[gio.vanni]

I just purchased a used Powermac Dual 1Ghz G4 [Mirrored door version.) The guy who I bought it from used it to edit one movie then put it back in the box for 2 years. It was practically brand new but I am having a couple problems:

1. After being on for about 30 minutes it will come up with an error message telling me I need to restart the computer. I am thinking it has to do with the logic board battery so I took it out and will hopefully be able to pick one up somewhere in NYC today. Is this the actual problem? It has been sitting for 2 years so I am thinking it makes sense. If the battery is not what's causing that problem, then what is?

2. I have three drives in there. How do I take out the main drive chassis? One of the drives failed so I just disconnected it and installed the third drive in the second chassis underneath the processors. I would really like to just remove the failed drive and put the good drive in it's place. Call it OCD but I want the internals neat and clean.

3. Any other tips to have this beast running as solid as possible. I am going to be running a ProTools TDM system on it so it needs to be as stable as possible.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Big Mac]

The message you're seeing is a kernel panic. The causes vary, but no, it's most likely not a problem that can be fixed by changing out the logic board battery.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, so what do I do to go about fixing this? I need this thing to be up and running. All my other Macs I have left on for months at a time without any problems.

[imitchellg5]

I bought a Power Mac G4 that had been sitting for several years. When I replaced the PRAM battery, some kernel panics went away. Try making sure that all of the RAM is properly seated.

[mfbernstein]

Is there any sort of pattern to the kernel panics? Standard operating procedure is to disconnect all extraneous hardware, run the Apple Hardware Test (off the CD that shipped with the machine), and if that doesn't show anything, do a memory test (memtest if a good choice). Under some circumstances, kernel panics may result from a corrupted OS installation and/or misbehaving drivers (especially third party ones), so an OS reinstall (perhaps on one of the alternate drives?) is also a candidate.

[gio.vanni]

Hey mfb. Thanks for the reply. The machine had 10.2 on it so I upgraded it to 10.4. There isn't anything on there that I care about so I am going to just wipe every drive and re-install the OS from scratch.

I ran the hardware test disc and everything came back perfect after I took out that faulty drive. The only drivers I installed were for my mobile Focusrite Saffire recording interface so that could possibly be doing something. I will just wipe the drives and start from scratch.

Another thing is when I p;ug in this external USB drive that I have it doesn't even recognize it. Any thoughts? Thanks for the info guys.

[Mac Write]

Make sure the drives are connected to the end of the IDE cable for proper termination.

[gio.vanni]

Hey Mac, thanks for the reply. What does that mean? When i get in from work tonight I am going to give this thing a complete running through.

Just wondering but do you guys think I have to change the Logic Board Battery like I was saying? Is 2 years dormant enough to ruin the battery?

Any other info to help me out tonight would be cool.

[chris v]

Yes, after sitting for two years, I'd change the battery, regardless of whether it was causing the kernel panics. I've had to replace them in a couple of machines that sat for a few months, at most.

[gio.vanni]

Hey chris, I am going to go to an official Mac dealer tomorrow and pick one up.

This is what I did tonight. I unplugged everything and I installed all three drives. The Mac is recognizing them all. I erased all three and re-installed OSX onto the 80gig drive. Everything went fine. I get back into the OS and not even 10 minutes in I get the stupid kernel message again! What the hell could be the problem here?

[seanc]

Have you added any RAM to this machine?

[gio.vanni]

Nope, it wasw already installed. 1.75 gigs worth. Not sure where the dude got it or who installed it but I am guessing it was from the factory. I have some good news though. I ran the hardware test again after getting the kernel error last night. Everything was good. Gave it a restart this morning and I haven't gotten one since. Is this normal? Can I expect it to be stable now? Thanks again guys for all the help.

[SSharon]

fwiw I left my MDD in a box from January to August last year with no ill effects.

[gio.vanni]

Yeah this is very odd. Everything is stable now it seems and it's even recognizing my external USB drive which it wasn't doing before the erase of all three drives and the fresh install. One more question:

My third hard drive is saying: S.M.A.R.T. Status: Failing and telling me to replace it. BUT, I can still transfer info to and from the drive with absolutely no problems. Should I just chuck the thing? I would like to salvage it if I can since it's a 120gig drive.

[gio.vanni]

I guess I spoke too soon. I just got the kernel message again! Ahhhhh What the hell could the problem be?

[seanc]

No, you can't just expect it to be ok.

Because you said there's 1.75gb i'm guessing the RAM config is 512, 512, 512, 256.

Take it down to 512 and see how it behaves, then add RAM and test, then add more etc. Eventually it will hopefully panic and you can identify a bad RAM module.

[gio.vanni]

The problem now, I can't even reinstall OSX! I cleared both drives again and wanted to install OSX on the 200 gig drive to see if that was the problem. It gave me an error while installling. I then tried to install back onto the 80 gig drive and it gave me the same error 3 times! Now I don't even have OSX on there damn it! What do I do, this is driving me nuts. I have had nothing but positive experiences with Macs since starting my audio career back in '97. Ahh what a bummer.

[seanc]

Like I said, change the RAM about.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, I dropped down to 512 megs (1 Module) and am now trying to re-install the OS and see how it goes. Will I ever get this thing stable?

[seanc]

Hopefully. Good luck

[gio.vanni]

Ok, after testing all 4 modules I came down to one faulty, it seems. I don't really know what I'm doing but when I was down to the one module I stated above, I still couldn't install the OS, it would hang at the "Installing Base System 1" or whatever. So I shut down, took out that module and put in another... the OS installed fine. I then put in the other two (one at a time) and viola, still running good. Installed Cubase and the Focusrite Saffire drivers and still all is good. It seems the faulty HD and the faulty Centon 512 RAM module were to blame for this aggravation. Or so I am hoping.

I am now connecting the external USB drive I have all my session files on and transferring them over to my second drive. Let's all hope everything goes well.

[seanc]

Glad it finally seems to be working

[gio.vanni]

Yup, Cubase is running fine. I did however test a DVD (Futurama of course and it kept crashing a few minutes in. That was kind of odd. Other than that, it seems to be pretty stable.

You guys are awesome.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, I've left it on for a few days now just to get everything going. Well it's mostly been sleeping but I wanted to make sure everything is ok. It's given me the kluster message only 2 times since. Both when having the screen saver on. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Other than that it is running solid even with quite a few applications open. Thanks again for the info.

[imitchellg5]

Take the HD that failed SMART verification out.

[gio.vanni]

Thanks for the reply. I did, it's been out for a while now. That and the one RAM module that seemed like it was causing problems. Any other thoughts?

[imitchellg5]

Oh I must have missed that. See if the video card is seated properly. Video cards can cause kernel panics as well. I had to replace the video card in my G4.

[gio.vanni]

Damn, I would hope it isn't the video card as the one in there is more than enough for what I need. I'll check it later tonight to see if it's out of place.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, well without even checking the video card out I finally had time to give this Mac a thorough run through in a studio environment. It held up extremely well. No errors, no quitting apps, my Saffire was acting a little funny but that has more to do with the drivers than my computer. I finished off the night of music production and recording with watching a DVD on it and it held up perfectly. Can I now assume that everything is OK? If so I will be buying another RAM Module, another Hard Drive and an Airport car all of which I will install. After that, this thing should be ready for a ProTools system. Any last thoughts?

[gio.vanni]

Anyone on this one?

[imitchellg5]

It sounds fine then. The thing with kernel panics though is that they can strike at a really wierd time... for instance I'll spend an entire day editing in Final Cut then I'll be browsing the internet for a while and all the sudden there is a kernel panic. But it does sound good though.

[gio.vanni]

Ok good, I just need some peace of mind on this thing. I have spent countless hours (that I don't have) tinkering in there and now everything finally, I HOPE, seems stable. The kicker, I have an offer on this thing for $100 more than what I payed for it and now that I saw what it was capable of, I told the guy I would decide and get back to him Sunday. What would you guys do? Sell it and make $100 and buy a Mac Mini or something along those lines or keep it and run with it? I gotta admit, I love the fact that I have room to expand with this not to mention I can use it to run a ProTools Mix system. What would you do?

As always, thanks for the reply.

[Mac Write]

Mac mini would be limited by the slow notebook HD, but kill the G4 in pure CPU tasks. You could always add an external FW400/USB2 7.2K HD. The iMac would be faster (since it's Core 2 Duo), along with a full size HD vs. the Mac mini's notebook HD. The speed improvement on either the Mac min or iMac would be very noticeable in audio editing from my understanding. Of course my own test was G4 MDD DP 1.25GHZ to my moms Macbook and I didn't notice a increase (esp. in WoW). Of course now on my Mac Pro Aperture and WoW are extremely fast but still day to day tasks seem the same.

[gio.vanni]

Yeah, and the iMacs and Minis don't do PCI. A TDM/Mix/HD ProTools system needs it. If I do truly decide to go down that road then I will keep the Powermac. I know plenty of professional recording studios that still run Powermac Mirrored and Quicksilvers. And dual monitors are pretty sweet. I hate decisions.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, sorry to revive an old thread but I am still having some problems. I gave the Powermac another run through in the studio. First let me start by saying I installed an Airport card and everythign was going absolutely great for a few hours. I then sparked up some productions and recording programs and things were going good again. Then, boom... Cubase closes out of nowhere. Alrighty. It happens. Then my recording interfaces control panel software closes out of the blue.. again ok. Then about 10 minutes later *drum roll please* the dreaded crappy ass kernel error! I got pissed and just turned the damn thing off and haven't turned it back on since. I mean.. this thing is powerful. I was trying HARD to bog down the CPU with soft synth, samplers, and recording programs to no avail. I WANT to keep it. What the hell could the problem be? Is it the start of another bad RAM module? All I know is the kernel messages are few and far between now but they are still there. I can't have my programs quiting and kernel messages poping up in the middle of a damn session. That just won't work out. Please try to help me keep this damn thing.

[chris v]

My Quicksilver gets unstable when it gets too hot. Make sure all the fans are operating properly -- it turned out that the fan inside the power supply on mine had given up the ghost. All the computer people I talked to told me I'd have to replace the entire PSU, and the fan wasn't "user serviceable," but I managed to yank it and find a comparable used fan at the local electronic repair shop for $10.00.

And yes, it could still be bad RAM. Download Memtest, print out the read me, and follow the directions. It's more thorough than the Apple HW test. 3 loops could take 6 or 8 hours, though, so set it overnight and check it in the morning, perhaps. The last time I had a faulty stick though, it found it in 30 seconds, so you never know.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Mac Write 

Mac mini would be limited by the slow notebook HD, but kill the G4 in pure CPU tasks.

I absolutely would not use a Mini for audio tasks. Too much reading from/writing to the disk for audio. Even with a FW 400 enclosure, you'd still bog down at 16-18 tracks of aiff audio files, from my experience. Something with an SATA bus & a 7200 RPM drive, or drives, will be what you need.

[gio.vanni]

Hey thanks for the reply. I will do what you recommended as soon as I get in.

I've gotten my share of work done on a ProTools LE system running on an iMac G5 that was rediculously rock solid. I should have never sold that damn thing. BUT, I am not losing hope on this Powermac. I got a damn good deal on it and it is running what I need with ease. Plus there is room for upgrade to some serious ProTools systems. I am going to run those tests when I get in and see if my fans are cooked. Is there any way to ADD cooling to it to ensure that is not an issue?

[chris v]

For what it's worth, if it turns out the mobo is at fault ultimately, you can get into a G5 dual 1.0 or 2.0 for between 1200 & 1500 bucks, if you shop around, and will basically stomp the G4 at audio work. I went from a Quicksilver dual 1.0 to a G5 dual 2.0 with Logic Pro, and saw about a 4x speed increase. Basically, a song that would occasionally max out my G4 barely pushes 25% of CPU on my G5.

[Todd Madson]

S.M.A.R.T. status = failing means you have one more or more drives that are failing.

Therefore, some of the kernel panics are traceable to that.

[Kenneth]

My school runs Pro Tools 6.9.x on a G4/733 Quicksilver with 512MB RAM.

[gio.vanni]

Originally Posted by chris v 

For what it's worth, if it turns out the mobo is at fault ultimately, you can get into a G5 dual 1.0 or 2.0 for between 1200 & 1500 bucks, if you shop around, and will basically stomp the G4 at audio work. I went from a Quicksilver dual 1.0 to a G5 dual 2.0 with Logic Pro, and saw about a 4x speed increase. Basically, a song that would occasionally max out my G4 barely pushes 25% of CPU on my G5.

But see, the thing is I have more than enough hardware synths and samplers to take care of those tasks. I am using this dual G4 for Reaktor 5 and Cubase just until I round up the cash for a ProTools TDM system which this will handle beutifully if I can get it stable enough. As I said earlier, I know MANY professional recording studios still running ProTools TDM and even HD systems on Mirrored Door G4s without a hitch. The power is not the problem... the stability on the other hand is. Still haven't made it home yet to run those tests but I am hoping I can get to the bottom of the problem as this thing will incorporate perfectly into my current studio set-up.

Originally Posted by Todd Madson 

S.M.A.R.T. status = failing means you have one more or more drives that are failing.

Therefore, some of the kernel panics are traceable to that.

I took the failing drive completely out along with the one stick of RAM that seemed like it was giving me problems.

Any more info on how to get this thing stable would be great. As always, I thank all of you for the input and help.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, I got rid of it... I just couldn't take it anymore. I don't have the time nor the patients to deal with it. I got rid of it for cheap and concidering the specs, the guy I sold it to will get the best of it I'm sure.

Anyway, I have since then picked myself up a Quicksilver that I found on eBay from a reputable company with a 30 day warranty... so this time, if anything is wrong within 30 days, they will refund my money... I am really hoping that I don't run into any problems. Here is the auction I won:

eBay: Apple Power Mac G4 800x2 Dual Pro. Computer (item 160121173495 end time May-25-07 14:32:44 PDT)

Powermac G4 Dual 800mhz, 80gig HD, 768Mb RAM, ComboDrive.

It is a step down in specs but it is less than half of what I payed for the one I just sold. And honestly, I don't need much power as it is being used as a DAW only as all other tasks are taken care of by hardware in my studio.

Now I have tweo questions. 1.) Can anyone lead me in the direction of a place where i can purchase a decondary HD for this Quicksilver? I am not very good with all these specs and different HD types. I am looking for a cheap 80 - 160gb HD. Just to use as the drive that I record directly to instead of tying up my boot drive. If I am not mistaken, these Quicksilvers take SCSI drives?

2.) Is this particular model Dual monitor capable? I believe the one I bought has the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX with TwinView and 64MB of SDRAM5
card installed but I am not sure waht work that company did to it specifically.

That's all. Crossing my fingers that this Quicksilver is rock solid.

[seanc]

Quicksilvers use generic ATA drives, the same type that the MDD uses I think.

For reference, the RAM used in a Quicksilver is PC133 SDRAM.

The graphics card you have in there has 1xVGA port and 1xADC port. The ADC port is only for use with Apples old style cinema displays. You should look for a cheap Mac compatible PCI card to use as a 2nd one (because your 1 AGP slot is used by your current graphics card). Bear in mind that a cheapo one has most likely been pulled from an old B&W G3 or something and won't support core image so everything will lag like hell.

[angelmb]

Mactracker says 800 Dual doesn't support large drives, so 128 GB is the farthest you can go per drive, not an issue since you are talking about getting a relatively small hard disk as second unit… maybe that is the reason the QS you won comes with a SCSI card… you want to know which model that SCSI card is, so you would know if it is possible to add an internal SCSI drive or maybe the SCSI card is there aimed 'only' for plug external SCSI devices.

macsales dot com is a great place where to get RAM, hard drives, Mac graphic cards…

[gio.vanni]

Thanks for the replys guys.

sean, can't I just get an ADC to VGA adapter? Honestly, i am not looking to do dual monitors for quite some time since this Mac isn't going to have a heavy load. So it really isn't that big of a deal right now.

angel, yeah a 100gig drive should do me fine. I'll just back-up projects to burnable discs as I finish them and clear them from the second drive.

Thanks again guys... hopefully my next post will be something along these lines: "This Quicksilver is rock solid! Woohoo!"

[seanc]

Maybe you can. I checked out eBay, the only thing I found was eBay.co.uk: Gefen ADC to VGA Adapter VGA to G4 G5 MAC ADA-ADC-2-VGA (item 330115361651 end time 31-May-07 02:50:34 BST)

[chris v]

ADC to VGA and ADC to DVI adaptors are cheap and plentiful, compared to another video card. I use them on 2 machines, with no probs. The GeForce 2 is not a great video card, but it should support two displays just fine.

[gio.vanni]

Ok, the new Quicksilver is almost here. Problem, I just realized that it only comes with a CDRW drive and not even a Combo drive. How the hell am I going to upgrade the 10.2 OS (which is currently installed on it) to 10.4 which I need for the audio interface I am using? I actually have the official OsX 10.4 disc but it's a DVD. How would I go about upgrading? Or is it worth it just to take out the internal zip (which I will probably never use) and just replace it with a cheap ass DVD drive. If so, which one will fit? Any help again is appreciated ahead of time.

[seanc]

The space for the zip drive is only 3.5" wide, so the DVD drive wouldn't fit in there.

You could just take out the CDRW and put a DVD drive in there temporarily (it's not that difficult), or even balance the DVD drive outside the case for the installation.