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I WAS the One · Sep 8, 2006, 06:53 PM

Ok, When I bought the MDD 867Mhz the day it came out, I was looking for the high end tower for business, and then my savings were tight and I finished buying the low end tower, but as I remember the sales person told me, that a pro Mac like the MDD was upgradable and it was just a thing of buying what I need when the time's right. ok, time past by... and I needed more storage for graphics and audio, and I bought 4 HDs of 250 each (it was 2003 and those were really expensive at that time) then I add a graphic card too a 64mb one, (also expensive) then I installed one CD+R+RW 52x on the second slot and just for about a year I was happy, then everything was slowing down... somebody said max the RAM and here I was... I went to macsales.com and bought 2 gigs of RAM, and it worked for a couple of months, when Tiger arrived (as in today) I need processor speed, and there's no place to find a processor upgrade for a MDD!!! I'm stuck. it was a Mac for Pros and it was build for last. today 2006 I need a new Mac and I think that the same it will happen with the Mac Pro, don't you think?

CharlesS · Sep 8, 2006, 07:03 PM

Lateralus · Sep 8, 2006, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

I need processor speed, and there's no place to find a processor upgrade for a MDD!!!

Yes there is...

Oversoul · Sep 8, 2006, 07:15 PM

Similar story with my a Gossamer G3 minitower I had years back. I eventually upgraded the processor, RAM, HDD, video card, added USB and Firewire, and after all that I realized I probably could have bought a new desktop that included features that I could not get by upgrading.

At least two lessons learned: (1) Slowly upgrading component by component is easier on the wallet over time than taking a big hit on a new machine, but ultimately you'll be spending more trying to keep your old machine "up-to-date" than if you bought a new one every 2-3 years; (2) No matter how much you try to keep your old machine up-to-date, you likely won't be able to match the offerings from new machines.

Desktop Macs are expandable/upgradeable, and some models moreso than others. But I think to derive the most out of that expandability, you need to upgrade when new or in the near future. To be sure, that's when upgrade prices are still pricey. But after say 2 years, what's the point in trying to keep up?

Of course, if you don't care about having the latest and greatest, and you won't be trying to upgrade the entire system component by component, the desktop's expandability is great and will probably prolong your computer's life by a few years.

mduell · Sep 8, 2006, 09:59 PM

4 year old bottom-of-the-line desktop can't keep up with the latest software...

CharlesS · Sep 8, 2006, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

4 year old bottom-of-the-line desktop can't keep up with the latest software...

Bottom of the line? Hardly. The Power Mac line was never cheap, although it wasn't as bad as the Mac Pro is.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2006, 03:11 AM

Whether you're buying a PowerMac or a PC, in both cases Moore's law holds, i. e. the cpu speed doubles once every 18 months. Thus, a new computer is considerably faster than your old four-year old machine. Up until the G5s, Apple machines were (in practice at least) easier to upgrade than comparable pcs of that time. Costs for one-time upgrades should be compared to the costs of a new computer (make sure to include the value of your used Mac).

However, if you upgrade over a period of time, it still might be very useful. If you run out of hd space, you need to install a new harddrive, etc. IMHO every 3 to 4 years, a new machine is necessary.

CharlesS · Sep 9, 2006, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Up until the G5s, Apple machines were (in practice at least) easier to upgrade than comparable pcs of that time.

I don't see how you can say that when all the affordable machines have been completely closed boxes since the original iMac came out.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2006, 04:36 AM

I thought we were talking about PowerMacs -- and a while ago, there were more affordable models. I think some people have the mistaken impression that with Macs, Moore's law doesn't hold, it does. The same goes for PC and unix workstations as well: a high price tag won't protect you from the passage of time and advances in computing technology, they too become old and `slow'

SirCastor · Sep 9, 2006, 06:07 AM

I'm running a 6 year old Sawtooth. I just upgraded the Processor and I'm flying. I'm not even maxed out. Granted, I'm not much video work or Graphic Design, or number crunching.

I've effectively put off a new machine for at least a year or two. That's my plan anyway. The only thing I regret about it is that there are some things that this machine just isn't going to do:
- It's got a 2x AGP slot, so it's graphics power isn't going very much further (not to mention a low-watt Power Supply)
- It's got a 100Mhz system bus, so the processor can only take it so far.
- It's built on a PPC architecture, it won't dual boot with Windows (or natively run x86 stuff)

The cost of owning a computer. Macs last longer than PCs, but not forever.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2006, 08:30 AM

@SirCastor
How much money have you spent on upgrades?
(I think that might be useful for other people to decide whether to upgrade or get a new Mac …)

mduell · Sep 9, 2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Bottom of the line? Hardly. The Power Mac line was never cheap, although it wasn't as bad as the Mac Pro is.

32MB GeForce 4 MX, 133 MHz FSB, PC2100 DDR SDRAM, and a Combo drive in late 2002/early 2003? That's low-end no matter how it's priced.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Whether you're buying a PowerMac or a PC, in both cases Moore's law holds, i. e. the cpu speed doubles once every 18 months.

C'mon Oreo, you should know that is not Moore's Law and that hasn't been true for decades.

OreoCookie · Sep 9, 2006, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

32MB GeForce 4 MX, 133 MHz FSB, PC2100 DDR SDRAM, and a Combo drive in late 2002/early 2003? That's low-end no matter how it's priced.

That actually was what I was saying: back then, the PowerMac G4s were `lower end' than either the G5s or the Mac Pros.

Originally Posted by mduell

C'mon Oreo, you should know that is not Moore's Law and that hasn't been true for decades.

Huh? Perhaps we are talking about different things.
Moore's law states that chip complexity (which can be roughly equated to processing power) doubles every 18-24 months and it holds at least for the last 30 years. We don't know how long it will hold in the future (as the structures are getting smaller and smaller), but it certainly holds for the last six, seven years.

SirCastor · Sep 9, 2006, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

@SirCastor
How much money have you spent on upgrades?
(I think that might be useful for other people to decide whether to upgrade or get a new Mac …)

Gosh, I'm not exactly sure, but I'll do my best:

My Video card I bought from an OEM dealer and flashed it: $150
512MB RAM + 2x 256MB + 128MB = ~ $150 (I bought the 512 stick when 133mhz ram was cheap.)
1.5ghz processor upgrade: $157 (including shipping)
Hard Drive (this was a gift, but here's the cost.): $80
DVD-burner: $40

So that's ~ $575, maybe give or take a bit. $600 over the course of six years (not including OS's), I feel pretty comfortable with it. I was dying (or so I whined) until I got the new processor. That made quite a bit of difference. My work and play is not at the extreme end though. I'm a web developer (which requires a machine with little power) and I only play a few games. I haven't bought a USB 2 card for my mac though. Tac on another$10 for that.

I think the cost of owning a relatively-functional-today computer over the course of 6 years at the cost of $100 a year is pretty good.
In the defense of buying a new machine, I will state this: The Sawtooth is, IMO, the most upgradeable/expandable Mac Apple has ever made. By this I mean not only standardized parts,but also in terms of life-span of upgrades.

I WAS the One · Sep 9, 2006, 01:48 PM

I will need $800 dollars to put my MDD faster, and for a little more I can buy a MDD Mac OS 9 bootable at the same price of that processor upgrade alone! so I rather buy a used MDD re-install everything from the old one and extend the MDD life for a year more... so it will be like throwing to the trash almost a grand! I think I'll spend $2,200 dollars on a max out iMac 24" and use it until it fried and then buy the next Mac Apple introduce if I need another upgrade. It's that the game I need to play, then I will play it like that. I'm tired. as I said before, I've been using a Mac since the Performa 6300CD, and upgrading every machine since then. At first (and I mean the '90s) it was worth it, but today and iMac and a Mac Pro aren't that different. the Mac Pro has more RAM and more processors but for people like me that owned an old Mac any Mac will be fast enough to satisfy our needs. I know a guy who work with me that need to burn a DVD in 20 minutes for high dead line productions needs and he bought a PowerMac G5 Quad, and he was happy with the speed but today he told me that the Mac Pro it's a monster compared to his G5 Quad, and he doesn't know who will need that amount of power, maybe someone who need to work on a 3D animations studio or something more bigger than that. I mean for people who do freelance work at their home, I think an iMac fill their needs, but for a high graphic corporate monster a Mac Pro it's the better deal. It doesn't matter if you buy a Mac Pro today, in three years I can guaranteed that the Mac Pro of today will be a Mac Turtle Slow and you will need to choose of buying upgrade parts or a brand new super Mac Pro again! (I hope it will be a 16 processors at the same time Mac, 2 Processors of 8 cores with the same size of todays Dual 2 Core! LOL) sorry about that just dreaming... anyway, for a really Big flat monitor and a super fast computer with all you need I think the iMac 24" is a winner. Upgrades are useless today. it's a fact. Just buy a new computer and your done.