[thecokebadger]

I have a B&W G3 300mhz Rev 1 and I'm looking into upgrading. Here are a couple questions:
Would a G4 Yikes, Sawtooth or Gigabit logic board fit in the B&W G3 case?
Would the B&W G3 power supply be compatible with one of those G4 boards?
Would a G4 power supply fit in the B&W G3 case?
Is there a site somewhere that list the Video Cards compatible with the G3 PCI or the G4 AGP?
Could i get any 2x or 4x AGP from ati or nvidia to work with the G4 boards or do they have to be "mac certified" (as in publicly issued compatible with macs)

I have more questions to come, but lets start with theses ones. Any help would be very much appreciated.

[bowwowman]

Originally Posted by thecokebadger 

I have a B&W G3 300mhz Rev 1 and I'm looking into upgrading. Here are a couple questions:
Would a G4 Yikes, Sawtooth or Gigabit logic board fit in the B&W G3 case?
Would the B&W G3 power supply be compatible with one of those G4 boards?
Would a G4 power supply fit in the B&W G3 case?
Is there a site somewhere that list the Video Cards compatible with the G3 PCI or the G4 AGP?
Could i get any 2x or 4x AGP from ati or nvidia to work with the G4 boards or do they have to be "mac certified" (as in publicly issued compatible with macs)

I have more questions to come, but lets start with theses ones. Any help would be very much appreciated.

A) Yikes mobo IS a b&w mobo, but with a G4 cpu.........Sawtooth practically identical, but will still fit

B) Not 100% sure about the power supplies, but they are really close in wattage and physical size, so good possibilities there

C) Video cards have to have mac ROM's, or have the ROM flashed from x86 to mac. G3-compatible PCI cards include the Rage128, Radeon 7000, and Radeon 9200, and a few low-end nVidia ones. G4 cards include the nVidia GF 2 & 3 series, and several of the Radeons (8500, 9000, 9800).

Website info lookie here: Accelerate Your Macintosh! News Page - 1/26/07. check their database for 1000's of user reports...........

but FYI, if you really want to end up with a G4 tower anyway, why not just get one thats already whole, part out your B&W, & save yourself alot of time, effort (& money) ?

Unless you're just doing this as a hobby and/or to gain mac modding experience, which is cool too

[GTRImac]

Originally Posted by thecokebadger 

I have a B&W G3 300mhz Rev 1 and I'm looking into upgrading. Here are a couple questions:
Would a G4 Yikes, Sawtooth or Gigabit logic board fit in the B&W G3 case?
Would the B&W G3 power supply be compatible with one of those G4 boards?
Would a G4 power supply fit in the B&W G3 case?
Is there a site somewhere that list the Video Cards compatible with the G3 PCI or the G4 AGP?
Could i get any 2x or 4x AGP from ati or nvidia to work with the G4 boards or do they have to be "mac certified" (as in publicly issued compatible with macs)

I have more questions to come, but lets start with theses ones. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Hi, I have a ATI 7000 PCI card for sale. $25 + shipping.

Mark

[thecokebadger]

Bowwowman
Well, I'm just getting back into Macs for the first time since 2001. I just recently acquired a G4 logic board for really cheap, and I don't have the money now to complete upgrade everything. By the summer, I want to have a new CPU, (and now with the G4 logic board, I have the option to go dual) new video card, RAM and Harddrive. For harddrive, I'm going external for portability reasons and size restrictions. I want a decent video card that can run dual monitors. And CPU will all depend on how much disposable income I have at the time. This is why I wanted to know about the power supply as well. I want to know if i need to upgrade that as well. I don't care much for the old B&W G3 case but I care more about functionality.

Does anyone else know for sure about the difference in power supplies?

Now for RAM, Can you use any PC100 or PC133 168-pin ram?

[OreoCookie]

Just a quick reminder: you should make a list of your upgrades and calculate the costs before buying anything. Upgrading a machine that old is usually not worth it.

If you really want to upgrade, I guess it's cheaper to change the whole machine rather than just the motherboard. But keep in mind that you can get used minis, PowerMacs and iMacs for very little these days.

[bowwowman]

Originally Posted by thecokebadger 

Bowwowman
Well, I'm just getting back into Macs for the first time since 2001. I just recently acquired a G4 logic board for really cheap, and I don't have the money now to complete upgrade everything. By the summer, I want to have a new CPU, (and now with the G4 logic board, I have the option to go dual) new video card, RAM and Harddrive. For harddrive, I'm going external for portability reasons and size restrictions. I want a decent video card that can run dual monitors. And CPU will all depend on how much disposable income I have at the time. This is why I wanted to know about the power supply as well. I want to know if i need to upgrade that as well. I don't care much for the old B&W G3 case but I care more about functionality.

Does anyone else know for sure about the difference in power supplies?

Now for RAM, Can you use any PC100 or PC133 168-pin ram?

Ok, I understand your situation, having been there & done that

However, from a cost standpoint of all the components you want/need, you WILL end up spending alot more money buying them individually rather than a whole machine, as well as end up with a "FrankenMac"

so lets do the math (average ebay prices, could be more):

A) G4 CPU: SP/450 ~$20 or DP/450 ~$50
B) AGP Radeon 8500/9000: ~$40, or $100 for a 9800
C) 512mb/PC100/133 Ram = ~$30 each x 4 to max it out =$120
D) G4 PSU ~ $25

With just these 4 items alone you're already at or well above $100, not to mention your time & labor.

You could make approx $50-100 from selling your B&W parts and the G4 mobo, and put that money towards a complete Sawtooth, which can be found on ebay/craigslist/here in the marketplace nowadays for ~$125-200.

ie.....http://forums.macnn.com/59/marketpla...s-powermac-g4s

My personal example....... In Nov 06, I parted out a DP/450 Sawtooth (except for 1GB of ram & my 2 SATA HD's). I got $225 for all the parts & pieces. I used that money to buy a QS 867 for $300, and sold the 2 HD's out of it for $60, therefore my net cost was $15.00..... for a newer machine, with a faster mobo, better video card, Superdrive, and a few other goodies that I didnt have before

just somethings for you to consider

oh and BTW, yes you can use most PC 100/133 in a Sawtooth, but it HAS to be the low-density type, meaning it will have chips on BOTH sides of the circuit board

[thecokebadger]

Bowwowman,
I see your point. I've now started looking locally for a G4 powermac and have found a few possible leads. I also have a potential buyer for my G3 after I install the new G4 mobo (hoping that it works fine).

Now, about the video card. Could i get any of those cards that you listed and then just flash them with the Apple ROM? Where can i obtain a Apple roms? Do the vendor websites carry them? I don't need an ADC port. What would you recommend for running a dual monitor setup? Is there a good card that supports two monitors, or would you recommend getting 2 separate cards? I won't be gaming so i just a need a card powerful enough to run 20" widescreen LCDs (native 1680x1050)

Back to the power supply, apparently, there's a 20 pin and a 22 pin connector for the G4s, but i can't find a website that gives me a straight answer. Do you know which G4 logic board has requires which one? I assume the Yikes in the 20, but what about the sawtooth or the gigabit?

Thanks again for your help so far.

[bowwowman]

Originally Posted by thecokebadger 

Bowwowman,
I see your point.

Now, about the video card. Could i get any of those cards that you listed and then just flash them with the Apple ROM? Where can i obtain a Apple roms? Do the vendor websites carry them? I don't need an ADC port. What would you recommend for running a dual monitor setup? Is there a good card that supports two monitors, or would you recommend getting 2 separate cards? I won't be gaming so i just a need a card powerful enough to run 20" widescreen LCDs (native 1680x1050)

Thanks again for your help so far.

All those cards I listed before are available as Mac versions, although they are somewhat more expensive than the peecee models.

For the B&W, GTRImac said he had a PCI 7000 @$25. While not that great of a card in general, it does have both VGA & DVI outputs. However it only has 32mb of vram, which would be divided between the 2 monitors, eliminating the benifits of Quartz extreme accelleration and GUI-effects offloading from the CPU to the GPU...... If you can find a 9200 at a reasonable price, get it!
I had one in my B&W and it was way way better than the 7000 it replaced

The best price/performance AGP/G4 card is by far the 8500/64mb. QE works very well and is actually faster than the 9000's.

As for flashing peecee cards, their is a website called strangedogs.com that does the flashing and sells them too. However, I have read some negative reports about them from time to time, so be cautious if you decide to go that route......do a google search for other resources of ROMs and such

Sorry but I never really dealt much w/ the PSU's, beyond blowing the dust out of them

[thecokebadger]

Bowwowman,
You been very helpful so far, I just a couple more questions. I know you can pretty much use any hdd, (baring the 128gb barrier or going external or pci), is it the same for optical drives? I want a dvd burner which are fairly cheap these days. Would I have to update the firmware for it to run on a mac?
About the videocards, I was looking at the 9800. I couldn't find a 8500 anywhere for purchase, and the 9200 is pci (I'd prefer an agp to keep the pci slot free and with all the troubles I've read that people have with QE) what do you think? Do you know about QE performance with 9800?

I've pretty much got everything picked out and now its saving money time.

This link maybe useful to anyone wanting to upgrade like me and want to make sure they know what the difference between the G4 models
Power Mac G4: How to Differentiate Between Models

I just called a local apple reseller store, and the tech told me that the G4 motherboard would not be compatible with the G3 B&W (but he didn't sound to reassuring, especially when i dropped the name sawtooth). I think the only issue would be the power supply. Does anyone else know?

[BigBadBiologist]

The yikes (PCI g4) and sawtooth power supplies seem to be compatible based on this:
OutOfSpec.COM - Cut the red wire or the green one?!

Since the g3 b/w and the yikes are supposedly the same mobo, it may work. As far as physically fitting into the case, I have no idea.

The (flashed) 9800 pros are the best cards for the lowend g4 systems IMO. They are relatively cheap and have decent 3d performance and QE support.

[thecokebadger]

With that link from BigBadBiologist, and some further research, I found out that The sawtooth and lower models require the 20 pin power supply and the Gigabit and above need the 22 pin. Now i need to find me a 22 pin power supply.

[bowwowman]

Originally Posted by thecokebadger 

Bowwowman,
You been very helpful so far, I just a couple more questions. I know you can pretty much use any hdd, (baring the 128gb barrier or going external or pci), is it the same for optical drives? I want a dvd burner which are fairly cheap these days. Would I have to update the firmware for it to run on a mac?
About the videocards, I was looking at the 9800. I couldn't find a 8500 anywhere for purchase, and the 9200 is pci (I'd prefer an agp to keep the pci slot free and with all the troubles I've read that people have with QE) what do you think? Do you know about QE performance with 9800?

I've pretty much got everything picked out and now its saving money time.

This link maybe useful to anyone wanting to upgrade like me and want to make sure they know what the difference between the G4 models
Power Mac G4: How to Differentiate Between Models

I just called a local apple reseller store, and the tech told me that the G4 motherboard would not be compatible with the G3 B&W (but he didn't sound to reassuring, especially when i dropped the name sawtooth). I think the only issue would be the power supply. Does anyone else know?

Yep the 9800 is a great card, but a real Mac version is mucho $$. I have a flashed peecee unit in my QS, which I got for $75, and it is great ! I used it in my ST too, notta problemo, prior to buying the QS

As for optical drives, check the huge database over at Accelerate Your Macintosh! News Page - 1/30/07. Most Pioneer and several Sony's work just fine, but there are 2 or 3 model #'s that wont.

Some other brands may or may not work, but the real trick is identifying the REAL mfgr of the mechanism inside the drive, as opposed to the seller's brand name on the outside. ie.....NEC, Hitachi, and Toshiba make alot of OEM drives for other companies that just stick their names on the faceplate and boxes.......

And there is a driver called "Patchburn" that allows some drives that normally are not compatible to work also.

Updating the firmware is normally not needed on compatible drives, except to enable faster burning speeds.....

[thecokebadger]

Once again, bowwowman, you've been a great help. I'm about to let this thread die. My next adventure will be finding a soundcard to fit my soon-to-be home studio needs.

[bowwowman]

Glad to help, good luck your projects

[SierraDragon]

I agree with OreoCookie: don't waste your time and money upgrading G3 hardware. The OS and apps have moved far ahead!

Unresolvable RAM limitations and the fact that many new apps/versions will not run well on old boxes make such boxes terrible for moving forward. IMO investing in complicated upgrades just does not make sense.

-Allen Wicks

[BigBadBiologist]

Investing in complicated upgrades is what being an enthusiast is all about. Could I have gotten rid of my Sawtooth after getting a MBP? Hell yeah, but I love that machine!

[jrlamont]

I received a free 350 Yikes, need to use it until funds available for Imac dual core. Have a bunch of drives for it, and have located a mac compatible PCI wireless card.

It looks like G4 upgrades would be too expensive, and I am unlikely to upgrade the drive controller and will stay at the ATA33 for now, with 7200 RPM drives. Have 1 gig ram in it, and it runs X 10.3 very well.

Considering upgrade to video card though, and I am stuck with PCI, no AGP. Who had the radeon 7000 for sale/trade?

any other opinions are welcome, I am not planning to get another machine until imac or macbook pro though, later this summer.

Thanks in advance.

J

[jrlamont]

I have a line on a flashed 64meg Radeon 7000, Mac 9200 is $120, this flashed PC is $20. Would the faster card be worth the dough in a Yikes, with all its bottlenecks?
Also can find a Mac Edition 7000 for under $50, no 8500 cards to be found so far.
Yikes!

[BigBadBiologist]

I think I have a flashed 7000 PCI around. I could give it to you for $25 if you want. PM me if interested and I'll get you exact specs.