leaked sheets) is 65W; the highest TDP for any of the G5s inside the iMac was about 40-45W, and IIRC people complained about the increased noise for those.

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I imagine it's a concern, but not nearly as huge of one since, unlike the MacBooks and their pro counterparts, the enclosure they're cased in isn't less and one inch thin. (Which it isn't, by a longshot, just in case you didn't notice.)

Also, the TDP of a Conroe chip at 2.67 Ghz is 65 Watts, while the Maximum TDP for Yonah is 49 Watts. I don't that jump is going to make iMacs start bursting into flames anytime soon. (I'm not completely sure which Yonah chip the imac is using, so I'm not sure of it's specific TDP.) Even if it were to go from, say, 31 to 45 Watts (for the 2.13 Ghz Conroe,) is would still be a realtively neglible boost.

Now it would be nice if I could get some real feedback instead of people being sarcastic towards me because I'm suggesting it's possible the iMac could get a nice update in the near future (mduell doesn't count cause he actually gave his opinion as opposed to mocking me.)

Where are you getting those TDP figures?

brokenjago · Jul 16, 2006, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by http://www.dvhardware.net/article7584.html

The thermal design power (or maximal power consumption levels) of the "T" class Yonah processors which are aimed at business notebooks will be between 25W and 49W. Currently single-core Pentium Ms top out at 27W. For gamers there's also a "E" class with a thermal design power (TDP) of 50W.

And as for the TDP of the 2.13 Ghz Conroe, I seem to be sadly mistaken. I could have sworn I'd seen something about that somewhere.

Oh well. The jump from 49 to 65 is still not that incredibly high.

mduell · Jul 16, 2006, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

And as for the TDP of the 2.13 Ghz Conroe, I seem to be sadly mistaken. I could have sworn I'd seen something about that somewhere.

Oh well. The jump from 49 to 65 is still not that incredibly high.

That's for Yonah, not Conroe, and Intel says its 31W @ 2.16Ghz.

Eriamjh · Jul 17, 2006, 05:25 PM

If you can wait, wait. If you want now, remember that the iMac is upgradeable (unofficially).

Pierre B. · Jul 18, 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

In that tiny enclosure? Right......

Exactly. Only if they change form factor and/or some internals (e.g. take out the PSU) a Conroe iMac could become reality.

hickey · Jul 18, 2006, 03:48 PM

wait till september, then buy whatever's out.

kmkkid · Jul 18, 2006, 04:28 PM

I say go for it now. The current imac is perfect, and has been the most trouble free of all Macs to date (so I hear from veterans). Mine is flawless. You never know what the next revision might bring in regards to bugs/faulty components etc. Plus there isn't much of a speedbump to be had even with the newer intel chips, so what more can they add? Slightly better graphics? Blu-ray to drive the price up a few hundred? built in tv tuner? All of which can be had cheaper than apples offering with addons to the current iMac anyways

Your choice, but I'm happy I bought mine instead of waiting.

brokenjago · Jul 19, 2006, 05:45 AM

20-30% performance boost for nothing is not something to sniffle at...

I suppose I'll wait till WWDC to see if anything amazing comes out. If not, the iMac Core Duo it is.

iRussel · Jul 19, 2006, 06:48 AM

I agree with kmkkid.

I have had my Intel iMac for two months now and its absolutely fantastic. Wait if you want a faster machine, buy now if you want a great machine that screams.

zerock · Jul 19, 2006, 07:15 AM

i'm planning on getting a new desktop (with intel). so i will probably wait for WWDC just so i dont have to kick myself in the face later.

brokenjago · Jul 19, 2006, 06:20 PM

Well, Apple said they're very confident about products in the pipeline during their earnings conference call today.

Here's hoping to some surprises at WWDC!

brokenjago · Jul 21, 2006, 09:45 PM

So other than Conroe, what do you guys think about various other upgrade possibilities? Personally, I think the following:

BTO option for 750GB HDD.
Possibly some sort of DVR device built-in.
Front Row 2.0 if DVR is included.
Possible introduction of 23" or 24" iMac (now that I'd buy!).
16x DL Superdrive.
Small speed boost to 1.86 and 2.16. (17" and 20" respectively.)

Dillon-K · Jul 23, 2006, 12:51 AM

To be honest, while I like having speed, 1.83/2.0 ghz is plenty. if you're wanting an iMac, I would buy now. If you wait for a new configuration (or dare I say, new design) you will indefinitely get hardware bugs like people are experiencing the MB/P's... Personally, I think getting a refurb 1.83 17" iMac for $1099 is a steal......

Dear Santa,
I've been a real good boy this year... sorta... anyway, I want an iMac. kthx.
Love,
Dillon

EDIT: when I say "steal" I'm talking in Apple terms, not PC terms.

Dark_Lotus · Jul 23, 2006, 01:13 AM

Im waiting until after WWDC to buy my new Mac. Why not wait? Its only 15 days 10 hours and 46 minutes... Cant wait

brokenjago · Jul 23, 2006, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

If you wait for a new configuration (or dare I say, new design) you will indefinitely get hardware bugs like people are experiencing the MB/P's...

I'm not a believer in the "OMG FIRST REV RUN AWAY" theory. I don't mind buying a rev A of anything. Apple provides a 1 year warranty on all their computers, so if anything goes wrong, I'll get it repaired or get a brand new one. I have no problem with that. Besides, I want this computer to last me a good 5 years. 20-30% performance boost will certainly go a ways to helping that.

Chinasaur · Jul 23, 2006, 11:19 AM

FWIW, I agree on the recommendation for Intel iMac now.

I had a Rev B G5 and it was much noisier than my CoreDuo 2Ghz iMac. Apple improved from one rev to another. AND, this CoreDuo smokes the previous G5 lineup. It really is much faster. I purchased mine from the Apple Refurb section and it's flawless. This is the 3rd iMac I've purchased from Apple Refurb and all have been 100%. You can't upgrade the machine but it's a value if the configuration works for you.

Buy now. I bet the only thing that happens to iMac's is a speed bump.

mduell · Jul 23, 2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Possibly some sort of DVR device built-in.

The TV market is too much of a mess right now. Picking the right combination of analog cable, digital cable (with encryption), NTSC HD, ATSC HD, OTA HD, and CableCard, while maintaining a reasonable price is just too much of a boondoggle.

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Possible introduction of 23" or 24" iMac (now that I'd buy!).

Definately possible. Before we had the iMac DV/SE, now we can have the iMac HD.

Originally Posted by brokenjago

16x DL Superdrive.

Not going to happen with a slot-loading or slim drive; IOW would require a significant redesign, and go against the (annoying) slot-loading trend Apple likes.

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Small speed boost to 1.86 and 2.16. (17" and 20" respectively.)

Or even 2.33.

imitchellg5 · Jul 23, 2006, 03:11 PM

I would just get an iMac now, they are great computers. Anytime I buy something from Apple I buy knowing that in a few months, Apple will just upgrade it.

brokenjago · 11:15 AM

You have a point. However, when it's obvious that Apple is coming increasingly close to an update to the iMac line, I'd prefer to wait until they come out to see if it's anything earth shattering. Just in case!

Jasoco · Jul 23, 2006, 07:51 PM

Ditto. It's been so long since the last update it's pretty much guaranteed they'll be updating them soon. Like very soon. IMHO, the best time to buy is right after an update. It's the longest time before the next update and the least feeling that you bought too early.

imitchellg5 · Jul 23, 2006, 08:00 PM

True. I got my iMac G5 the day they came out, and the same with my PowerBook G4.

harrisjamieh · Jul 24, 2006, 02:51 AM

I personally think an iMac upgrade is imminent. 7 months is a long time to go without an upgrade. I have a feeling that it will be subtly announced at WWDC - they won't make a huge fanfare over it, but stevie will just go over the specs in about 5 minutes. Thats IMO, anyway.

kmkkid · Jul 24, 2006, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

You have a point. However, when it's obvious that Apple is coming incresingly close to an update to the iMac line, I'd prefer to wait until they come out to see if it's anything earth shattering. Just in case!

I fail to see the point of this thread if you had already made up your mind?

brokenjago · Jul 24, 2006, 11:18 AM

I hadn't when I'd started it, but now I have. Besides, it's always good to hear feedback even after I've made up my mind.

hdsalinas · Jul 24, 2006, 05:16 PM

I am in the same boat.

I want to get an imac 20" but I want to wait for the release of the new OS.

I am not sure if apple would change the imac dramatically. they might just add more hdd space, ram or something like that but I dont see them making a huge cosmetic change.

And most important, what has influenced the most on my decision to wait, is simply because I dont have enough ca$h.

tylerlg · Jul 24, 2006, 05:44 PM

Im confident that Steve is going to give us an updated version. But not a completely new version: if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Im waiting a few weeks before i pick mine up , so i'll be sure to get the updated version.

Hm , a higher level video card would always be nice , or atleast an option to replace it.

imitchellg5 · Jul 24, 2006, 05:54 PM

It will just probably be a tiny speed bump.

Dillon-K · Jul 24, 2006, 08:20 PM

I would love to see a Conroe or Merom iMac (most likely Merom - Apple wants to keep the noise down, you know?)... I don't want Apple to change the design or anything other than the CPU... really, as I said earlier in this thread, this iMac design is almost flawless--and frankly--I love it. It's almost as sexy as the BlacBook

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