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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > So, are we expecting new Mac Pros at MWSF or no?

So, are we expecting new Mac Pros at MWSF or no?
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Mac Elite
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Dec 25, 2006, 08:02 PM
 
I am in a position to purchase a Mac Pro but don't want to do so and then have new ones come out in 2 weeks... What does everybody think?
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Dec 25, 2006, 09:25 PM
 
I expect we'll see at least one dual quad (Clovertown) and a high definition DVD (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) drive in the near future... both are already shipping from other manufacturers. Also, a higher official memory capacity to match the Xserve (32G).
     
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Dec 25, 2006, 09:59 PM
 
At this point I would wait as it's not that far off, but as usual, if it's mission critical, get it now, you won't be displeased.
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Dec 26, 2006, 12:07 AM
 
I think I am in the market for an upgrade, I currently graduated from college and no longer need to be as moble. I currently have a 1.67 g4 powerbook and am looking to make an upgrade. I was originally thinking about picking up a 32-42" lcd HD TV, but I thought about the fact that I am working from 130pm-10pm. Basically all the good shows that I might watch, are going to be on during the time.
So I guess it would be a mac pro for me, with 24" dell because of all the input. This would hold me over till the summer, hopefully there will be more LCD HD TVs with 1080p in the market and driving down the price a bit.
     
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Dec 26, 2006, 03:00 AM
 
I think Apple will do one of two things:

Release new Mac Pro's at MacWorld with a single processor model at the bottom end (costing $1999) using the new QX to get quad core in a cheaper machine, and then the top of the line model's will be able to use the dual-dual core or be CTO-able to dual-quad core clovertowns. This seems feasable because the final G5 lineup was essentially setup this way.

They will wait until Leopard is released and introduce the next re-iteration of the Mac Pro in an entirely new design which will resemble the OS. These machines would probably come standard with dual-quad core clovertown's as Apple knows that anyone interested in getting a tower would probably pay even $2999+ for the next generation design.
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Dec 26, 2006, 05:09 AM
 
I sure hope its not upgraded. Got mine a week back and will be kicking myself if a single LGA775 socket one is released which takes standard DDR2-667 modules and not the ridiculously expensive FB-DIMMs.

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Dec 26, 2006, 10:27 AM
 
I'm more or less with mark: minor speedbump, likely including an 8 core model at the top. Wait for it, by all means, but it won't be spectacular.
     
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Dec 26, 2006, 11:26 AM
 
I do not consider a new chip architecture doubling the cores to be a "minor speedbump!" Substantially stronger towers (as regards handling graphics, see below) are IMO almost a sure thing for Mac Expo.

The hardware components for a strong new high end are out there and it is very logical, even necessary, for Apple to use them in a timely manner to offer a righteous high end tower to the growing world of folks dealing with image manipulation (still photos especially DSLR, video and games). As a DSLR photog and graphics person using Aperture and Photoshop I consider myself very much in that category.

Personally I am in the market for a new tower and am looking to see dual SLI graphics of some flavor, 32 GB addressable RAM and chips with quad cores on the upper part of the line. I expect to see quad cores and at least one more of those parameters upgraded at Mac Expo. Plus perhaps optional HD optical drives.

Intel's road map has been public for years and they have been beating their shipping estimates. Abbas, buying a new box 3 weeks before new boxes are expected at Mac Expo you should certainly be ready for new technology soon. Other than perhaps at the low end, don't expect new boxes to be crippled by a shift back to older less competent memory technology, however. Those (agreed, ridiculously expensive) FB-DIMMs in your excellent tower are a big part of what make it excellent. We just have to hope memory prices continue falling at a fast rate.

Note that I use the term "quad core" fairly loosely, basically referring to twice as many cores as present. We will see evolving sophistication of "quad" as time goes on.

- Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Dec 26, 2006 at 12:02 PM. )
     
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Dec 26, 2006, 12:33 PM
 
Here in Dubai, the Mac Pro 2.66GHz is about $600 more expensive than it is in the US and my brother is coming from the US this weekend. So I really didnt have much of an option as I dont have anybody else coming soon from the US.

Then again, the current 2.66GHz setup is pretty fast for me and coupled with an upgradeable graphics slot, I shouldnt be complaining for anything except those FB-DIMM prices.

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Dec 27, 2006, 08:28 AM
 
An eight-core Mac Pro is a possibility, but I actually think Apple will reserve it as an option alone -- at least some of the systems will still be quad-core only for the sake of price.
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Dec 27, 2006, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
I do not consider a new chip architecture doubling the cores to be a "minor speedbump!"
It's not a new chip architechture. It's the same "old" Woodcrest CPU, only two of them in each module, a so called DCM. I call it minor because you don't have to modify the motherboard to make it work - in fact, you can upgrade any current Mac Pro to an octo if you want to right now, by buying a new CPU for it.
     
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Dec 27, 2006, 01:22 PM
 
I don't know if apple is going to go for blu-ray so soon, It is not going to be around for as long as DVDs, I'm pretty sure the conclusion to all hard media isn't in the so- distant future. And Blu-Ray is damn expensive. I'd be surprized if Apple began including more than Hd Dvd by the end of this year.

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Dec 27, 2006, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
It's not a new chip architechture. It's the same "old" Woodcrest CPU, only two of them in each module, a so called DCM. I call it minor because you don't have to modify the motherboard to make it work - in fact, you can upgrade any current Mac Pro to an octo if you want to right now, by buying a new CPU for it.
Do the currently available quad-core processors not have Conroe cores, rather than the Woodcrest cores you mention?

So, will the new Mac Pro be given a quad version of the Woodcrest core? Or, is the current Conroe core just that; a quad version of the Woodcrest core?

onlyone-jc.
     
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Dec 27, 2006, 04:13 PM
 
Single C2D models around the $1750 to $2000 range would be nice.
     
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Dec 27, 2006, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
It's not a new chip architechture. It's the same "old" Woodcrest CPU, only two of them in each module, a so called DCM. I call it minor because you don't have to modify the motherboard to make it work - in fact, you can upgrade any current Mac Pro to an octo if you want to right now, by buying a new CPU for it.
My definition of "minor" refers to how much change in throughput will (with proper OS/apps) potentially be achievable by the new overall system architecture. A simple 20% increase in clock speed I would consider a minor speedbump. A doubling of cores IMO is not a minor speedbump, especially when combined with other possible changes.

In any event we will see in two weeks!

-Allen Wicks
     
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Dec 27, 2006, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
My definition of "minor" refers to how much change in throughput will (with proper OS/apps) potentially be achievable by the new overall system architecture. A simple 20% increase in clock speed I would consider a minor speedbump. A doubling of cores IMO is not a minor speedbump, especially when combined with other possible changes.

In any event we will see in two weeks!

-Allen Wicks
I do agree that there won't be much of a performance-increase in terms of "speed", but there will definitely be a dramatic performance-increase in terms of "capacity", as in the overall load (amount of simultaneously-running applications) that can be placed upon the processors.

Bring on MWSF 2007!

onlyone-jc.
     
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Dec 27, 2006, 10:46 PM
 
I do agree that there won't be much of a performance-increase in terms of "speed", but there will definitely be a dramatic performance-increase in terms of "capacity", as in the overall load (amount of simultaneously-running applications) that can be placed upon the processors.

I'll be happy when Adobe goes native Apple Intel, much less simultaneously-running applications on 8 processors.

Still, apps can't be coded that way on non-existant hardware and I do believe you can't have too much power in hardware so software manufacturers can dream up new things to code. Chicken / Egg kinda of thing.
     
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Dec 28, 2006, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by justinbaby View Post
I'll be happy when Adobe goes native Apple Intel
Do you think Adobe will code the entire Creative Suite for OS X in the progress of coding Photoshop for intel?

They've only ever offered the likes of Photoshop, After Effects, and maybe a few other things. The likes of Premiere, Encore, etc have only ever been Windows-only. Although there are better solutions for working with video and coding an interface to put it on to a DVD, it is nice to be able to instantly switch and transfer projects between each product in the suite.

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Dec 28, 2006, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by onlyone-jc View Post
Do the currently available quad-core processors not have Conroe cores, rather than the Woodcrest cores you mention?

So, will the new Mac Pro be given a quad version of the Woodcrest core? Or, is the current Conroe core just that; a quad version of the Woodcrest core?

onlyone-jc.
We're expeting the future Mac Pros to use Cloverton. Cloverton is a Dual Chip Module that equals 2 Woodcrests and some superglue, more or less. They're branded as the Xeon 5300 series and use the same socket as the Xeon 5100s (Woodcrest, current Mac Pro). There is also Kentsfield, currently branded as the QX6700, another DCM based on Conroe. That one uses socket 775, the socket used by Conroe (as well as some of the newer Pentium 4s and Pentium Ds) and wouldn't fit in the current Mac Pro.
     
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Dec 28, 2006, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by onlyone-jc View Post
Do you think Adobe will code the entire Creative Suite for OS X in the progress of coding Photoshop for intel?
Not in the process, no. Adobe has their hands full of getting CS3 out at the moment. Premiere isn't around anymore because FCP kills it, and even if Premiere had been better it's very hard to compete with the guys that make your host OS. Adobe might make more apps for OS X in the future, and the fact that they can reuse optimizations from the Windows side might help that, but they won't do it until CS3 is out. The fact that they had a public beta, something Adobe has very rarely (if ever) done in the past shows that they're anxious to get it out.
     
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Dec 28, 2006, 01:07 PM
 
Adobe might make more apps for OS X in the future, and the fact that they can reuse optimizations from the Windows side might help that, but they won't do it until CS3 is out. The fact that they had a public beta, something Adobe has very rarely (if ever) done in the past shows that they're anxious to get it out.

Not that you need my opinion but I agree completely.
     
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Dec 29, 2006, 12:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Adobe might make more apps for OS X in the future, and the fact that they can reuse optimizations from the Windows side might help that, but they won't do it until CS3 is out. The fact that they had a public beta, something Adobe has very rarely (if ever) done in the past shows that they're anxious to get it out.
I assume Adobe uses the same back-end image processing/manipulation code for Intel builds on Windows and OSX... only the front-end GUI code would need to be different.
     
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Dec 29, 2006, 06:47 AM
 
I doubt they'll release new mac pros, maybe the 8-core, but even that I doubt...
I suppose the surprise will be mostly software and some gadgets (the iPhone or some other thing)

Summing up, I have no clue, and we'll have to wait 'till the 8th
     
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Dec 29, 2006, 10:48 PM
 
I wouldn't wait if there are "quad cores" that come out since already you can pop out the old chip and replace it with clovertown chip. The reason I would wait is that there may be a better selection of video cards ( at the same price as the 7300 gt).

As for the clovertown chip- the os wont feel any faster than the 2.66 even in 98% of your apps. I think that only (as of now ) Photoshop is the only app that can take advantage of the additional cores and even there its only in some of the effects.
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Dec 30, 2006, 12:31 AM
 
Im dumping my mini in lew of whats gonna happen at macworld.. im thinking core 2 in the mini and 8 cores in the mac pro
     
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Dec 30, 2006, 02:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by tkmd View Post
As for the clovertown chip- the os wont feel any faster than the 2.66 even in 98% of your apps. I think that only (as of now ) Photoshop is the only app that can take advantage of the additional cores and even there its only in some of the effects.
That's a silly point of view. No app distinguishes between 4 cores and 8. Either they're multi-threaded or they're not (and many are at this point). Plus even if they're not, you can still run twice as many different tasks at once if you have twice the number of cores. The question is personal: do you ever feel the need to run more than 4 things at once?
     
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Dec 30, 2006, 08:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by brokecollegestudentF04 View Post
Im dumping my mini in lew of whats gonna happen at macworld.. im thinking core 2 in the mini and 8 cores in the mac pro
Wouldn't it be nice if they did a new Mac Mini with a quad-Conroe chip? You never know with Apple. Steve Jobs has the habbit of unveiling exactly what you don't expect, but exactly what you love Apple for.

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Dec 30, 2006, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by onlyone-jc View Post
Wouldn't it be nice if they did a new Mac Mini with a quad-Conroe chip? You never know with Apple. Steve Jobs has the habbit of unveiling exactly what you don't expect, but exactly what you love Apple for.

onlyone-jc.
Yes, but not that one. The TDP (as in, the amount of heat you must be able to cool away per second) for Kentsfield (Quad-Conroe) is 130 W. The TDP for the Yonah (Core Duo) currently in the Mac mini maxes out at 31 W, and that's at the top speed of 2.33 GHz. Apple isn't running it at anything close to that. The only way to cool away that kind of heat would be to install the mother of all fans into it, and Apple likes them cool and quiet. I'm of the opinion that the iMac can take a regular Conroe (TDP 65 W) over its current Merom (TDP 35 W) but it seems a lot of people on this forum disagree on that one as well.
     
   
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