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Stoopid · Oct 5, 2006, 09:57 PM

I'm technical support for my parents and their computer problems, which is why I made them do "the switch" 5 months ago. This evening my mom had a problem that has me really stumped, and quite frankly a little guilty for recommending the mac in the first place. ("oh you won't have the weird problems your windows machine had," I often said)

Here's what's going on:

In the middle of using Mail, the program froze and my mom got the spinning beachball. She doesn't know cmd-alt-esc, so she simply rebooted by hitting the power button. When the computer came back up she got the flashing question mark.

We've tried removing all USB items, option-booting, resetting pram (do you know how hard it is to describe that maneuver over the phone to a 63 year old computerphobe?), and finally booting off the CD to the install disc.

Once booted up to the CD, we tried to select a start up disc, but only the CD and "network drive" were selectable. The internal 160gb hard drive wasn't an option. It's like the hard drive isn't even connected.

My questions to anyone out there is:

-Is this common? Has anyone else had this happen to this generation computer?
-How could a failure like this happen when the computer doesn't physically move or get jostled?
-Is this related to the 10.4.8 updates? (I know I had to reboot my g4 imac a few times before that update "took" this afternoon... I got 2 grey screens for a while before the machine started working)
-Is there any way of rescuing the data? (I was thinking maybe putting the disk in an extra firewire enclosure I've got)

Of course, I tried apple, but their tech support line closed a while ago. I guess I'll be on hold while at work tomorrow

Thanks for reading my post/vent

brokenjago · Oct 5, 2006, 10:36 PM

1) Never seen it before.

2) A short? Bad Logic Board?

3) 10.4.8 Automatically restarts most computers twice. Says so on Apple tech note. May or may not have been caused by this.

4) Try the extra Firewire enclosure, see if the computer detects it as a boot drive. If so, probably a bad logic board.

chipchen · Oct 6, 2006, 12:03 AM

Boot to the install disk and select Disk Utility. In there you should see the hard drive on the left. If you don't, hard drive or logic board is dead.

But... Sounds like when she rebooted and corrupted the operating system. So you'll have to re-install. If you see the drive in disk utility, quit, then proceed to install the OS. When you choose the hard drive icon, click "options" underneath and choose "archive and install." This will retain her data while putting on a new copy of the operating system.

Stoopid · Oct 6, 2006, 12:16 AM

Thanks for your advice, both of you.
From what I've gathered from our phone conversations, there's no hard drive icon available in the disk utility menu. We tried to go a few steps into the OS install (boy it's good to know about that "archive" option) but had no where to install it. The hard drive isn't an option.

This is so weird. I guess I'll visit my parents next weekend and look at the machine in person. I'll let you know what I discover, or what Apple says afterwards.

Thanks again!

brokenjago · Oct 6, 2006, 01:07 AM

Yeah, looks like a dead HDD or Logic Board.

Stoopid · Oct 6, 2006, 08:52 AM

So I got off the phone with Apple phone support. The guy basically said because I didn't have apple care and the computer is more than 90 days old, he couldn't troubleshoot the problem with me.

I know, I know. "Always get applecare with Laptops or imacs," but I didn't buy it at the time of computer purchase because I didn't want to spring for it and I knew I had a year to get it. I figured I'd wait until day 364 or the first major problem to get it. Well the latter came first, I suppose.

Anyways, the repair will definitely be covered by the 1 year warranty, so I guess I'll be dragging the thing to the Apple Store near my parents' place.

One thing I did ask about is if I were to take out the hard drive myself to run some tests and try to get my data would I be voiding the warranty. The answer: yes, that would void it.

So do I bring it in as-is, or do I try the hard-drive extraction reeeeeeeeeally carefully first. Decisions, decisions.

It would be cool if there were some sort of "Certified User" ranking where you can do different things without voiding the warranty based on your ability. I should be allowed to do things up to replacing the hard drive. Some other people on this board should be able to rip out the logic boards. And some people... well they're not allowed to right-click without voiding the warranty.

This could apply to all areas of life.

chipchen · Oct 6, 2006, 02:29 PM

Well... I'm Apple Certified for Desktop and Notebook repairs... but i'd still be voiding the warranty technically by opening it up outside of an "Apple Authorized Service Provider."

The first iMac G5 was COMPLETELY customer serviceable. EVERYTHING was to be replaced by the customer, even the logic boards. Well, everything was modular, and the logic board sat on a huge piece called the midplane, which kept the customer from directly having to touch the logic board.

Anyway, about 6-7 months into that, they stopped all of that and brought everything back to AASP servicing only. You can only imagine how many parts they got back destroyed.. or how many imacs were messed up.

At this point, hope that the logic board is the problem because that way, they're data is still intact.

Stoopid · Oct 12, 2006, 03:37 PM

A little update on this problem... So the other day I brought the machine to the Apple Store on 5th Ave. My "Genius" was able to start the computer up on a firewire drive and with the utility on that she could "see" the hard drive, but couldn't do anything to it, including mounting it to the desktop. We also noticed something my mom had told me over the phone but I kind of discounted which was a soft clicking noise upon bootup. Something is definitely not right in the seagate hard drive. The genius said that because the drive is so screwed up even a data recovery might not work, so I decided to save the $54 on that. They will be replacing the drive and I hope I'll be picking it up early next week.

Tuoder · Oct 12, 2006, 05:19 PM

That sux. That happened to a 160GB Western Digital that I owned. I returned it, and they sent me a recertified 160GB drive that was DOA. Not doing business with them anymore.

::maroma:: · Oct 12, 2006, 05:28 PM

Yeah I've had hard drives die like that on me too. It sucks, but its part of using technology these days.

If the data wasn't backed up, and is really important to recover, there are other services out there that can recover data from nearly any dead drive. But it will cost you.

Lesson of the day: Always preface your Mac praises (when comparing it to the PC) with the words "In the majority of cases.." or something like that. I've been in that position before where I've touted the Mac so much that when the person decided to go ahead and buy it, they ran into a rare problem and I ended up with my foot in my mouth.

Chinasaur · Oct 15, 2006, 02:35 PM

Also, introduce your parents to Onyx, nd show them how to do the Automated cleanup. And remind them to use it once a month.

Onyx wouldn't have prevented this problem, but it will prevent many others. Since you are their tech support and live a ways away (I'm in the same boat with my Da), it behooves you to be as proactive as possible.

Luck!