[ranran]

I'm attempting to resurrect a dual 550mhz G4 Sawtooth with Gigabit ethernet port.

I've come across a decent deal (~$34) for a 64MB Apple G4 MAC GEFORCE4 AGP8X VGA/ADC card. The card is listed as 4x/8x compatible.

Am I correct that the Gigabit Sawtooth only has a 2x AGP motherboard?

If so, will this card even work in the computer?

I know there's another thread sort of asking this question: http://forums.macnn.com/65/power-mac...force4mx-work/

but that one is only for a 1st generation (non-gigabit) sawtooth, if I'm not mistaken...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Ran

[imitchellg5]

No. Sawtooths ( or is it Sawteeth ) have a 4x AGP motherboard.

[Lateralus]

Hmm...

Apple never shipped an 8x GeForce 4. The last machine to ship with the GeForce 4 as an option was the MDD G4, and it was 4x. So either the card you're looking at isn't a Mac card at all or it's a flashed over PC card.

Regardless, it should work with a 2x AGP slot since I've never known the GeForce 4 to have had any problems with backwards compatibility on either the PC or Mac side of the river. Unless the card is an AGP 8x/Pro slot. But I don't recall seeing any Pro 4 MX cards.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

No. Sawtooths ( or is it Sawteeth ) have a 4x AGP motherboard.

No... They have 2x AGP slot.

[BigBadBiologist]

You have to look and see how the AGP connector is keyed. I'll try to find a link with some pics, but if it is universally keyed (two slots on the AGP connector), it probably will work.

[ranran]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

The Apple Part # for the card is: 603-0850
GEFORCE4 AGP8X VGA DVI 64MB Apple G4 MAC

Also, the MB in my Sawtooth is made in 2000 with model #: 820-1153-A

The AGP slot is one big slot, but looks to have a separator in it.
Furthermore, the ADB power connector is situated right in front of the AGP slot.

What do y'all think?

[reader50]

I assume you mean ADC power connector? The ADB ports did not appear on any G4 models. And they didn't come with power connectors.

Your model is most likely a Gigabit Ethernet model, not a Sawtooth. You can see the different models and intro dates here. The Gigabit Ethernet specs page shows an AGP 2x slot, so you will probably have to tape a couple pins for the 4x/8x card to work.

If the card's ADC power stub conflicts with your motherboard (no power slot in the right place, something else instead) then things get complicated. You might have to cut off the board's power stub to make it fit. And the card still might not work in a 2x slot. Best bet is for someone to chime in who has already tried something like this.

If the power stub doesn't align with the ADC power port on the motherboard, then the ADC port will be unpowered. You could adapt it to VGA or DVI.

[ranran]

Originally Posted by reader50 

I assume you mean ADC power connector? The ADB ports did not appear on any G4 models. And they didn't come with power connectors.

Whoops - yes I meant the "extra" ADC power connector just in front of the AGP slot (only ~1-2mm away - almost touching)

Your model is most likely a Gigabit Ethernet model, not a Sawtooth.

Oh. I thought the Gigabit *was* a "Sawtooth" model. When I plugged in the serial #, This is where I got sent to...

That, apparently is the same site you just gave me. When I borrowed a video card from an older G4 400mhz machine at work just to see if it would boot, it showed as a dual 550mhz gigabit machine.

<snip>...shows an AGP 2x slot, so you will probably have to tape a couple pins for the 4x/8x card to work.

If the card's ADC power stub conflicts with your motherboard (no power slot in the right place, something else instead) then things get complicated. You might have to cut off the board's power stub to make it fit. And the card still might not work in a 2x slot. Best bet is for someone to chime in who has already tried something like this.

If the power stub doesn't align with the ADC power port on the motherboard, then the ADC port will be unpowered. You could adapt it to VGA or DVI.

eek. I certainly don't want to go "cutting" the card. Worse come to worse, I'll get an old ATI Rage 128 16mb AGP card for this thing......but I was hoping to inexpensively find something better......

[BigBadBiologist]

There's a good picture here showing the three different types of AGP connectors:
AGP Compatibility For Sticklers

[ranran]

Originally Posted by BigBadBiologist 

There's a good picture here showing the three different types of AGP connectors:
AGP Compatibility For Sticklers

Thanks for the link - that was *very* informative!

A pic of my motherboard is shown here: 820-1153-A

From your link, I gather this has a 3.3v Pro slot

The card has two slots, so it is keyed for either a 3.3v or 1.5v AGP slot.
However, it also has a tab further towards the bracket. It sort of looks like these:

Ebay pic #1
and, Ebay pic #2

You'll notice that in the first pic, there are 3 leads on that separate tab, whereas on the second pic, it's just one big lead - I don't know what that means, and I can't tell whether the card I was looking at has one or the other setup..but what is that tab for and does the fact that this MB in my G4 doesn't have a "slot" for it matter?

Ran

[BigBadBiologist]

Sawtooth systems have a 3.3V AGP 2x slot. (not pro)

The tab on the cards you linked is for the ADC. It isn't necessary for this tab to be plugged in to anything for the card to work (as long as you don't need ADC), but I'm not sure if it will interfere with the card physically fitting into the mobo.

[ranran]

Originally Posted by BigBadBiologist 

Sawtooth systems have a 3.3V AGP 2x slot. (not pro)

The tab on the cards you linked is for the ADC. It isn't necessary for this tab to be plugged in to anything for the card to work (as long as you don't need ADC), but I'm not sure if it will interfere with the card physically fitting into the mobo.

OK, After further reading and thinking and reading, I think I've got it figured out.

My motherboard *does* have the AGP pro slot (extra power connector right next to the AGP slot b'n the slot and the bracket) just like the Ebay picture in my previous post, yet it is stll referred to as a "Sawtooth"... ??? It does *not* have the extra "farther away" slot for ADC power.

The card I'm looking at is keyed for 1.5v or 3.3v, no Pro connection, but with the extra ADC tab.

It will physically plug into the AGP port as that is 3.3v keyed.

The remaining question, I think, is whether the card, listed as an Apple-sourced 4x/8x card, will work in this 2X Pro slot.

The reading links you (BigBadBiologist) gave me suggest the following:

1. All AGP cards, as long as they follow the correct specifications, are backwards compatible if they are physically keyed to fit into the motherboard.

2. Hence, an 8x/4x card *should* work in a 3.3v slot at 2x speeds.

Does this seem reasonable? I'm looking at $30 shipped for this, which seems like a good deal to me, and is why I'm tempted to bite......

Again, thanks for your time!

Ran

[BigBadBiologist]

The motherboard link you provided does not have an AGP pro slot. That is a standard 2x AGP slot.

Most of the time, if the card is keyed correctly, it will work. There were some issues with 8x cards working in the Apple 4x AGP slots (because Apple decided to use some of the unused pins in the 4x AGP slots which wound up being used in AGP 8x), but there generally aren't issues with AGP 2x slots.

[ranran]

Originally Posted by BigBadBiologist 

The motherboard link you provided does not have an AGP pro slot. That is a standard 2x AGP slot.

*sigh*...and I *thought* I had figured things out...

Well, if it's not an AGP Pro slot, then what is that small 3-pin black "extra" slot right next to the brown AGP slot?

That can't be ADC - it's too close to the AGP slot, isn't it?

[BigBadBiologist]

yeah, that's one of the older ADC things. I think they moved it to a little further back on the next models. Yeah, it sucks. I don't know why they did that.